The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions

[Anonymous]

Do you know how to get antibiotics for a sinus infection?
Walk into minute clinic, tell them you had a cold almost two weeks ago and now your face hurts, especially when you bend over, oh...and your upper teeth hurt, and you’ve been using saline for 10 days and it’s not helping. Bingo - prescription.

Do you know how to get your kid diagnosed with ADHD? Walk into a psychiatrists office...tell them the kid can’t focus, kid can’t initiate or complete tasks, kid takes 4 hours to to 1 hour of homework, kid is trying hard with tutors and not making progress. One IQ test, a few achievement tests, and a report from a teacher corroborating that the kid is flaky and can’t put his phone down long enough to focus and ta-da, extra time in school and on SAT/ACT. When SAT and ACT kick back the paperwork, you appeal and almost always goes through. I’ve seen it happen multiple times.

This isn’t rocket science. There is no definitive test for ADHD, it’s simply reported symptoms. I know there are plenty of people who genuinely have ADHD, but there are plenty of high schoolers who don’t and got a diagnosis once their parents realized this wasn’t going the way they wanted it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My TJ kid has a GAI IQ of more than 145. PS 100. That’s three full SDs. It has taken so much effort for them to perform at a school like TJ with such a variation in subtests. Does not get extra time to turn in assignments (which would be pointless, because the workload is so high they would just be digging themselves in a hole). Uses extended time at school for tests in advanced math, Chem and physics only. Does not seem to need it for reading based activities and assessments. Has the accommodation for both sections on the SAT, because it really isn’t an option to only get it for math. But finished the verbal with a lot of time to spare.

You DD is obviously very bright and motivated. While her GAI is above 145 her actual full scale IQ is above 130. She is intellectually gifted by all accounts.

Her processing speed is perfectly average. The deviation between her high scores and low scores is indicative of a possible LD but it’s not an LD by itself. How can being average at something be an LD by itself? It’s not. You allude to her being diagnosed with ADHD.

As a parent you are always going to want to see your child in the best possible way. You choose to look at the score which includes her strengths. You concede processing speed is important enough to warrant an LD and extra time, but you don’t include it in her IQ score or SAT score.

She does not need extra time on reading? Why? Because this is a strength for her. She is an extremely gifted reader. She needs extra time with math because this is a weakness for her. But extra time washes that distinction away. Why? She didn’t need it for one area. Why does she get it for the other?

You are essentially saying “my daughter is smart except for processing speed. So don’t take that into account for her.”

For other kids with average processing speed, yes. Make them rush through the test. Not her though.

Also, kids with high processing speed but relatively low IQ get punished.

DD is strongly ADHD. And the deviation between OS and GAI causes the problems. Also, one of her processing scores is 1%. It’s hard to explain, but her psychiatrist says it’s like putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the accelerator. She has had to learn how to slow down and work through complex problems step by step. She used to do complex problems in her head, make a small error, and just write down an incorrect answer.

She did not use accommodations on the TJ test, because she wasn’t available on accommodations day. Her math test was so low, I was surprised she was admitted (40/50, Old test). Her verbal score was perfect (50/50, old test). She refused accommodations for Math 3 and got a C+. Agreed to use them going forward and is now an A-/B+ math student.

If she understands TJ math, which is very, very deep and hard, not just time constrained, at an A-/B+ level, why should she not be allowed to demonstrate that? Are colleges looking for fast? Or kids who really understand the subject.

BtW, she is killing it in physics and wants to major in that.

I have nothing against your kid and I don’t care for TJ (live in MD). The problem is that the place your child is taking is a place denied to some other kid with some other “problem”. What you are saying is that your kids weaknesses need to be ignored - but that flip side is that some other kids weaknesses become more of an obstacle for that very reason. Kids who are quick don’t get credit for it and forced to compete on the ground that favors “slow” or whatever kids.

Btw I am pretty sure I have “undiagnosed” ADD. I can’t imagine preferential treatment on the account of it. It feels like cheating.

Nah, you are probably just not intelligent, just like your kid. There's a big difference between a "weakness" and a diagnosed brain disorder. Just accept that your kid is average.

As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

Lol...good lord you're an imbecile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

Alrighty then.

Just another “extremely stable genius,” I guess.

Yeah, unabomber twin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how to get antibiotics for a sinus infection?
Walk into minute clinic, tell them you had a cold almost two weeks ago and now your face hurts, especially when you bend over, oh...and your upper teeth hurt, and you’ve been using saline for 10 days and it’s not helping. Bingo - prescription.

