Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
I believe the Colorado movie theater shooter had a guilty by reason of insanity defense but most don't.
If people are saying mental illness caused the Georgia killing, you can easily refute this by pointing out plenty of certified mentally ill people never engage in this type of behavior. Mental illness isn't the cause bc if it were, every time we have a certified illness, that should lead to mass killings. Plenty of sex addicts go on living normal lives. To say Georgia killing was mental is a red herring.
This is the dumbest comment on this entire thread.
Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
No stats, but if you look at high profile individual cases, there is often documented evidence of mental illness. Documented evidence in the Newtown and Parkland shootings, for example.
For the statement in bold, I didn't say otherwise. Please take a course in logic.
I am arguing logic.
No, you are not. Rewrite that as "Plenty of racist people do not engage in mass killings." Do you think that means racism was not the cause? If you don't, then you see what's wrong with you wrote.
Someone who targets 3 Asian businesses is not racially profiling? They weren't side by side by side. From what I heard, he drove nearly an hour (?) to get to the next target. That sounds like premeditation.
Maybe, but that isn't a logical argument. Like I said, take course.
If you argue mental illness as a cause in court, I am pretty sure you'll lose.
Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
No stats, but if you look at high profile individual cases, there is often documented evidence of mental illness. Documented evidence in the Newtown and Parkland shootings, for example.
For the statement in bold, I didn't say otherwise. Please take a course in logic.
I am arguing logic.
No, you are not. Rewrite that as "Plenty of racist people do not engage in mass killings." Do you think that means racism was not the cause? If you don't, then you see what's wrong with you wrote.
Someone who targets 3 Asian businesses is not racially profiling? They weren't side by side by side. From what I heard, he drove nearly an hour (?) to get to the next target. That sounds like premeditation.
Maybe, but that isn't a logical argument. Like I said, take course.
If you argue mental illness as a cause in court, I am pretty sure you'll lose.
Mental illness is not a legal defense. Insanity is, but the legal definition of insanity is not knowing right from wrong. Almost all mentally ill people do know right from wrong, so they are still legally responsible for their actions. This perpetrator does not appear to be legally insane and I don't think anybody said he was.
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to wade to far into the specific debate going on in this particular thread, but I think this piece on the history of fetishization of "Asian" women (in quotes, because "Asian" is such a broad, ill-defined term when people I think mean by it "Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Japanese origin women who are petite and relatively light-skinned") is relevant: https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
Maybe the mass murderer was a mentally ill sex-addict. Why he thought that the best way to deal with his addiction was to kill people and why he associated his specific victims with his addiction cannot possibly be disentangled from the history of sexual fetishization of women from certain parts of the Asian continent and the view of them as being simultaneously subservient and hyper-sexual.
I did not find this article helpful to figuring out if this was a hate crime or a mental health issue. There are few types of businesses in the U.S. that have sexual services as a side service. Of the ones that are, a large number are Asian staffed and likely Asian run. If someone wants that service, it's not necessarily because they fetishize Asian women, though that might be true for some customers. It could be because that's who offers the service. If you don't like the association, take it up with the business owners and local governments to stop the practice and stop trafficking. At least some of the trafficking starts in Asia.
Whoosh! The words, "cannot possibly be disentangled" have a plain meaning. Perhaps you may find a dictionary useful: https://www.dictionary.com/
Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
No stats, but if you look at high profile individual cases, there is often documented evidence of mental illness. Documented evidence in the Newtown and Parkland shootings, for example.
For the statement in bold, I didn't say otherwise. Please take a course in logic.
I am arguing logic.
No, you are not. Rewrite that as "Plenty of racist people do not engage in mass killings." Do you think that means racism was not the cause? If you don't, then you see what's wrong with you wrote.
Someone who targets 3 Asian businesses is not racially profiling? They weren't side by side by side. From what I heard, he drove nearly an hour (?) to get to the next target. That sounds like premeditation.
Maybe, but that isn't a logical argument. Like I said, take course.
Not every racist kills, true. You need to refine the class of racists who target 3 Asian businesses. Refine that further with 6 out of 8 killed were asians. Refine that further with 6 (?) women out of 8. Now you have probability causation.
Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
No stats, but if you look at high profile individual cases, there is often documented evidence of mental illness. Documented evidence in the Newtown and Parkland shootings, for example.
