FCPS's "reduced quality of public education due to the illegal situation"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax is being bankrupted by ESOL AND SPECIAL EDUCATION. Pretty simple to google this

Special Needs kids, and ESOL people know this and are/have been flocking to FCPS

Most active people don't talk about this because they are content to game the system through the AAP system which also costs $$

The average normal kids are getting screwed which ironically is the opposite of what usually happens in public schools who typically handle the middle well and not the top and bottom

Sadly, this was our observation as well.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax is being bankrupted by ESOL AND SPECIAL EDUCATION. Pretty simple to google this

Special Needs kids, and ESOL people know this and are/have been flocking to FCPS

Most active people don't talk about this because they are content to game the system through the AAP system which also costs $$

The average normal kids are getting screwed which ironically is the opposite of what usually happens in public schools who typically handle the middle well and not the top and bottom

Sadly, this was our observation as well.

+1

And this has been going on for decades. My parents knew this 30 years ago when I went off to K. They saw how little money and resources were spent on regular students vs. honor/AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically:
1) Name a school currently impacted.

2) What % of students there are "illegal"?

How do you propose anyone finds this information? Schools aren't allowed to inquire about a student's legal status.

+1000

Almost everything about illegal aliens is based on estimates instead of facts, since illegals are first and foremost illegally present in our country.

Ok. So if no one even knows if there are "illegal aliens" in the schools then how is it such a problem?

There is one definitive source for some of the illegals. Obama's unaccompanied minors . Fairfax County got 4220 between Oct 2013-Sept 2017. 966 from Oct 2016-Sept 2017. Remember they get released to a specific parent-guardian. FCPS membership as of sept 2017=189029. 2.2% are Obama's minors. Budget 2018 has ESOL alone at an average of 2800/student for school based staff net of grants and any other offsetting revenue.

ESOL for 4220*2800=11,816,000 alone based on averages. So that alone is about .5 cent on the property taxes. Hot in the deluge we had a 4 cent property tax increase-yielding 23m for each cent increase. The ESOL number is NET and is taxpayers cost for just 1 component. Add in smaller class sizes, social services, facilities, etc and the per pupil cost is staggering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax is being bankrupted by ESOL AND SPECIAL EDUCATION. Pretty simple to google this

Special Needs kids, and ESOL people know this and are/have been flocking to FCPS

Most active people don't talk about this because they are content to game the system through the AAP system which also costs $$

The average normal kids are getting screwed which ironically is the opposite of what usually happens in public schools who typically handle the middle well and not the top and bottom

Sadly, this was our observation as well.

^^^
This x 10,000. There's plenty of data to back this up as well. Kids in the middle are getting screwed, hence the scramble by everyone to get their kids in AAP or gifted programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically:
1) Name a school currently impacted.

2) What % of students there are "illegal"?

How do you propose anyone finds this information? Schools aren't allowed to inquire about a student's legal status.

+1000

Almost everything about illegal aliens is based on estimates instead of facts, since illegals are first and foremost illegally present in our country.

Ok. So if no one even knows if there are "illegal aliens" in the schools then how is it such a problem?

There is one definitive source for some of the illegals. Obama's unaccompanied minors . Fairfax County got 4220 between Oct 2013-Sept 2017. 966 from Oct 2016-Sept 2017. Remember they get released to a specific parent-guardian. FCPS membership as of sept 2017=189029. 2.2% are Obama's minors. Budget 2018 has ESOL alone at an average of 2800/student for school based staff net of grants and any other offsetting revenue.

ESOL for 4220*2800=11,816,000 alone based on averages. So that alone is about .5 cent on the property taxes. Hot in the deluge we had a 4 cent property tax increase-yielding 23m for each cent increase. The ESOL number is NET and is taxpayers cost for just 1 component. Add in smaller class sizes, social services, facilities, etc and the per pupil cost is staggering.