Do you know how to get your kid diagnosed with ADHD? Walk into a psychiatrists office...tell them the kid can’t focus, kid can’t initiate or complete tasks, kid takes 4 hours to to 1 hour of homework, kid is trying hard with tutors and not making progress. One IQ test, a few achievement tests, and a report from a teacher corroborating that the kid is flaky and can’t put his phone down long enough to focus and ta-da, extra time in school and on SAT/ACT. When SAT and ACT kick back the paperwork, you appeal and almost always goes through. I’ve seen it happen multiple times.

This isn’t rocket science. There is no definitive test for ADHD, it’s simply reported symptoms. I know there are plenty of people who genuinely have ADHD, but there are plenty of high schoolers who don’t and got a diagnosis once their parents realized this wasn’t going the way they wanted it to.

First, there is an objective, definitive test for ADHD. The TOVA. So, there’s that.

Second, your grand scheme is to coach a kid fake an IQ test, coach a kid to fake achievement tests, coach a kid to lie to a psychologist (who interviews and tests them separately from you over several hours), coach them to lie to the pediatrician, and coach them to act “flaky” at school— or ask a teacher to lie? Do you have any idea how f’ed up it is to coach a kid to lie that broadly so they can cheat? Or that it tells your kid you don’t believe they can succeed on their own merits?


I review IQ tests in a different context. You know what happens when people malinger? It gets picked up in the testing and the test is marked as invalid. When subtest scores are wonky, people get the hard stuff and miss the easy stuff, kids have decent grades and the IQ comes back at 65 because they intentionally missed questions, GAI is low and PS is high and you are claiming ADHD, IQ subtests are out of line with achievement tests— theses tests are thrown out as invalid due to malingering.

It is not easy to fake the testing. It’s nearly impossible to fake the TOVA. You have zero idea what you are talking about. And it’s disturbing that you are telling your kids they have to lie and cheat on such a large scale to get ahead. Felicity Huffman says hi from her jail cell.

Educational testers have PhDs and put their licenses on the line when they sign test reports. They are harder to fool over 6 hours for a kid than minute clinic is over 10 minutes for an adult. And you probably aren’t fooling Minute Clinic either. They just don’t feel like arguing with you, so they hand you a prescription because you are loud, obnoxious and not leaving without it.

A real ADHD diagnosis is time consuming and expensive to get. And requires regular follow ups for medication. And, I assume you will also be giving your kid speed they don’t need every day to sell this story, right? Much easier, less time consuming and not illegal to just hire a 1:1 SAT tutor.

You have no idea what you are talking about. And your kid isn’t getting into Brown because they didn’t earn Brown. And because you are a shitty parent who taught your kid that lying to get ahead was a-ok. Not because some ADHD kid got extended time.

[Anonymous]

Poster 20:10 - read the WSJ article. It highlights and reports all that I see at our private wealthy HS. Maybe it would then open your eyes to what it really happening out there. The extended time abuse has gone too far that it now an unfair advantage. The current system has to be changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how to get antibiotics for a sinus infection?
Walk into minute clinic, tell them you had a cold almost two weeks ago and now your face hurts, especially when you bend over, oh...and your upper teeth hurt, and you’ve been using saline for 10 days and it’s not helping. Bingo - prescription.

Do you know how to get your kid diagnosed with ADHD? Walk into a psychiatrists office...tell them the kid can’t focus, kid can’t initiate or complete tasks, kid takes 4 hours to to 1 hour of homework, kid is trying hard with tutors and not making progress. One IQ test, a few achievement tests, and a report from a teacher corroborating that the kid is flaky and can’t put his phone down long enough to focus and ta-da, extra time in school and on SAT/ACT. When SAT and ACT kick back the paperwork, you appeal and almost always goes through. I’ve seen it happen multiple times.

This isn’t rocket science. There is no definitive test for ADHD, it’s simply reported symptoms. I know there are plenty of people who genuinely have ADHD, but there are plenty of high schoolers who don’t and got a diagnosis once their parents realized this wasn’t going the way they wanted it to.

Hmm, my kid had to take the TOVA and his teachers and parents had to full out forms.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t we just make it untuned for everyone and then indicate the time you took to finish as another data point that is reported to universities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t we just make it untuned for everyone and then indicate the time you took to finish as another data point that is reported to universities?

*untimed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poster 20:10 - read the WSJ article. It highlights and reports all that I see at our private wealthy HS. Maybe it would then open your eyes to what it really happening out there. The extended time abuse has gone too far that it now an unfair advantage. The current system has to be changed.