For the statement in bold, I didn't say otherwise. Please take a course in logic.
I am arguing logic.
No, you are not. Rewrite that as "Plenty of racist people do not engage in mass killings." Do you think that means racism was not the cause? If you don't, then you see what's wrong with you wrote.
Someone who targets 3 Asian businesses is not racially profiling? They weren't side by side by side. From what I heard, he drove nearly an hour (?) to get to the next target. That sounds like premeditation.
If his goal was to kill Asians, he didn't need to drive across town to do it. There's a Chinese restaurant across the street from the site of the first shooting.
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to wade to far into the specific debate going on in this particular thread, but I think this piece on the history of fetishization of "Asian" women (in quotes, because "Asian" is such a broad, ill-defined term when people I think mean by it "Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Japanese origin women who are petite and relatively light-skinned") is relevant: https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
Maybe the mass murderer was a mentally ill sex-addict. Why he thought that the best way to deal with his addiction was to kill people and why he associated his specific victims with his addiction cannot possibly be disentangled from the history of sexual fetishization of women from certain parts of the Asian continent and the view of them as being simultaneously subservient and hyper-sexual.
I did not find this article helpful to figuring out if this was a hate crime or a mental health issue. There are few types of businesses in the U.S. that have sexual services as a side service. Of the ones that are, a large number are Asian staffed and likely Asian run. If someone wants that service, it's not necessarily because they fetishize Asian women, though that might be true for some customers. It could be because that's who offers the service. If you don't like the association, take it up with the business owners and local governments to stop the practice and stop trafficking. At least some of the trafficking starts in Asia.
Whoosh! The words, "cannot possibly be disentangled" have a plain meaning. Perhaps you may find a dictionary useful: https://www.dictionary.com/
Or maybe PP thinks those things actually could be disentangled with a little more case-specific evidence?
Absolutely sexism plus racism- but the real issue we never discuss is access to guns/ammunition. Without that, just another racist incel, not a mass murderer.
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to wade to far into the specific debate going on in this particular thread, but I think this piece on the history of fetishization of "Asian" women (in quotes, because "Asian" is such a broad, ill-defined term when people I think mean by it "Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Japanese origin women who are petite and relatively light-skinned") is relevant: https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
Maybe the mass murderer was a mentally ill sex-addict. Why he thought that the best way to deal with his addiction was to kill people and why he associated his specific victims with his addiction cannot possibly be disentangled from the history of sexual fetishization of women from certain parts of the Asian continent and the view of them as being simultaneously subservient and hyper-sexual.
I did not find this article helpful to figuring out if this was a hate crime or a mental health issue. There are few types of businesses in the U.S. that have sexual services as a side service. Of the ones that are, a large number are Asian staffed and likely Asian run. If someone wants that service, it's not necessarily because they fetishize Asian women, though that might be true for some customers. It could be because that's who offers the service. If you don't like the association, take it up with the business owners and local governments to stop the practice and stop trafficking. At least some of the trafficking starts in Asia.
Whoosh! The words, "cannot possibly be disentangled" have a plain meaning. Perhaps you may find a dictionary useful: https://www.dictionary.com/
Or maybe PP thinks those things actually could be disentangled with a little more case-specific evidence?
Then maybe PP should say that? Or maybe, just maybe, PP should recognize that their perception that "a large number [of businesses that have sexual services as a side service] are Asian staffed and likely Asian run" might be fueled by a century-long history in bigotry, racism, and, yes, fetishization of "Asian" and "Asian"-American women...as the article from Vox discusses. This is why it can't be disentangled.
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to wade to far into the specific debate going on in this particular thread, but I think this piece on the history of fetishization of "Asian" women (in quotes, because "Asian" is such a broad, ill-defined term when people I think mean by it "Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Japanese origin women who are petite and relatively light-skinned") is relevant: https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
Maybe the mass murderer was a mentally ill sex-addict. Why he thought that the best way to deal with his addiction was to kill people and why he associated his specific victims with his addiction cannot possibly be disentangled from the history of sexual fetishization of women from certain parts of the Asian continent and the view of them as being simultaneously subservient and hyper-sexual.