And this is why Trump won. The liberals would rather import more illegal immigrants even when it comes at a big cost to taxpaying citizens. (And I'm not talking about the property tax increase - I'm talking about the decline in public education).

[Anonymous]

Once again, at most suburban schools this has far more to do with the focus on top 10 percent kids than those in the bottom 10 percent. Average kids are being warehoused as schools use guidance and superior teachers to compete for the most college scholarship $. Lots of evidence to support this. Top 10 percent scores way up. Everyone else's scores going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically:
1) Name a school currently impacted.

2) What % of students there are "illegal"?

How do you propose anyone finds this information? Schools aren't allowed to inquire about a student's legal status.

+1000

Almost everything about illegal aliens is based on estimates instead of facts, since illegals are first and foremost illegally present in our country.

Ok. So if no one even knows if there are "illegal aliens" in the schools then how is it such a problem?

There is one definitive source for some of the illegals. Obama's unaccompanied minors . Fairfax County got 4220 between Oct 2013-Sept 2017. 966 from Oct 2016-Sept 2017. Remember they get released to a specific parent-guardian. FCPS membership as of sept 2017=189029. 2.2% are Obama's minors. Budget 2018 has ESOL alone at an average of 2800/student for school based staff net of grants and any other offsetting revenue.

ESOL for 4220*2800=11,816,000 alone based on averages. So that alone is about .5 cent on the property taxes. Hot in the deluge we had a 4 cent property tax increase-yielding 23m for each cent increase. The ESOL number is NET and is taxpayers cost for just 1 component. Add in smaller class sizes, social services, facilities, etc and the per pupil cost is staggering.

And this is why Trump won. The liberals would rather import more illegal immigrants even when it comes at a big cost to taxpaying citizens. (And I'm not talking about the property tax increase - I'm talking about the decline in public education).

You'll find that liberals are the very worst of education snobs and not at all interested in importing immigrants or low income students into their school zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who deny that being in school with poor kids from uneducated families, my personal experience (from 40+ years ago) reveals the truth:

My parents lived in a nice middle-class area, and I was sent to the assigned school. We had "tracking" (the gifted program), and I was in the top track from grade 1 through grade 4. I was challenged and loved school.

Then they re-drew the district line, and my house "missed" the nice middle class school by one block. I was diverted to the poorer school, despite my parents trying to fight it (I didn't understand why at the time), and transferred to the poor school (kids with uneducated parents) in fifth grade. They were learning the math that I had mastered in 2nd grade! They were reading books that I read at age 7! Then it was on to the poor junior high school. These kids were not academic (to put it mildly) and bullied the "smart" kids who took their studies seriously. It was horrible. I learned the material, but it was boring, and I hatred school.

My parents moved to a new neighborhood, and more expensive house, just as I entered high school. There I met the same kids that I knew from my first elementary school (grades 1 - 4). They were light years ahead of me! After years of straight As, I brought home BS and Cs. After a year, I had caught up, went back to my high grades, and went on to college and grad school. But if my parents hadn't moved and I remained in the poor school, I would have gone to a mediocre college - if that.

No one is denying that schools with high FARMs/ESOL struggle. The point was that you can't blame it all on illegal immigration. People from all income-levels - including those here legally - move to the DC area for the job opportunities. The issue is that the low-income housing is all concentrated in pockets rather than being spread out more evenly across the area. If the schools across the area reflected the area demographics then many more schools would be thriving. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution for this. Rich Bs in McLean (who pretend to be accountants) don't want affordable housing near them and would fight like crazy to keep it out.

You do realize that a large number of people living in low cost housing in McLean are Asians who have pooled their family money so that kids could get on the track through Longfellow MS to TJ. Failing that they could still go to top performing McLean and Langley High Schools.

