Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People go into STEM because they love it. Not to get into the top 1%. Sheesh.

Going to be completely frank again here

Many Asians view STEM as the path to success when generally white Americans generally know those folks never really make it to the top. People that manage these folks make much more and generally have fewer STEM skills not to mention the other career fields I mentioned that have nothing to do with STEM

you are kidding yourself if you think many of these kids actually have an interest in STEM, much like athletics and white folks this "interest" is often pushed on kids in elementary school if not sooner.

Please don’t group us together just because TJ is majority Asian. You must not know many rich Asians. I’m the pp Asian living in McLean. There are many affluent Asians who are not trying to send our kids to TJ. We are ivy educated and have a seven figure income. There are different kinds of Asian elites. Most are not targeting TJ.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't admission be based on merit?

Does merit include kids whose parents start reading to them, exposing them to science, and exposing them to math when they are infants?

Research shows that kids whose parents read to them from when they are babies are far better prepared for school then kids who do not. My kid had access to lots of books. We read to him every day, many times throughout the day. He had access to blocks, magnatiles, legos, tinker toys, and other engineering/construction type toys. We took him to museums and watched science based tv shows with him. We could do that because we could afford those objects, knew about the library, and had the time to take him places and do things with him. A family who makes less money then we do and does not have the same background cannot provide the same opportunities.

Kids from that family are not less intelligent then my son, they have had fewer opportunities to develop their intelligence. Their parents don't have the money or time or knowledge or combination of all three. So those kids are far more likely to be excluded from AAP and TJ simply because their parents lack the resources to provide for them what I could provide for my son.

Does merit include tutoring that starts in Kindergarten or even earlier? That tutoring gives kids an advantage in school and testing, which is more likely to lead to AAP and TJ.

We have not done any extra tutoring for our son, he is 8. We encourage him in his interests, we play math games and encourage him at home. He was accepted into AAP.He had a huge advantage over kids whose parents couldn't/didn't/don't know how to give their kids the same opportunities that we gave our son. How many kids entering AAP have had the benefits my son had and then add tutoring on top of it. Tutoring starts in pre-school for some families. There are test centers to prep kids for the NNAT, CogAT, and TJ exams. Is that merit?

You call it merit, others call it prepping and advantages that not every family knows about or can afford.

I don't call it prepping. I call it good parenting. Do you think setting a schedule and making sure your kids do their homework and go to bed on time prepping? There are plenty of parents who don't do this, buy their kids phones in elementary and let them have unlimited access. You have to decide what's important in your house.

There is a huge difference with making sure your child does their homework, eats well, and goes to bed on time and sending your kid for advanced tutoring in Math so that they can take Algebra in 6th or 7th grade. I would argue the same about travel sports as well. Part of the reason these kids are bored in school is because their parents started sending them to tutoring when they were 4 or 5. I have no doubt that these kids would be doing just fine in math without that tutoring. And I suspect they would do just fine in life if they took Algebra in 8th Grade. You can encourage a kids interest without attempting to promote them ahead of their classmates.

And while I fully believe that their are kids who love math, DS is one of them, I don't really buy that AoPS is in business because there are soooo many kids who really want to do extra math during the week or on the weekends. And I sure as heck know that the number of NNAT, CogAT, and TJ Prep centers are not there because kindergarteners and first graders are asking their parents to study for a test. I suspect that the same is true for the kids in the TJ programs. So much of these programs are driven by parents who seem to think that it is important that their kids do their homework, eat well, go to bed on time, and attending extra tutoring to get ahead in subject materials.

Racist and envious

That PP doesn't seem to understand that in some cultures, education and high stakes exams are viewed as a way to a prosperous future and parents view it as their duty to provide every possible advantage to their kids. Likewise kids are taught that they owe it to their family to succeed so that they can in turn support their parents in old age.

good for them, there is no reason for a public school system to cater to that expectation

Agree. And high school sports teams should also be based on lottery.

The whole notion of arbitrary tryouts that skew towards athletes that have been prepped is unjust and racist.

All kids deserve the chance to play on the teams and with equal playing time. The diversity of the team will only make the team better.

That’s a great idea. That will help provide opportunities in sports that currently skew white UMC. Crew. LAX. Golf. Tennis. Etc.

uh, no . more like basketball, football

Sure - all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Education begins in the home and that begins very early. I was taught that schools were supplemental to my education, and I now appreciate what my parents instilled in me over and over. Parents are solely responsible for the education. Not the teachers, not the school system, not the county, not the state. I never had fancy prep schools, or private tutors. But, I vividly recall reading every night before bed, 7 days a week - even on vacation trips - in silence and aloud. I would feel incomplete if this routine were omitted. (Imagine forgoing teeth brushing before bed for your kid!) In retrospect, this was transformative for me and permitted me to develop a love for learning. So, yes early intervention (imprinting) is essential for lifelong learning and long term success.

