The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid has a slow processing speed they deserve a lower score. This charade will end soon. Affluent parents gaming the system so their kid can bump their 1400 to a 1500 is going to end. They have to have a non-timed test, call it something else and offer it as an addition to the traditional ACT or SAT. Call it the NTSAT (non-timed SAT) offer to anyone with a 504 or to any kid who doesn't want to take the SAT with time constraints. Let the colleges then decide then. But the colleges should KNOW who is getting more time on these tests and this seems like the only fair way. NO MORE EXTRA TIME ON SAT OR ACT FOR ANYONE

Hey OP, did your snowflake go to SAT prep classes? If so you have no standing to complain about gaming the system.

Different pp, but my DC did not take any SAT prep classes, but did receive several accommodations on the SAT.

But you aren’t here complaining about it, right? I am asking people who complain about the extra time if they spent money on test prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Everyone I knew whose kids had accommodations took the SAT. And never took the test w/o accommodations, so couldn’t compare scores.

Everyone I know had their kids diagnosed after scoring poorly the first time. I have a senior in FCPS and she knows at least 5 kids who did this within the past year and a half. These are all kids who had weighted GPAs over 4.0 before testing. This is a huge problem.

We had one in honors classes and parents did not want him to sit for any standardized tests until they could get a doctors notes and testing - parents had done this for older kids. Got the extended time accommodations and crowed about perfect score in ACT and 780 in chem and math subject tests although he was not a top student in those classes. What was his accommodation? It was audio sensory - something about difficultly to process audio lectures. Not sure why that requires extra time in ACT or SAT since there are no lectures. He was aiming for HYP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truth is, more time on a (proctored, closed book) standardized test doesn’t make you smarter or enable you to know more. It just gives people a chance to show what they already know/can do.

The ACT is a tightly timed test. It’s not hard content, but it requires the student to answer quickly and move on, and many students simply can’t finish each section. You’ll notice that everyone who gets accomodations takes the ACT and not the SAT, and gets a significantly higher score than they did without extra time. The SAT allows for a slower pace, so the score increase is never as dramatic. Anyone could get a dramatically higher score with extra time on the ACT.

+1. Extra time is a huge advantage for the ACT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My TJ kid has a GAI IQ of more than 145. PS 100. That’s three full SDs. It has taken so much effort for them to perform at a school like TJ with such a variation in subtests. Does not get extra time to turn in assignments (which would be pointless, because the workload is so high they would just be digging themselves in a hole). Uses extended time at school for tests in advanced math, Chem and physics only. Does not seem to need it for reading based activities and assessments. Has the accommodation for both sections on the SAT, because it really isn’t an option to only get it for math. But finished the verbal with a lot of time to spare.

You DD is obviously very bright and motivated. While her GAI is above 145 her actual full scale IQ is above 130. She is intellectually gifted by all accounts.

Her processing speed is perfectly average. The deviation between her high scores and low scores is indicative of a possible LD but it’s not an LD by itself. How can being average at something be an LD by itself? It’s not. You allude to her being diagnosed with ADHD.

As a parent you are always going to want to see your child in the best possible way. You choose to look at the score which includes her strengths. You concede processing speed is important enough to warrant an LD and extra time, but you don’t include it in her IQ score or SAT score.

She does not need extra time on reading? Why? Because this is a strength for her. She is an extremely gifted reader. She needs extra time with math because this is a weakness for her. But extra time washes that distinction away. Why? She didn’t need it for one area. Why does she get it for the other?

You are essentially saying “my daughter is smart except for processing speed. So don’t take that into account for her.”

For other kids with average processing speed, yes. Make them rush through the test. Not her though.

Also, kids with high processing speed but relatively low IQ get punished.

DD is strongly ADHD. And the deviation between OS and GAI causes the problems. Also, one of her processing scores is 1%. It’s hard to explain, but her psychiatrist says it’s like putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the accelerator. She has had to learn how to slow down and work through complex problems step by step. She used to do complex problems in her head, make a small error, and just write down an incorrect answer.

She did not use accommodations on the TJ test, because she wasn’t available on accommodations day. Her math test was so low, I was surprised she was admitted (40/50, Old test). Her verbal score was perfect (50/50, old test). She refused accommodations for Math 3 and got a C+. Agreed to use them going forward and is now an A-/B+ math student.

If she understands TJ math, which is very, very deep and hard, not just time constrained, at an A-/B+ level, why should she not be allowed to demonstrate that? Are colleges looking for fast? Or kids who really understand the subject.

BtW, she is killing it in physics and wants to major in that.

I have nothing against your kid and I don’t care for TJ (live in MD). The problem is that the place your child is taking is a place denied to some other kid with some other “problem”. What you are saying is that your kids weaknesses need to be ignored - but that flip side is that some other kids weaknesses become more of an obstacle for that very reason. Kids who are quick don’t get credit for it and forced to compete on the ground that favors “slow” or whatever kids.