[Anonymous]

Arlington is a perfect example of this. Hop on over to the middle school redistricting thread to see the hypocrisy. I’ve always been blue dog Democrat but I’ve considered voting republican because illegal immigration and esl farms numbers are out of control.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who noted that nice SF homes are being rented to illegals who burden neighborhood schools. Regardless of our politics, I think all reasonable people can agree that illegal immigration has been detrimental to our schools and neighborhoods. FARMS and ESOL students require a lot of resources, which limits the amount left for everyone else. We need a to wake up and crack down. How are we letting people overstay visas, waltz across the border, come here to deliver anchor babies?

How do you know they are "illegals"? FARM and ESOL does not mean "illegal".

Everyone knows. You are grasping at straws.

Stop making assumptions. FARMS and ESOL does not mean "illegal".

And yet...

We all know they are illegal.

Sigh.

No, we don't. BS.

Come ON. People who aren't delusional and engaged in magical thinking know the obvious.

You just can't stand that your Liberal policies have contributed to the horrible decline in our local schools.

Plus, not a single liberal has criticized the illegal immigrant upthread (she admitted it) who bragged about having her kids in ESOL - but also bragging that she having herself "steered away" from high ESOL schools since she wants her kids to get a good education. What a hypocrite.

I don't doubt that there are people in this area who are here illegally, but you are assuming that every school full of low-income, ESOL kids is FULL of "illegal" kids. It's just not true. You're using these kids as your own personal "boogeyman". Sounds like Breibert hype.

Yes, but you still refuse to acknowledge the scummy way the "illegal" upthread is behaving.....saying proudly that her kids are on ESOL, but that she intentionally steered away from schools that had a lot of ESOL kids like her own. She is admitting, in so many words, that kids like hers are causing a decline for people in moderate neighborhoods - and that she doesn't want her kids going to school among them.

And did you have to end with the Breitbart smack? (I've never even read it.) Why can't liberals debate without ending everything with a personal insult? How about a personal insult for an illegal immigrant who doesn't want her ESOL kids in schools with high ESOL numbers because she knows those schools are crappy?

Is the lady upthread some kind of official spokeswoman or something? Why does her single personal narrative hold so much weight with you? Moreover, since when is the single personal narrative off someone on an anonymous forum considered credible?

Still can't criticize her though, can you?

Sounds like she came from a tough background and is just trying to do the best she can for her kids. Just like the rest of us. Would you really do anything differently if you were in her shoes?

Yup...still can't criticize her. Liberals simply are so programmed to defend lawbreakers at all cost that will not say a bad word about someone who is illegal! I'm talking about her hypocrisy - saying that she has ESOL kids but she made sure she didn't put them in a school with a high ESOL population since those schools are bad. She doesn't want her own kids to have to be among others like them.

What would you do if you were in her situation?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

I wouldn't BE in her situation. I follow laws. And if I didn't, I would not mock the stupidity of Americans (which she did) and then brag about putting my ESOL kids in a school with low ESOL numbers to avoid the problems people such as I have created.

And I'm still waiting for you to criticize her for her hypocrisy.

So you and your kids would still be in El Salvador (or wherever), a third-world country with limited access to medical care and eduction. One of the highest murder rates in the world. No access to safe drinking water. Your kids would likely end up pulled into gang violence. You'd just stay there and not try to provide more for your children?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Let's look at this in practical terms. These kids are here. Some of them have parents who came illegally and some have parents who came illegally. But they are being raised here now. They're growing up as American kids. The school system is legally obligated to educate all children who live here. The school system does not make immigration policy. I think we should be able to agree that it is better to educate a generation than create a generation that can't participate in society. In other words, if you think you don't like Hispanic immigrants now, just imagine how much you wouldn't like it if none of their kids ever learned English or graduated from high school.

Great perspective.