I did not find this article helpful to figuring out if this was a hate crime or a mental health issue. There are few types of businesses in the U.S. that have sexual services as a side service. Of the ones that are, a large number are Asian staffed and likely Asian run. If someone wants that service, it's not necessarily because they fetishize Asian women, though that might be true for some customers. It could be because that's who offers the service. If you don't like the association, take it up with the business owners and local governments to stop the practice and stop trafficking. At least some of the trafficking starts in Asia.
Whoosh! The words, "cannot possibly be disentangled" have a plain meaning. Perhaps you may find a dictionary useful: https://www.dictionary.com/
Or maybe PP thinks those things actually could be disentangled with a little more case-specific evidence?
Then maybe PP should say that? Or maybe, just maybe, PP should recognize that their perception that "a large number [of businesses that have sexual services as a side service] are Asian staffed and likely Asian run" might be fueled by a century-long history in bigotry, racism, and, yes, fetishization of "Asian" and "Asian"-American women...as the article from Vox discusses. This is why it can't be disentangled.
I think PP did say that and you are having a really hard time accepting that PP might have a point, so you are insisting that PP must be too stupid to understand yours.
Anonymous wrote:It’s possible to be a racist and also to be mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn’t excuse racism and it doesn’t make it okay to single out Asian women for mass murder.
It also doesn’t explain anything. “Mental illness” is a such a vague, amorphous blob word encompassing those of us with plain old generalized anxiety along with violent sociopaths. “Mental illness” isn’t really a common reason for people to go ape sht and murder people.
A history of domestic violence, on the other hand - that’s a huge risk factor for more violence.
Mental lllness is a HUGE risk factor when it comes to crimes. This article says 25% of the people arrested have a serious mental illness and the mentally ill are 9X more likely to go to prison than a mental hospital. That's probably an underestimate since even serious mental illnesses often don't get diagnosed. And mental illness is also associated with many other adverse outcomes such as drug abuse, homelessness, unemployment, physical illness, poverty and high school dropouts. And domestic violence too.
Some of the most infamous mass murders in the US were definitely or probably committed by mentally ill people who were not receiving adequate treatment.
Why don't you know about what a significant factor mental illness plays in virtually every social problem in the United States? Because every time someone brings it up, the pundits and the politicians refuse to even consider the mental illness factor and DCUM posters follow dutifully along. Every time. No matter the issue.
Are there stats on mass killings where courts have certified mental illness as the direct cause of the killings? I am guessing there aren't many certified cases. Plenty of mentally ill people do not engage in mass killings.
No stats, but if you look at high profile individual cases, there is often documented evidence of mental illness. Documented evidence in the Newtown and Parkland shootings, for example.
For the statement in bold, I didn't say otherwise. Please take a course in logic.
I am arguing logic.
No, you are not. Rewrite that as "Plenty of racist people do not engage in mass killings." Do you think that means racism was not the cause? If you don't, then you see what's wrong with you wrote.
Someone who targets 3 Asian businesses is not racially profiling? They weren't side by side by side. From what I heard, he drove nearly an hour (?) to get to the next target. That sounds like premeditation.
Maybe, but that isn't a logical argument. Like I said, take course.
If you argue mental illness as a cause in court, I am pretty sure you'll lose.
Mental illness is not a legal defense. Insanity is, but the legal definition of insanity is not knowing right from wrong. Almost all mentally ill people do know right from wrong, so they are still legally responsible for their actions. This perpetrator does not appear to be legally insane and I don't think anybody said he was.
Maybe you should take a course in law too?
Not interested in law. But if you want to argue mental illness or insanity, you'll have to refine that within a class of X, subset of Y... You can't go from insanity or whatever to kill cuz now you DO have a problem of insanity not killing. So go probabilistic.
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely sexism plus racism- but the real issue we never discuss is access to guns/ammunition. Without that, just another racist incel, not a mass murderer.
We actually discussed that for the last umpteen mass murders and I think most gun control advocates have learned not to bother anymore.
Anonymous wrote:The recent wave of crimes against Asians is the worst in the last thirty years as far as I remembered. Yet very few of these crimes are classified as hate crimes. I have yet to see an announcement from FBI that they are investing the massage shooting to find out if this is a hate crime.
Aren’t there certain markers of hate crimes that need to be in evidence to classify? Are all crimes hate crimes?