Btw I am pretty sure I have “undiagnosed” ADD. I can’t imagine preferential treatment on the account of it. It feels like cheating.

Nah, you are probably just not intelligent, just like your kid. There's a big difference between a "weakness" and a diagnosed brain disorder. Just accept that your kid is average.

As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Everyone I knew whose kids had accommodations took the SAT. And never took the test w/o accommodations, so couldn’t compare scores.

Everyone I know had their kids diagnosed after scoring poorly the first time. I have a senior in FCPS and she knows at least 5 kids who did this within the past year and a half. These are all kids who had weighted GPAs over 4.0 before testing. This is a huge problem.

I call BS and Troll. My kids went through the accommodations process for College Board. It is almost impossible to get accommodations for LDs diagnoses in HS. Among other things, you need a 504 or IEP, have to submit neuropsych testing with objective proof of the LD and the school sends questionaries to teachers who have to certify consistent use of accommodations in at least one subject for at least a year. My DCs got informal 9th grade PSAT accommodations because that is practice only. For 10th grade PSAT and APs, there was a lot of paperwork and certifications from two teachers that my kid consistently used extended time in their class for all of freshman year. DS used accommodations and got them for the SAT. DD was embarrassed and refused to use extended time freshman year. She was denied even though she has had a 504 since 3rd grade.

This is not a low fall of junior year SAT get a doctors note voila accommodations for the spring thing. I personally know kids who have always been suspected ADHD, were diagnosed in HS, got 504s, started medication, and were denied because they were diagnosed too late. They had been fine until 9th or 10th, so it was deemed not needed.

In fact, it was such a PITA that my kid stuck with the SAT precisely because no one felt like jumping through hoops again for the ACT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The accomodation-medical complex will fight this tooth and nail. So i wont fight that battle.

Instead I think kids who do not get extra time should indicate it on their applications.

So they can be weeded out as entitled whiners with no empathy? Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Everyone I knew whose kids had accommodations took the SAT. And never took the test w/o accommodations, so couldn’t compare scores.

Everyone I know had their kids diagnosed after scoring poorly the first time. I have a senior in FCPS and she knows at least 5 kids who did this within the past year and a half. These are all kids who had weighted GPAs over 4.0 before testing. This is a huge problem.

I call BS and Troll. My kids went through the accommodations process for College Board. It is almost impossible to get accommodations for LDs diagnoses in HS. Among other things, you need a 504 or IEP, have to submit neuropsych testing with objective proof of the LD and the school sends questionaries to teachers who have to certify consistent use of accommodations in at least one subject for at least a year. My DCs got informal 9th grade PSAT accommodations because that is practice only. For 10th grade PSAT and APs, there was a lot of paperwork and certifications from two teachers that my kid consistently used extended time in their class for all of freshman year. DS used accommodations and got them for the SAT. DD was embarrassed and refused to use extended time freshman year. She was denied even though she has had a 504 since 3rd grade.

This is not a low fall of junior year SAT get a doctors note voila accommodations for the spring thing. I personally know kids who have always been suspected ADHD, were diagnosed in HS, got 504s, started medication, and were denied because they were diagnosed too late. They had been fine until 9th or 10th, so it was deemed not needed.

In fact, it was such a PITA that my kid stuck with the SAT precisely because no one felt like jumping through hoops again for the ACT.

Did you not read the article? Do you not see the news? Do you not see the data that College Board itself put out on how accomodations jumped after tests with extended time could no longer be marked? Is your comprehension that poor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Everyone I knew whose kids had accommodations took the SAT. And never took the test w/o accommodations, so couldn’t compare scores.

Everyone I know had their kids diagnosed after scoring poorly the first time. I have a senior in FCPS and she knows at least 5 kids who did this within the past year and a half. These are all kids who had weighted GPAs over 4.0 before testing. This is a huge problem.

I call BS and Troll. My kids went through the accommodations process for College Board. It is almost impossible to get accommodations for LDs diagnoses in HS. Among other things, you need a 504 or IEP, have to submit neuropsych testing with objective proof of the LD and the school sends questionaries to teachers who have to certify consistent use of accommodations in at least one subject for at least a year. My DCs got informal 9th grade PSAT accommodations because that is practice only. For 10th grade PSAT and APs, there was a lot of paperwork and certifications from two teachers that my kid consistently used extended time in their class for all of freshman year. DS used accommodations and got them for the SAT. DD was embarrassed and refused to use extended time freshman year. She was denied even though she has had a 504 since 3rd grade.

This is not a low fall of junior year SAT get a doctors note voila accommodations for the spring thing. I personally know kids who have always been suspected ADHD, were diagnosed in HS, got 504s, started medication, and were denied because they were diagnosed too late. They had been fine until 9th or 10th, so it was deemed not needed.