The problem is you don't lay out the welcome mat and create a magnet for these types of populations in the first place. This started over 30 years ago with lack of housing enforcement and turning a blind eye and now you have entire pyramids that are overrun. Classic case is Annandale HS which has gone from a great school to average to below average in less than 15 years

Its basically too late at this point. Once the first generation comes everyone else follows suit once they come over

Almost all the schools inside the beltway are overun at this point, the Route 1 corridor is the same, and Herndon has another cluster of failure

Roughly 1/3 of Fairfax is elite at this point, the second 1/3 is fine, but the bottom 1/3 is a hellhole. If you look at the trend lines the problem is just getting worse. Part of the reason Loudoun keeps adding schools is the white flight out of FCPS. The elites living in the top 1/3 of Fairfax have no idea whats going on in the county and if things truely go south they can always go to private school. It's the middle 1/3 that has to deal with the consequences.

+1

Wealthy people in both parties (Democrats and Republicans) send their kids to Private school or live in the area that are not affected by illegal immigration. It’s the Middle class that has to watch their schools deteriorate and watch while class sizes get larger as more and more money gets allocated to ESOL.

You mean, what you perceive as "illegal immigration". Please provide some facts to support your "boogeyman" fantasy.

Get in your luxury suv and Ride down route 7 past seven corners into baileys crossroafs take 236 west thriugh annandale go south and take a tour of springfield head east through franconia and then head south down route 1 into culmore. That whole area

Also check out herndon

Illegals everywhere sucking down tax dollars screwing the middle class wake up limousine liberal

So they are low-income and speak Spanish. WTF do you assume these people are illegal?

If they are legal, they should have no problem producing evidence of that, hmmm? Like a birth certificate or passport?

Sure. Have you asked them for that?

No, but I’m hoping this administration will successfully implement policy that requires proof of legal residency to enroll in public school. Right now, if a warm body shows up they have to be educated at taxpayer expense. That open-door has to be shut.

Why? These kids are here. They are growing up in a low-income environment. Do you want them to be educated and better able to contribute to society OR keep them uneducated?

Instead of giving corporations huge tax cuts why aren't we putting more money into education? Let's lift up those around us instead of lining the pockets of greedy CEOs.

Waiting on this answer too....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Numbers for everyone:


https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/dchs/adultservices/UndocumentedImmigrantsinVAandNOVA.pdf

FAIRFAX LARGEST UNDOCUMENTED POPULATIONS
El Salvador, Hondouras, Korea, Bolivia and Guatelmala

POPULATION: 83,000
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
FROM STATE FIGURES
96% of children 3 to 17
enrolled in school

CENTRAL AMERICAN MINORS

From October 1, 2015, to January 31, 2016, 24,616 families and 20,455 unaccompanied children—the vast majority from Central America—were apprehended at the southwestern US border, double the total from the same time period the year before.

205 were placed in Alexandria in 2014--13 in every 1,000 school children, the highest ratio of any jurisdiction in the country

1,023 were placed in Fairfax in 2014

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/09/20/2-state-unauthorized-immigrant-populations/



A variety of other countries dominate the unauthorized immigrant population in other states. El Salvador is the leading birth country in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia.

Assuming those estimates are accurate:

Out of the estimated 83,000 undocumented people living in Fairfax, 24% are children; and 93% of those are enrolled in schools.

So 18,525 children out of 189,000 in FCPS; 9.8% undocumented.

https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps
17% ESOL
28% FARM
25% Hispanic

So less than 1/2 of those people you despise are illegal.

And here are the numbers. You are getting played - illegal immigration is not the root issue here.

ESOL/FARM <> Illegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically:
1) Name a school currently impacted.

2) What % of students there are "illegal"?

How do you propose anyone finds this information? Schools aren't allowed to inquire about a student's legal status.

+1000

Almost everything about illegal aliens is based on estimates instead of facts, since illegals are first and foremost illegally present in our country.

Ok. So if no one even knows if there are "illegal aliens" in the schools then how is it such a problem?

There is one definitive source for some of the illegals. Obama's unaccompanied minors . Fairfax County got 4220 between Oct 2013-Sept 2017. 966 from Oct 2016-Sept 2017. Remember they get released to a specific parent-guardian. FCPS membership as of sept 2017=189029. 2.2% are Obama's minors. Budget 2018 has ESOL alone at an average of 2800/student for school based staff net of grants and any other offsetting revenue.