This is so true. But I think schools can do more to push better behaviors instead of succumbing to the soft bigotry of low expectations. My parents were divorced and my mother worked nights. I wasn't doing my book reports because I didn't feel like it. My teacher cornered me and told me I owed him book reports, handed me a book and told me to turn in my report at the end of the week. Guess what I did?

Nowadays, any homework or studying has been eliminated. Students' schedules are micromanaged to ensure success through middle school. There are built in study periods and required reading is done in class. At least, this is how it's been done in my kids' Title 1 elementary and middle schools. And, my kids are in local level AAP classes. How do we expect students to manage themselves? Furthermore, at this rate, they cannot be expected to know what level of work is required for TJ unless their parents push them or change schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If we can’t make access to TJ fair then we should shut it down. Fix it or lose it altogether.

better make access to ivies fair, too

If they were public, sure.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pigeonholing the idea of "merit" as being entirely measurable by exam scores and GPA is just not within the realm of reality.

This is a great example of a poster who feels free to comment without knowing anything. The current application process is not just exam scores and GPA. It includes teacher recs.

My half asian kids at TJ never prepped (but did visit libraries, museums and were read to). People don’t care and make sweeping judgments about Asians and prep culture and denigrate students there. It’s horrendous that people are so comfortable with racism towards Asian Americans. When TJ was mostly white, no one minded. Same with elite colleges. Langley and McLean are mostly white but no one is talking about redistricting them.

Aren’t the white kids all prepping too?

Interest among white families has plummeted in recent years. TJ sees less than half of the white applicants year-over-year than they did 6-8 years ago. Some white families prep too, but there are much fewer of them in the application process.

+1

Why isn't TJ representative of the County it serves? Why shouldn't it be?

STEM professionals don't look like the country as a whole.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

look it's parenting. It is not the job of the government to get more black and hispanic farms families to read to their children more and engage with them more from 0-3

Heck it starts even before that with nutrition and care during pregnancy

Folks this is why you will never close the achievement gap. Move on die on another hill

And this is why we will continue to have protests. Nasty racists who just don’t get it. Go back to your hole.

facts aren't racist feel free to keep on protesting but ignoring reality is just dumb.

It’s disgusting that you try to blame inequality on “bad parenting”.

Seems like your own parents failed, big time.

last one what's stopping a poor person from reading to their kid or choosing a better diet.... you can't answer the question its bad parenting that causes the initial gap from 0-3 period. You can pour all the money you want (We have been doing it for what over 50 years now) it won't solve that initial gap.

Nope. We haven’t done much to fix the wealth inequality.

Bandaids don’t address the root inequalities or fix systemic racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People go into STEM because they love it. Not to get into the top 1%. Sheesh.

Going to be completely frank again here

Many Asians view STEM as the path to success when generally white Americans generally know those folks never really make it to the top. People that manage these folks make much more and generally have fewer STEM skills not to mention the other career fields I mentioned that have nothing to do with STEM

you are kidding yourself if you think many of these kids actually have an interest in STEM, much like athletics and white folks this "interest" is often pushed on kids in elementary school if not sooner.

Please don’t group us together just because TJ is majority Asian. You must not know many rich Asians. I’m the pp Asian living in McLean. There are many affluent Asians who are not trying to send our kids to TJ. We are ivy educated and have a seven figure income. There are different kinds of Asian elites. Most are not targeting TJ.

violent agreement not my intention at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

look it's parenting. It is not the job of the government to get more black and hispanic farms families to read to their children more and engage with them more from 0-3

Heck it starts even before that with nutrition and care during pregnancy

Folks this is why you will never close the achievement gap. Move on die on another hill

And this is why we will continue to have protests. Nasty racists who just don’t get it. Go back to your hole.

facts aren't racist feel free to keep on protesting but ignoring reality is just dumb.

It’s disgusting that you try to blame inequality on “bad parenting”.

Seems like your own parents failed, big time.

last one what's stopping a poor person from reading to their kid or choosing a better diet.... you can't answer the question its bad parenting that causes the initial gap from 0-3 period. You can pour all the money you want (We have been doing it for what over 50 years now) it won't solve that initial gap.

Nope. We haven’t done much to fix the wealth inequality.

