FCPS Ready to Screw Poorer/GenEd Kids Again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You bought a house in a "4" school zone. Why are you just tealizing that now and trying to pretend it isn't?

Jackson is currently rated a "6" and was probably a 7 or 8 before the latest change in the GS methodology.

Your pyramid is Falls Church. It has a "4" rating. THAT is the pyramid you bought into if you are one of the families not being re-zoned at Jackson. Were you somehow thinking that your MS was a 6 or 7, so your HS would eventually improve too? Falls Church has been a lower performing school for some time now. That's not news.

Those from Oakton HS (or Madison HS) who were just visiting your pyramid for MS were making LJ's population look better than it apparently is on its own. Yes, you bought in a "4" rated pyramid. Own it. There are still kids at LJ and FCHS that ARE doing well. But, I suspect that you aren't worried so much about your kids.... you know they will do well. You are worried about your housing values when LJ becomes a 6 (or perhaps a 5). It still won't be a 4, though. Take comfort in that. The center will definitely keep scores higher than they otherwise would be. So, it (the MS rating) won't depress your house value that much. Ultimately, though, the HS is what brings people into the pyramid or pushes them out. I think improving results at Falls Church is a separate issue -- much more difficult b/c of the type of "affordable" housing that is in that area. The county board of supervisors did that. Not sure the school board should be in the position of "fixing" that. Seems that the school board should be providing each population with the same tools/resources. What each population does with those resources is up to them.

FWIW, Jackson wasn't an 8. It was a 7. Still is a "7" based on the test scores (which is what people are now learning they need to use).

GreatSchools doesn't rate pyramids. It rates individual schools and entire school districts. It does so, in part, because they know people look at other schools in an area besides the high school.

Also, stop making assumptions about my housing values. They may be incorrect, and your repeatedly bringing this up suggests that you're the one thinking about the positive impact that getting redistricted to Thoreau might have on your own property values, which is about the last thing that ought to drive the School Board's analysis here.

Finally, your reducing the discussion to whether FCPS is providing each school population with the "same tools/resources" suggests that you either don't know or don't care about the history of segregation in this country and the rejection of "separate, but equal" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

A peer group which is incredibly white and wealthy when they arrive at Madison.

[Anonymous]

Is anyone from Fairhill boundary going on Thursday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

Funny how parents in other pyramids are happy to send their kids to AAP centers in other pyramids, as long as those centers don't have a significantly lower-income student population.

In any event, FCPS staff's analysis of the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting assumes that every single LLIV-eligible student zoned for Thoreau after the move will opt for the AAP center at Jackson instead. From reading your post, it sounds like that assumption is likely to be off significantly, which will only magnify the change to Jackson's demographics.

They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You bought a house in a "4" school zone. Why are you just tealizing that now and trying to pretend it isn't?

Jackson is currently rated a "6" and was probably a 7 or 8 before the latest change in the GS methodology.

Your pyramid is Falls Church. It has a "4" rating. THAT is the pyramid you bought into if you are one of the families not being re-zoned at Jackson. Were you somehow thinking that your MS was a 6 or 7, so your HS would eventually improve too? Falls Church has been a lower performing school for some time now. That's not news.

Those from Oakton HS (or Madison HS) who were just visiting your pyramid for MS were making LJ's population look better than it apparently is on its own. Yes, you bought in a "4" rated pyramid. Own it. There are still kids at LJ and FCHS that ARE doing well. But, I suspect that you aren't worried so much about your kids.... you know they will do well. You are worried about your housing values when LJ becomes a 6 (or perhaps a 5). It still won't be a 4, though. Take comfort in that. The center will definitely keep scores higher than they otherwise would be. So, it (the MS rating) won't depress your house value that much. Ultimately, though, the HS is what brings people into the pyramid or pushes them out. I think improving results at Falls Church is a separate issue -- much more difficult b/c of the type of "affordable" housing that is in that area. The county board of supervisors did that. Not sure the school board should be in the position of "fixing" that. Seems that the school board should be providing each population with the same tools/resources. What each population does with those resources is up to them.

FWIW, Jackson wasn't an 8. It was a 7. Still is a "7" based on the test scores (which is what people are now learning they need to use).

GreatSchools doesn't rate pyramids. It rates individual schools and entire school districts. It does so, in part, because they know people look at other schools in an area besides the high school.

Also, stop making assumptions about my housing values. They may be incorrect, and your repeatedly bringing this up suggests that you're the one thinking about the positive impact that getting redistricted to Thoreau might have on your own property values, which is about the last thing that ought to drive the School Board's analysis here.

Finally, your reducing the discussion to whether FCPS is providing each school population with the "same tools/resources" suggests that you either don't know or don't care about the history of segregation in this country and the rejection of "separate, but equal" schools.

Great schools rates Falls Church HS. You know, the high school that is your pyramid HS. We call it "Falls Church pyramid" based on the name of the HS. So, yes, great schools rates your HIGH SCHOOL as a 4 and therefore when people look at your high school PYRAMID, they consider that all schools funnel into a "4" school for HS.