In fact, it was such a PITA that my kid stuck with the SAT precisely because no one felt like jumping through hoops again for the ACT.

Did you not read the article? Do you not see the news? Do you not see the data that College Board itself put out on how accomodations jumped after tests with extended time could no longer be marked? Is your comprehension that poor?

The fact that accommodations jumped doesn't mean that the accommodations weren't needed. Plenty of people with disabilities mask or hide their disabilities because they have experienced significant prejudice, or know of others who have. People weighing the benefit of a more accurate score, against the downside of potential discrimination, might have chosen not to disclose. That doesn't mean that they weren't disabled or wouldn't have benefited from accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Everyone I knew whose kids had accommodations took the SAT. And never took the test w/o accommodations, so couldn’t compare scores.

Everyone I know had their kids diagnosed after scoring poorly the first time. I have a senior in FCPS and she knows at least 5 kids who did this within the past year and a half. These are all kids who had weighted GPAs over 4.0 before testing. This is a huge problem.

I call BS and Troll. My kids went through the accommodations process for College Board. It is almost impossible to get accommodations for LDs diagnoses in HS. Among other things, you need a 504 or IEP, have to submit neuropsych testing with objective proof of the LD and the school sends questionaries to teachers who have to certify consistent use of accommodations in at least one subject for at least a year. My DCs got informal 9th grade PSAT accommodations because that is practice only. For 10th grade PSAT and APs, there was a lot of paperwork and certifications from two teachers that my kid consistently used extended time in their class for all of freshman year. DS used accommodations and got them for the SAT. DD was embarrassed and refused to use extended time freshman year. She was denied even though she has had a 504 since 3rd grade.

This is not a low fall of junior year SAT get a doctors note voila accommodations for the spring thing. I personally know kids who have always been suspected ADHD, were diagnosed in HS, got 504s, started medication, and were denied because they were diagnosed too late. They had been fine until 9th or 10th, so it was deemed not needed.

In fact, it was such a PITA that my kid stuck with the SAT precisely because no one felt like jumping through hoops again for the ACT.

Did you not read the article? Do you not see the news? Do you not see the data that College Board itself put out on how accomodations jumped after tests with extended time could no longer be marked? Is your comprehension that poor?

Just because more people asked, and more people qualified doesn’t mean it still isn’t a process or that your pediatrician writes a note and you magically get accommodations. In general, we are better at identifying LDs and getting kids under a 504/IEP. That doesn’t mean CB accommodations are easy to get or that the diagnoses aren’t valid.

[Anonymous]

The 2 PP are fools who don’t know when they are being hoodwinked and really lack critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The 2 PP are fools who don’t know when they are being hoodwinked and really lack critical thinking skills.

Or they are involved in SN communities in the schools and know the number of diagnoses and kids seeking 504s and IEPs has also skyrocketed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

Alrighty then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My TJ kid has a GAI IQ of more than 145. PS 100. That’s three full SDs. It has taken so much effort for them to perform at a school like TJ with such a variation in subtests. Does not get extra time to turn in assignments (which would be pointless, because the workload is so high they would just be digging themselves in a hole). Uses extended time at school for tests in advanced math, Chem and physics only. Does not seem to need it for reading based activities and assessments. Has the accommodation for both sections on the SAT, because it really isn’t an option to only get it for math. But finished the verbal with a lot of time to spare.

You DD is obviously very bright and motivated. While her GAI is above 145 her actual full scale IQ is above 130. She is intellectually gifted by all accounts.

Her processing speed is perfectly average. The deviation between her high scores and low scores is indicative of a possible LD but it’s not an LD by itself. How can being average at something be an LD by itself? It’s not. You allude to her being diagnosed with ADHD.

As a parent you are always going to want to see your child in the best possible way. You choose to look at the score which includes her strengths. You concede processing speed is important enough to warrant an LD and extra time, but you don’t include it in her IQ score or SAT score.

She does not need extra time on reading? Why? Because this is a strength for her. She is an extremely gifted reader. She needs extra time with math because this is a weakness for her. But extra time washes that distinction away. Why? She didn’t need it for one area. Why does she get it for the other?

You are essentially saying “my daughter is smart except for processing speed. So don’t take that into account for her.”

For other kids with average processing speed, yes. Make them rush through the test. Not her though.

Also, kids with high processing speed but relatively low IQ get punished.

DD is strongly ADHD. And the deviation between OS and GAI causes the problems. Also, one of her processing scores is 1%. It’s hard to explain, but her psychiatrist says it’s like putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the accelerator. She has had to learn how to slow down and work through complex problems step by step. She used to do complex problems in her head, make a small error, and just write down an incorrect answer.