In order to control public outrage, isn’t it better to say there is no evidence of a hate crime if it’s the truth? It doesn’t mean they won’t bring evidence to light if it’s found.
You mean, it’s better for white audiences to hear that a white man doesn’t seem to have committed a racially motivated crime? Because that is not what Asian Americans and women want to hear.
Not saying that. But why do groups *want* to hear their group is a target of something if the evidence isn’t there (yet)? I can’t understand that.
Our society is totally obsessed by race. That may be natural in any society with a long history of racism, but it also means we unconsciously forcing racial narratives when the evidence doesn't warrant it. The only evidence we think we need is the race of the victims and that's that.
The killer allegedly shouted something to the effect, “I am gonna kill Asians.” This is from one of the witnesses.
That is an uncorroborate report from a Korean newspaper. Also, the narrative that this was racially motivated emerged before that Korean report. The point is that we immediately jump to race as the primary motivator before the facts come out. Most people on this are positive that this all about race. Even those who may admit misogyny are ignoring the very real connection among misogyny, sex addiction and mental health. And who here even considered the class implications of low income sex workers forced into illegal activities to pay the rent while dealing with abusive men?That's a story as old as Jack the Ripper, yet we are mostlt ignoring it.
Every story has multiple narratives. But we prefer racial narratives to dominate over others whenever possible.
Actually, Asian American advocates are clear that this is about race, gender, and class. Keep up.
People say a lot of things, but the racial is narrative is clearly dominant. I didn't say it was exclusive. Also when I said "who here?" I meant on this thread. Mostly posters are saying they were targetted for their race. Very little discussion about violence against prostitutes.
I didn't even say it's wrong to focus on race. I just think it's it important to notice when you are doing and the real reasons why. But you all seem to have a lot of resistance to doing that kind of work. Racial work is only for other people and only accepted when the "correct" conclusions are drawn.
Yes, and according to you, Hitler was just having a bad day when he was at the end of the rope. According to you, you just need to see what Hitler had to say, that abhorring to H, he felt he needed to eliminate the problem because these people were.... (you fill in the blank).
I said nothing of the kind and neither did anyone else anywhere, ever.
Seems like you are dehumanizing the victims by giving voice to the killer. That’s been done before. Read Hanna Arendt, one of the greatest 20th century Jewish political philosophers whose lover was the great Nazi philosopher Martin Heidegger. She’ll tell you the horrible Nazi officers responsible for the atrocities were actually Ordinary Joes who worked 9-5 jobs - just like me and you. They had no particular motive or animosity for their actions. Hence the banality of evil.
Again, I did nothing of the kind.
I read Hannah Arendt and lots of other people too. Where does she say that discussing a killer's motivations dehumanizes the victims? And if she does say that, who says I have to agree with it? And if I did agree that the banality of evil applied to all Nazi soldiers, where does she say that it also applies to murderers who weren't paid to kill? And what did Arendt say about the banality of Hitler himself? I don't know the answer to that myself, if I read that I forgot it. But her personal library did include Mein Kampf and biographies about Hitler, so presumably she thought it worth it to consider what he had to say.
I see in many of these posts Arendt’s own banality of evil analysis as applied to the killer, constantly asking for “proof” of this or that. Arendt’s analysis is not limited to Eichmann. Her analysis can be applied to anything - Holocaust, slavery, Jim Crow... According Arendt, you need not impute a particular evil motive bc in her analysis, you can always explain people’s action in practical and mundane way. Most people were simply going on about their daily lives doing their 9-5 job, pushing paper, reporting to their bosses, applying for promotion, etc. In the case of the Georgia killer, he might as well have been Camus’ stranger - someone detached, someone who just shot and killed people not knowing why, just going through his reflexive motions. And Yes, Camus’ Stranger straight up blamed the bright sunlight in the hot desert when he was asked why he killed an innocent man. In short, Camus’s Stranger was just having a bad day. There’s no reason to impute any motive beyond his reflexive motions. They just are.
Luckily for Arendt, despite her Nazi Heidegger lover, she was able to put sense in to her analysis. In the end, she was able to separate her need to analyze, constant need for facts, with Eichmann’s actions.