My housing value won't change. I'm not one of those being rezoned.

"separate but equal" is based on the gov. doing the separating for the purpose of keeping people separate. That is quite different than when people themselves live in certain areas b/c that's what they can afford. You prioritize SES balancing/engineering. I would agree that it could be relevant to consider those issues in making a decision. I just don't think it should be the #1 determinative factor. Sometimes, there are good reasons for making a decision that does have secondary effects on the SES balance in a school. Sometimes the neutral factors outweigh the SES factors. You don't think this is one of those times. I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

Funny how parents in other pyramids are happy to send their kids to AAP centers in other pyramids, as long as those centers don't have a significantly lower-income student population.

In any event, FCPS staff's analysis of the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting assumes that every single LLIV-eligible student zoned for Thoreau after the move will opt for the AAP center at Jackson instead. From reading your post, it sounds like that assumption is likely to be off significantly, which will only magnify the change to Jackson's demographics.

They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

They could consider getting rid of LLIV at Thoreau. There were significant numbers of children attending Jackson and then going onto Madison and Oakton before and they were all segregated into special AAP classes. None of these kids started either high school without knowing other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

Funny how parents in other pyramids are happy to send their kids to AAP centers in other pyramids, as long as those centers don't have a significantly lower-income student population.

In any event, FCPS staff's analysis of the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting assumes that every single LLIV-eligible student zoned for Thoreau after the move will opt for the AAP center at Jackson instead. From reading your post, it sounds like that assumption is likely to be off significantly, which will only magnify the change to Jackson's demographics.

They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

Where did you hear that? At the TMS orientation on 2/15 we were told that all AAP kids whose base MS is Thoreau have already been loaded into TMS's system. If we pick LJ, we need to request a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

A peer group which is incredibly white and wealthy when they arrive at Madison.

That is beside the point I was making -- but clearly, you see everything in terms of "wealthy and white" vs. "the rest of us" (I bet you are at least as "wealthy" as I am, if not moreso). My kid would like to have friends for more than 2 years. It is not easy for kids to make real bonds... especially for kids who aren't super mature and outgoing. MS will be my kid's 4th school in fcps. I would like it to be with kids he can stay with through 12 grade.

No one knows how many AAP kids will stay at LJ or go to TMS. If you read the other thread about TMS, you might think it is a 2nd rate school -- so obviously, anyone who cares about academics would go to LJ! FCPS doesn't know how many will go to either school b/c until they make the decision on rezoning, many of the LJ AAP kids can't go their. The rezoning should have been done long ago rather than wait until the last minute and put
all these kids and parents in limbo with their decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You bought a house in a "4" school zone. Why are you just tealizing that now and trying to pretend it isn't?

Jackson is currently rated a "6" and was probably a 7 or 8 before the latest change in the GS methodology.

Your pyramid is Falls Church. It has a "4" rating. THAT is the pyramid you bought into if you are one of the families not being re-zoned at Jackson. Were you somehow thinking that your MS was a 6 or 7, so your HS would eventually improve too? Falls Church has been a lower performing school for some time now. That's not news.

Those from Oakton HS (or Madison HS) who were just visiting your pyramid for MS were making LJ's population look better than it apparently is on its own. Yes, you bought in a "4" rated pyramid. Own it. There are still kids at LJ and FCHS that ARE doing well. But, I suspect that you aren't worried so much about your kids.... you know they will do well. You are worried about your housing values when LJ becomes a 6 (or perhaps a 5). It still won't be a 4, though. Take comfort in that. The center will definitely keep scores higher than they otherwise would be. So, it (the MS rating) won't depress your house value that much. Ultimately, though, the HS is what brings people into the pyramid or pushes them out. I think improving results at Falls Church is a separate issue -- much more difficult b/c of the type of "affordable" housing that is in that area. The county board of supervisors did that. Not sure the school board should be in the position of "fixing" that. Seems that the school board should be providing each population with the same tools/resources. What each population does with those resources is up to them.

FWIW, Jackson wasn't an 8. It was a 7. Still is a "7" based on the test scores (which is what people are now learning they need to use).

GreatSchools doesn't rate pyramids. It rates individual schools and entire school districts. It does so, in part, because they know people look at other schools in an area besides the high school.

Also, stop making assumptions about my housing values. They may be incorrect, and your repeatedly bringing this up suggests that you're the one thinking about the positive impact that getting redistricted to Thoreau might have on your own property values, which is about the last thing that ought to drive the School Board's analysis here.

Finally, your reducing the discussion to whether FCPS is providing each school population with the "same tools/resources" suggests that you either don't know or don't care about the history of segregation in this country and the rejection of "separate, but equal" schools.

Great schools rates Falls Church HS. You know, the high school that is your pyramid HS. We call it "Falls Church pyramid" based on the name of the HS. So, yes, great schools rates your HIGH SCHOOL as a 4 and therefore when people look at your high school PYRAMID, they consider that all schools funnel into a "4" school for HS.

