What does it mean to “ban” abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this thread now that Brett Kavanaugh has been confirmed to the SC. What should we expect when Roe v. Wade is overturned? Will the police be required to investigate miscarriages? Will women be charged with a crime if they have an illegal abortion? What was life like pre-Roe?

It’s hard to compare since the technology is so different now. Most abortions happen in the first trimester and there is now an effective and very cheap to make pill for that. There are apps and emails mobile phones that can connect you to a dr. from any part of the country in a minute. Drinking under 21, smoking pot, and doing heroin or taking opioids when you don’t medically need them are all illegal yet very easy for people to do (realize pot laws are changing but you know what I mean).

I don’t want to sound casual - I don’t want abortion to be illegal in several states - but its going to be hard to regulate most first trimester abortions in a country that is seeing more tech advances and fewer regulations around telehealth. The other reality is there is no law that says SCOTUS has to have 9. Dems can pack the courts when there is a change in power and reverse some stuff. It’s going to be harder moving forward to act out these culture wars in the courts.

[Anonymous]

As women find it harder and harder to afford health care, and pregnancy prevention, they will have more problems and resort to hiding pregnancy. More issues like this will happen:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/virginia-woman-given-a-jail-sentence-for-concealing-a-dead-body-after-her-stillbirth.html

"In a small town in southern Virginia, in February of 2016, a young woman had a stillbirth. Katherine Dellis was 30 to 32 weeks pregnant when she passed out in her bathroom. When she woke up, the fetus was lying next to her on the bathroom floor. She wrapped the remains in a bathmat, put it in a trash bag, and put another trash bag around it. Her father, oblivious to what was inside, deposited the bag in a public dumpster, according to court documents."

"Later, at an emergency room, the physician treating Dellis heard her story and called the police. An autopsy would later reveal that the fetus’ lungs had never breathed air, confirming that it had expired before leaving the womb. Even so, Dellis was arrested and charged with a felony. Her crime? Concealing a dead body. Dellis entered a conditional guilty plea that allowed her attorney to continue arguing that the statute she supposedly violated does not apply to her case. One year after her stillbirth, she was sentenced to five months in jail."

"The opinion is unpublished, which means it cannot be cited as precedent in future court cases. But the argument it advances—that a fetus that has never lived outside a womb should be treated the same as a human being who has—is troubling. In recent years, several states have enacted regulations requiring fetal tissue from abortions to be buried, “entombed,” or “cremated.” Such laws in Texas and Indiana have been permanently blocked by federal judges."

"These laws, and the Virginia Court of Appeals’ ruling on the case of Katherine Dellis, <b>also give credence to the idea that fetuses deserve the same rights as living people. More than 90 percent of abortions in the U.S. take place within the first 13 weeks of pregnancy, when the average fetus is less than 3 inches long. A state that requires anything akin to death rites for fetal tissue is one step closer to arguing, as “personhood” laws do, that these fetuses have a right to tax-free college savings accounts, that contraception is murder, and that embryos should be able to sue the woman from whose egg they developed."</b>

[Anonymous]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/jun/30/abortion-supreme-court-law-anthony-kennedy

24 state could ban abortion in 2 years "if" Kavanaugh is confirmed.

Good luck with all that red staters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait until the rich Republicans realize their 35 year old daughters can’t abort a fetus that tests positive for Down Syndrome. Did you know that the majority are aborted?

The rich will just travel to where it is legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait until the rich Republicans realize their 35 year old daughters can’t abort a fetus that tests positive for Down Syndrome. Did you know that the majority are aborted?

The rich will just travel to where it is legal.

And poor women will suffer. Poverty rates will increase.

I'd love to see billionaires like the Gates or Soros set up a fund to let women in red states travel to get their abortions. I'd donate to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait until the rich Republicans realize their 35 year old daughters can’t abort a fetus that tests positive for Down Syndrome. Did you know that the majority are aborted?

The rich will just travel to where it is legal.

And poor women will suffer. Poverty rates will increase.

I'd love to see billionaires like the Gates or Soros set up a fund to let women in red states travel to get their abortions. I'd donate to it.

Of course then the question will be whether red states will enact laws making it illegal to cross state lines to get abortions.

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t really mean much. Maybe two states, tops, would place some mild restrictions on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.

Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.

They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!

Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really mean much. Maybe two states, tops, would place some mild restrictions on it.

Way to make a fool of yourself with your blinding ignorance. Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota have already passed trigger laws that would go into effect to ban abortion the moment Roe v Wade is overturned. Alabama and West Virginia have pre-Roe abortion bans still on the books that haven’t been enforced since Roe but we’re never repealed, and so thosemstates could start enforcing those laws again the moment Roe is overturned. Eight other states have bortion bans on the books that were blocked by state courts based on Roe, so if Roe were overturned those states could file actions with their respective state courts to vacate those determinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.

Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.

They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!

Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."

Actually liberals have a fairly nuanced view of wealth and crime. We recognize that wealthy criminals like Donald Trump get away with white collar crime like bilking the nation of hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes owed. Poverty, squalor, and the despair caused by hopeless circumstances of a life without opportunities increase the odds of illegal actions, and then poor people get tossed into jail at much higher rates than others, in part because they don't have the finances to pay for lawyers to avoid prison the way someone like Trump and his felon employees do.

Also poor (and black) people get harsher sentences for drug offenses than rich (white) people. Look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given Justice Kennedy’s retirement, I hear a lot of talk of “overturning” Roe v Wade or “banning” abortion. But what does this mean, practically speaking? Will girls who receive illegal abortions be arrested and charged with first-degree murder? What about rape victims? Will they be required by law to carry their rapist’s baby to term? Will women be required to report miscarriages to the police? Will the police be required to investigate all reports of miscarriages?

I was born after Roe v Wade so I’m trying to get a sense of what it will mean to return to a pre-Roe v Wade world.

Are you really this stupid? What the hell do you think BAN means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really mean much. Maybe two states, tops, would place some mild restrictions on it.

Way to make a fool of yourself with your blinding ignorance. Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota have already passed trigger laws that would go into effect to ban abortion the moment Roe v Wade is overturned. Alabama and West Virginia have pre-Roe abortion bans still on the books that haven’t been enforced since Roe but we’re never repealed, and so thosemstates could start enforcing those laws again the moment Roe is overturned. Eight other states have bortion bans on the books that were blocked by state courts based on Roe, so if Roe were overturned those states could file actions with their respective state courts to vacate those determinations.

Does this mean women who have abortions in these states could end up on death row?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?

As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.

Holy $hit are you wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?

As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.

Just because your capacity for empathy is broken doesn’t mean everyone’s is. We are not all so hateful and ignorant as you.

Why is it ignorant and hateful? Aren't there financial solutions there to get an abortion if you need it? What the gov't has to provide the abortion AND make it as convenient as possible for you?

Wow, you really just doubled down on your ignorance there. Congratulations.

But answer the question -- if abortions are available somewhere, why is it also required that it must be as easy as possible for you to get one? Why is it tragic if you have to inconvenience yourself to get one?

You fundamentally misunderstand the legal, political, financial and medical landscape here. Go educate yourself and then come back to talk to the grown-ups, until then you’re not worth wasting time on.

The fact that not one of you can answer one simple question – why must abortion be made convenient – suggests to me there is no answer beyond the usual liberal – FAIRNESS garbage.

DP. Are there any health care services specifically for men where a man would hav to make an overnight trip to avail the service? It’s healthcare and should be accessible.

[Anonymous]

Re-upping this thread, given current events…