I'm not really sure where you are going with this. I think it started with a PP (you?) falsely attributing an absurd opinion to me. Now you are you quoting philosophers of the absurd and the evil about why you don't need facts or proof, you can just make assumptions based on whatever you see and take it from there. If that's what you think Arendt and Camus are all about, it's no wonder you think I'm absurd.
You were sounding a lot like Hannah Arendt in her insistence we need not read too much into Nazi's heinous crimes, that these people were mostly performing their 9-5 jobs as they were told, reporting to their bosses - not that they were anti-semites. I've bolded your statements above. And then you said, "I said nothing of the kind and neither did anyone else anywhere, ever." That's when I first mentioned Arendt to show you the parallel in your thinking. You insisted no one has EVER held your view with respect to the nazis. One of the greatest 20th-century Jewish political philosophers Hannah Arendt did. She wrote a book to prove her point. Not surprisingly, she had a Nazi lover. And then there are other things: "And who here even considered the class implications of low income sex workers forced into illegal activities to pay the rent while dealing with abusive men?" And incredibly you went on, "Very little discussion about violence against prostitutes." So, it's not the race in this case. It seems you want to explore the prostitution angle to see what role this had in the Georgia killing. Your point is clear. It was the prostitutes' fault, they brought the violence onto themselves. And in Nazi Germany, it wasn't anti-Semitism, to begin with. You seem to suggest we need to be more open-minded to see what Jews must have done to deserve their fate. You didn't explicitly say these things. But it is clear you are victim-blaming and victim-shaming.
No, I didn't say anything like this and there is no reasonable way you got any of this out of what I did say. You've also grossly misinterpreted Hannah Arendt's thesis thereby ignoring what her actual contributions are to the understanding of genocide, racism, and totalitarianism. Kind of a weird thing to do to a refugee from the Nazis, but hey, far be it from you to victim shame or anything like that.
Dial it back a bit scholar. You're taking that stuff completely out of context. Arrendt's point was that they knew what they were doing but didn't care. They didn't need to enjoy it to willingly do it. Evil isn't torture and zyklon b. Evil is the railway dispatcher and the camp quartermaster. Evil isn't active it is indifferent. It lies in the banal. The mundane tasks of paperwork and logstics. The true horror of the Holocaust wasn't that it happened but that it happened so normally.
She raised that to prove that Eichmann knew. That he had to know. That his claim that he did not know was a lie. He knew. He just didn't care.
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to wade to far into the specific debate going on in this particular thread, but I think this piece on the history of fetishization of "Asian" women (in quotes, because "Asian" is such a broad, ill-defined term when people I think mean by it "Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Japanese origin women who are petite and relatively light-skinned") is relevant: https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
Maybe the mass murderer was a mentally ill sex-addict. Why he thought that the best way to deal with his addiction was to kill people and why he associated his specific victims with his addiction cannot possibly be disentangled from the history of sexual fetishization of women from certain parts of the Asian continent and the view of them as being simultaneously subservient and hyper-sexual.
I did not find this article helpful to figuring out if this was a hate crime or a mental health issue. There are few types of businesses in the U.S. that have sexual services as a side service. Of the ones that are, a large number are Asian staffed and likely Asian run. If someone wants that service, it's not necessarily because they fetishize Asian women, though that might be true for some customers. It could be because that's who offers the service. If you don't like the association, take it up with the business owners and local governments to stop the practice and stop trafficking. At least some of the trafficking starts in Asia.
Whoosh! The words, "cannot possibly be disentangled" have a plain meaning. Perhaps you may find a dictionary useful: https://www.dictionary.com/
Or maybe PP thinks those things actually could be disentangled with a little more case-specific evidence?
Then maybe PP should say that? Or maybe, just maybe, PP should recognize that their perception that "a large number [of businesses that have sexual services as a side service] are Asian staffed and likely Asian run" might be fueled by a century-long history in bigotry, racism, and, yes, fetishization of "Asian" and "Asian"-American women...as the article from Vox discusses. This is why it can't be disentangled.
I think PP did say that and you are having a really hard time accepting that PP might have a point, so you are insisting that PP must be too stupid to understand yours.
Using which words did they say that? Also, even if they did, stating that they disagree with something someone else wrote is not making "a point". So, not sure why anyone would feel compelled to "accept" a counterpoint that wasn't even argued.
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
I said nothing of the kind and neither did anyone else anywhere, ever.