My housing value won't change. I'm not one of those being rezoned.

"separate but equal" is based on the gov. doing the separating for the purpose of keeping people separate. That is quite different than when people themselves live in certain areas b/c that's what they can afford. You prioritize SES balancing/engineering. I would agree that it could be relevant to consider those issues in making a decision. I just don't think it should be the #1 determinative factor. Sometimes, there are good reasons for making a decision that does have secondary effects on the SES balance in a school. Sometimes the neutral factors outweigh the SES factors. You don't think this is one of those times. I do.

No, people look at every school to which they are assigned, particularly since there are so many split pyramids. Falls Church also gets students from elementary schools and another middle school that are outside the Falls Church pyramid. and schools within the Falls Church pyramid also send kids to other high schools like Oakton. Your analysis is simplistic and wrong.

My housing value won't change, either. So perhaps we can acknowledge this is about policy.

The School Board is part of the county government, and setting school boundaries in an inherently political process. It's not like some computer program decided Langley HS have boundaries that stretch across the entire county and only include rich areas, or that Oakton's current boundaries should be so narrow and stretch from Vienna to Herndon. You think the School Board should just opt for what's most convenient; I think they are disserving both students and the county as a whole if they go forward with a proposal that they are on notice, based on prior boundary shifts involving similarly situated schools, will concentrate poverty in schools that already have higher-than-average percentages of ESOL/FARMS kids. Alternatives can and should be explored that would still leave Jackson with contiguous boundaries that would appear to the eye as far less "gerry mandered" than the current Oakton HS boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:26. People did bring this up, but you have to remember that at the time the boundary consideration was fluid, so there were more people from Fairhill for instance asking to be part of the group that would move verses being the ones left at Jackson. FCPS never asked the people remaining what they thought directly either. I agree, it was poor thinking on facilities part, but am not surprised because they also initiated the other poor facility movements. I also think that Vienna residents have been asking facilities for awhile to move to Thoreau. That is why Thoreau started a LLIV program there just a few years ago.

No, that is not why Thoreau stated Level 4. They started it b/c they had a significant number of AAP kids (who are eventually going to go on to Madison HS). And parents did not think it was great for their kids to go out of the pyramid for MS, and then come to HS without having those friendships. It is much better to allow kids to build friendships in MS so that they have a peer group to take with them to HS. Although we are in Madison pyramid, my kid is already out of pyramid for elem. school AAP. I'm glad that TMS has AAP so that my kid can get with the group s/he will ultimately be with for HS. As it is now, s/he will have to build all new friendships in 7th grade -- but if the rezoning goes through, there is a possibility that my kid might actually know SOMEONE (perhaps) in the 7th grade. Without the rezoning, my kid will be starting from scratch... but better to get started on that in 7th grade than wait 'til 9th grade (as would happen if there was no AAP at TMS and DC had to go to LJ for AAP).

AAP at TMS was something parents wanted so that kids could be with a single peer group rather than being torn away from friends several times. It wasn't a secret plot to escape LJ.

Funny how parents in other pyramids are happy to send their kids to AAP centers in other pyramids, as long as those centers don't have a significantly lower-income student population.

In any event, FCPS staff's analysis of the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting assumes that every single LLIV-eligible student zoned for Thoreau after the move will opt for the AAP center at Jackson instead. From reading your post, it sounds like that assumption is likely to be off significantly, which will only magnify the change to Jackson's demographics.

They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

Where did you hear that? At the TMS orientation on 2/15 we were told that all AAP kids whose base MS is Thoreau have already been loaded into TMS's system. If we pick LJ, we need to request a change.

It is in the presentation materials for the 2/22 School Board meeting prepared by the Facilities staff: "[The recommended] option assumes that all AAP students would still attend Jackson MS AAP Center and that no high school boundaries will change as a result of this boundary study."

[Anonymous]

Housing values will likely increase for those neighborhoods getting rezoned from Jackson to Thoreau. I don't know why anyone is assuming they won't. It is further segregation and puts those kids into a higher ranking and higher income middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone from Fairhill boundary going on Thursday?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

Where did you hear that? At the TMS orientation on 2/15 we were told that all AAP kids whose base MS is Thoreau have already been loaded into TMS's system. If we pick LJ, we need to request a change.

If your child goes to a center for AAP, they are automatically assigned to Jackson (center). If your child went to a local level IV - they will be assigned to Thoreau. If you want to change either one of these, you need to submit a form indicating this change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They really need to go back to the drawing board on this one and make sure they know what they are doing.

Where did you hear that? At the TMS orientation on 2/15 we were told that all AAP kids whose base MS is Thoreau have already been loaded into TMS's system. If we pick LJ, we need to request a change.

If your child goes to a center for AAP, they are automatically assigned to Jackson (center). If your child went to a local level IV - they will be assigned to Thoreau. If you want to change either one of these, you need to submit a form indicating this change.

Is this how they calculated the future projections for the Thoreau boundary study? It looks like the study is saying all the kids who are in LLIV would elect to go to Jackson instead of Thoreau.