So what did I get wrong, exactly. Because I am in the middle of the system.

And more importantly, are you really feeling your kids they should lie over a long period of time to many people and try to fake testing to get extra time?

And I can’t read the WSJ article— it’s paywall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poster 20:10 - read the WSJ article. It highlights and reports all that I see at our private wealthy HS. Maybe it would then open your eyes to what it really happening out there. The extended time abuse has gone too far that it now an unfair advantage. The current system has to be changed.

Yep.. super easy to get extended time.

https://accommodations.collegeboard.org/documentation-guidelines/extended-time

PS — you work with the school to get accommodations. why is your “private wealthy” school letting kids fake it? That sounds... illegal.

[Anonymous]

Here’s what OP doesn’t tell you: a whopping 4% of students who take the SAT get college board accommodations. And not all college board accommodations are extra time. Extra breaks, computer testing, low vision/ how hearing, 4 function calculators for dysgraphia are all counted in.

And for the most recent year there is data, kids who got accommodations, on average, scored 40-50 points lower than kids who did not (2400 SAT scale was in effect).

That seems a lot different than every ivy bound kid with no real LDs buying accommodations (which is illegal, and for which people are currently going to jail).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/abuse-of-extended-time-on-sat-and-act-outrages-learning-disability-community/2019/03/29/d58de3c6-4c1f-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how to get antibiotics for a sinus infection?
Walk into minute clinic, tell them you had a cold almost two weeks ago and now your face hurts, especially when you bend over, oh...and your upper teeth hurt, and you’ve been using saline for 10 days and it’s not helping. Bingo - prescription.

Do you know how to get your kid diagnosed with ADHD? Walk into a psychiatrists office...tell them the kid can’t focus, kid can’t initiate or complete tasks, kid takes 4 hours to to 1 hour of homework, kid is trying hard with tutors and not making progress. One IQ test, a few achievement tests, and a report from a teacher corroborating that the kid is flaky and can’t put his phone down long enough to focus and ta-da, extra time in school and on SAT/ACT. When SAT and ACT kick back the paperwork, you appeal and almost always goes through. I’ve seen it happen multiple times.

This isn’t rocket science. There is no definitive test for ADHD, it’s simply reported symptoms. I know there are plenty of people who genuinely have ADHD, but there are plenty of high schoolers who don’t and got a diagnosis once their parents realized this wasn’t going the way they wanted it to.

That is an interesting comparison. Like many of us, I have a kid who has had medical issues that were easily treated with antibiotics and might well have killed him had he been diagnosed. No one would suggest that because some people game the system, his infections should go untreated.

Same kid has major issues that impact learning and processing and processing speed. His issues were diagnosed in part via EEG, not as simple as straight ADHD, but in order to qualify for accommodations he had to have extensive testing with times and untimed academic tests, IQ subtest scores, and documentation that he had been awarded similar accommodations at school and used his accommodations regularly. So way more than just verbal report. But even if you are right that people can game the system, is it fair to take away something he needs because other people misuse it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poster 20:10 - read the WSJ article. It highlights and reports all that I see at our private wealthy HS. Maybe it would then open your eyes to what it really happening out there. The extended time abuse has gone too far that it now an unfair advantage. The current system has to be changed.

Yep.. super easy to get extended time.

https://accommodations.collegeboard.org/documentation-guidelines/extended-time

PS — you work with the school to get accommodations. why is your “private wealthy” school letting kids fake it? That sounds... illegal.

Wealthy families has $$ to buy diagnosis. Private school who depend on donations are not going to challenge a doctor diagnosis. And College Board depend on school and approves 94% of accommodation requests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what OP doesn’t tell you: a whopping 4% of students who take the SAT get college board accommodations. And not all college board accommodations are extra time. Extra breaks, computer testing, low vision/ how hearing, 4 function calculators for dysgraphia are all counted in.

And for the most recent year there is data, kids who got accommodations, on average, scored 40-50 points lower than kids who did not (2400 SAT scale was in effect).

That seems a lot different than every ivy bound kid with no real LDs buying accommodations (which is illegal, and for which people are currently going to jail).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/abuse-of-extended-time-on-sat-and-act-outrages-learning-disability-community/2019/03/29/d58de3c6-4c1f-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html

They are NOT going to jail for faking disabilities- they have medical backup.which they bought. They are going to jail for one or all of the following:
1. Have someone take the test for their kid
2. Have someone change the answers
3. Bribing someone to falsely application information

[Anonymous]

What in blazes is wrong with you, OP?