ESOL for 4220*2800=11,816,000 alone based on averages. So that alone is about .5 cent on the property taxes. Hot in the deluge we had a 4 cent property tax increase-yielding 23m for each cent increase. The ESOL number is NET and is taxpayers cost for just 1 component. Add in smaller class sizes, social services, facilities, etc and the per pupil cost is staggering.

And this is why Trump won. The liberals would rather import more illegal immigrants even when it comes at a big cost to taxpaying citizens. (And I'm not talking about the property tax increase - I'm talking about the decline in public education).

You'll find that liberals are the very worst of education snobs and not at all interested in importing immigrants or low income students into their school zones.

Yes, and as long as they can send their kids to private school or live in affluent (non-ESOL) districts, they're fine. Just meander over to the college forum and see how they put down schools that are considered 2nd, or Heaven forbid, 3rd tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Numbers for everyone:


https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/dchs/adultservices/UndocumentedImmigrantsinVAandNOVA.pdf

FAIRFAX LARGEST UNDOCUMENTED POPULATIONS
El Salvador, Hondouras, Korea, Bolivia and Guatelmala

POPULATION: 83,000
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
FROM STATE FIGURES
96% of children 3 to 17
enrolled in school

CENTRAL AMERICAN MINORS

From October 1, 2015, to January 31, 2016, 24,616 families and 20,455 unaccompanied children—the vast majority from Central America—were apprehended at the southwestern US border, double the total from the same time period the year before.

205 were placed in Alexandria in 2014--13 in every 1,000 school children, the highest ratio of any jurisdiction in the country

1,023 were placed in Fairfax in 2014

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/09/20/2-state-unauthorized-immigrant-populations/



A variety of other countries dominate the unauthorized immigrant population in other states. El Salvador is the leading birth country in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia.

Assuming those estimates are accurate:

Out of the estimated 83,000 undocumented people living in Fairfax, 24% are children; and 93% of those are enrolled in schools.

So 18,525 children out of 189,000 in FCPS; 9.8% undocumented.

https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps
17% ESOL
28% FARM
25% Hispanic

So less than 1/2 of those people you despise are illegal.

And here are the numbers. You are getting played - illegal immigration is not the root issue here.

ESOL/FARM <> Illegal

So wait....you are telling me that 10% - or one out every every ten students - in Fairfax County is ILLEGAL? (Cut the crap with the "undocumented" label.) Since the affluent areas have a much lower percentage, it's reasonable to believe that 20% of students in poorer areas are illegal. That's one out of every five students. No womder these schools are rated 4 and below.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And here are the numbers. You are getting played - illegal immigration is not the root issue here.

ESOL/FARM <> Illegal

Regardless of how much you yell, you're like an ostrich putting your head in the sand. While ESOL/FARM <> Illegal, the facts remain that even half of those 83K students being illegals is tapping dwindling school resources to support them. Providing additional teachers and resources to teach 40K illegal immigrant students is taking millions of dollars of resources for teacher salaries, teaching materials from legal immigrants and citizen children. The ones who will suffer the most are the legal immigrants who are forced to share ESOL resources with illegal immigrant children. The legal immigrant children now have extremely overpopulated classes and less individual attention because teachers don't have the time to spend as much time with each student when their class sizes are up to 50% larger. If you were to prohibit illegal immigrant children from using school resources, you could better support your legal immigrant population, teaching them English and getting them up to speed faster for integration into regular classes. The class sizes would shrink, there would be more money to provide better support for the ESOL population that remained. There would be more money for FARM support per child, so that there would be better support the low income legal residents of the county. And there would be more money to provide additional benefits to all students throughout the county.

This isn't about ESOL/FARMS. Isn't about using the resources of the county to better support legal citizens and residents including legal immigrants instead of supporting illegal immigrants.