Bandaids don’t address the root inequalities or fix systemic racism.

so you are arguing for more money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP and going to be completely open and frank here

STEM is not the end all be all for most elites

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1%

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM

If my kid had an interest in STEM we would think about it but regardless getting my child into Advanced Algebra by 7th is not the goal for anyone in my circles.

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1% : Not true actually. Many Indians w/ STEM background are making it to the C-Suites of large companies.

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM :


Many Business majors either double major w/ CS or at least minor in CS these days, patent law/patent litigation offers more job opportunities for law grads w/ STEM undergrad degrees than law grads w/ non-STEM undergrad degrees and pay is often more for those w/ STEM undergrads, many non-STEM kids are getting booted out from the BB IBs and "Quants" and "Strats" are replacing many analysts/associates/traders in the IBDs and S&Ts of the major IBs and, not even worth my time to rebut the false argument regarding the Silicon Valley positions.

you just proved my point its the skills on top of STEM not the STEM that gets you to the top. The managerial/people skills are what matters. Tons of MBAs are going to silicon valley now with little actual STEM skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP and going to be completely open and frank here

STEM is not the end all be all for most elites

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1%

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM

If my kid had an interest in STEM we would think about it but regardless getting my child into Advanced Algebra by 7th is not the goal for anyone in my circles.

The people I know working in STEM are mid level worker/earners at best. The people I know that run companies and employ 100 or more people are more well rounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP and going to be completely open and frank here

STEM is not the end all be all for most elites

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1%

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM

If my kid had an interest in STEM we would think about it but regardless getting my child into Advanced Algebra by 7th is not the goal for anyone in my circles.

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1% : Not true actually. Many Indians w/ STEM background are making it to the C-Suites of large companies.

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM :


Many Business majors either double major w/ CS or at least minor in CS these days, patent law/patent litigation offers more job opportunities for law grads w/ STEM undergrad degrees than law grads w/ non-STEM undergrad degrees and pay is often more for those w/ STEM undergrads, many non-STEM kids are getting booted out from the BB IBs and "Quants" and "Strats" are replacing many analysts/associates/traders in the IBDs and S&Ts of the major IBs and, not even worth my time to rebut the false argument regarding the Silicon Valley positions.

you just proved my point its the skills on top of STEM not the STEM that gets you to the top. The managerial/people skills are what matters. Tons of MBAs are going to silicon valley now with little actual STEM skills.

The people I know at the top come from well rounded backgrounds and have internal drive. They were not "prepped" with auxillary courses pushed by their parents throughout school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP and going to be completely open and frank here

STEM is not the end all be all for most elites

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1%

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM

If my kid had an interest in STEM we would think about it but regardless getting my child into Advanced Algebra by 7th is not the goal for anyone in my circles.

The people I know working in STEM are mid level worker/earners at best. The people I know that run companies and employ 100 or more people are more well rounded.

Not from my perspective, but I'm looking internationally and not in the USA. Outside of the USA, you see far more business leaders and political leaders with STEM backgrounds. That aside, with all the more recent emphasis on modeling/qantatative analysis in business and finance, STEM related skills are going to increase.

STEM is more than just knowing the ideal gas law or performing a summation of moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP and going to be completely open and frank here

STEM is not the end all be all for most elites

Very few STEM people actually make it into the top 1%

Business, Law, Finance, even Silicon Valley tech Mgmt side have very little to do with STEM

If my kid had an interest in STEM we would think about it but regardless getting my child into Advanced Algebra by 7th is not the goal for anyone in my circles.

The people I know working in STEM are mid level worker/earners at best. The people I know that run companies and employ 100 or more people are more well rounded.

Not from my perspective, but I'm looking internationally and not in the USA. Outside of the USA, you see far more business leaders and political leaders with STEM backgrounds. That aside, with all the more recent emphasis on modeling/qantatative analysis in business and finance, STEM related skills are going to increase.

STEM is more than just knowing the ideal gas law or performing a summation of moments.

and guess what you get all that in your base HS. As you noted the US is not like international and guess what most people pushing TJ haven't realized the transition yet generally earlier generations in the United States etc.

[Anonymous]

You know that Asians were banned from immigrating to America until the 60s right?

Then, when they were allowed to immigrate, it was only STEM professionals (science, engineering, medical) that were allowed to immigrate because America needed their intelligence and skills.

So now you have this wave of immigrants from STEM fields and their kids with aptitudes towards STEM fields along with parents that encourage it because it was their ticket to success in America and now there is a HUGE complaint about it.

You wanted the brains of the parents, but are now miffed at the brains of their kids.

[Anonymous]

It's so obvious. Create one elite TJ-type school for each region of FCPS.