She did not use accommodations on the TJ test, because she wasn’t available on accommodations day. Her math test was so low, I was surprised she was admitted (40/50, Old test). Her verbal score was perfect (50/50, old test). She refused accommodations for Math 3 and got a C+. Agreed to use them going forward and is now an A-/B+ math student.

If she understands TJ math, which is very, very deep and hard, not just time constrained, at an A-/B+ level, why should she not be allowed to demonstrate that? Are colleges looking for fast? Or kids who really understand the subject.

BtW, she is killing it in physics and wants to major in that.

I have nothing against your kid and I don’t care for TJ (live in MD). The problem is that the place your child is taking is a place denied to some other kid with some other “problem”. What you are saying is that your kids weaknesses need to be ignored - but that flip side is that some other kids weaknesses become more of an obstacle for that very reason. Kids who are quick don’t get credit for it and forced to compete on the ground that favors “slow” or whatever kids.

Btw I am pretty sure I have “undiagnosed” ADD. I can’t imagine preferential treatment on the account of it. It feels like cheating.

Nah, you are probably just not intelligent, just like your kid. There's a big difference between a "weakness" and a diagnosed brain disorder. Just accept that your kid is average.

As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

LOL, I'm the PP who said you lack intelligence. You just confirmed, at least, that you lack emotional intelligence...and probably raw intelligence. Love that some of these really gifted special needs kids will likely outscore your kid and bump her from her first choice college. Love love love...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My TJ kid has a GAI IQ of more than 145. PS 100. That’s three full SDs. It has taken so much effort for them to perform at a school like TJ with such a variation in subtests. Does not get extra time to turn in assignments (which would be pointless, because the workload is so high they would just be digging themselves in a hole). Uses extended time at school for tests in advanced math, Chem and physics only. Does not seem to need it for reading based activities and assessments. Has the accommodation for both sections on the SAT, because it really isn’t an option to only get it for math. But finished the verbal with a lot of time to spare.

You DD is obviously very bright and motivated. While her GAI is above 145 her actual full scale IQ is above 130. She is intellectually gifted by all accounts.

Her processing speed is perfectly average. The deviation between her high scores and low scores is indicative of a possible LD but it’s not an LD by itself. How can being average at something be an LD by itself? It’s not. You allude to her being diagnosed with ADHD.

As a parent you are always going to want to see your child in the best possible way. You choose to look at the score which includes her strengths. You concede processing speed is important enough to warrant an LD and extra time, but you don’t include it in her IQ score or SAT score.

She does not need extra time on reading? Why? Because this is a strength for her. She is an extremely gifted reader. She needs extra time with math because this is a weakness for her. But extra time washes that distinction away. Why? She didn’t need it for one area. Why does she get it for the other?

You are essentially saying “my daughter is smart except for processing speed. So don’t take that into account for her.”

For other kids with average processing speed, yes. Make them rush through the test. Not her though.

Also, kids with high processing speed but relatively low IQ get punished.

DD is strongly ADHD. And the deviation between OS and GAI causes the problems. Also, one of her processing scores is 1%. It’s hard to explain, but her psychiatrist says it’s like putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the accelerator. She has had to learn how to slow down and work through complex problems step by step. She used to do complex problems in her head, make a small error, and just write down an incorrect answer.

She did not use accommodations on the TJ test, because she wasn’t available on accommodations day. Her math test was so low, I was surprised she was admitted (40/50, Old test). Her verbal score was perfect (50/50, old test). She refused accommodations for Math 3 and got a C+. Agreed to use them going forward and is now an A-/B+ math student.

If she understands TJ math, which is very, very deep and hard, not just time constrained, at an A-/B+ level, why should she not be allowed to demonstrate that? Are colleges looking for fast? Or kids who really understand the subject.

BtW, she is killing it in physics and wants to major in that.

I have nothing against your kid and I don’t care for TJ (live in MD). The problem is that the place your child is taking is a place denied to some other kid with some other “problem”. What you are saying is that your kids weaknesses need to be ignored - but that flip side is that some other kids weaknesses become more of an obstacle for that very reason. Kids who are quick don’t get credit for it and forced to compete on the ground that favors “slow” or whatever kids.

Btw I am pretty sure I have “undiagnosed” ADD. I can’t imagine preferential treatment on the account of it. It feels like cheating.

Nah, you are probably just not intelligent, just like your kid. There's a big difference between a "weakness" and a diagnosed brain disorder. Just accept that your kid is average.

As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

That's the spirit...keep them down -- where they belong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As it happens, I am almost certainly one of, say, ten smartest people you ever talked to. No, really. My kids are too young to know for sure but the oldest got into a gifted program with a huge margin.

Where were we again? oh yes, you want us all to scaffold your kid so that she can shy at the detriment of our own kids. As you can tell from the discussion here, that’s unlikely to happen.

Alrighty then.

Just another “extremely stable genius,” I guess.