Husband Turned Catholic on Me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really, you're not up to speed on the church. Many, many parishes have female altar servers.

I'm sure many do. But do all of them allow female altar servers? What is the Church's position on those that do not allow them? Does it support the priest's decision to discriminate against girls?

I don't know how anyone can defend that kind of discrimination.

I agree. After a full school week of learning how women are strong, brave, smart and all around better than useless boys, this will scar the girls for life

I certainly hope this is sarcasm. I forbade my DD to buy a t-shirt that said "Boys are Stupid! Throw Rocks at Them!" I asked her how should would feel if the same shirt were aimed at girls. I pity any woman who puts down men who has been gifted with a son!

Yes, it was sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

OP, you should be going to mass too.

[Anonymous]

Make him take the kids with him. Seriously (even if you hate the church.)

I'm a fallen away Catholic (now agnostic) who really hates the church's teachings on women's reproductive rights. I think it's scandalous how its covered up the abuses. I'd say I also don't love the teachings about women's roles in the church and how only men can be priests, but since becoming agnostic I've stopped caring about that.

BUT I will say that I know it is hard for Catholics to embrace another church. When you're raised in the church it's ingrained in you that yours is the one and only true church. No other church except for the Orthodox will satisfy the "holy obligation" of weekly mass. There's a ritual to it that other church's services just don't satisfy. I bet that is where your DH is coming from.

You can't force your DH to believe or not to believe. You can talk to your kids about why you disagree with daddy's church on particular issues. You can ask DH to go to 6 or 7 am mass at least while the kids are young. You can take an hour of your own on the weekend to do something for you so you don't feel like it's lopsided.

You probably should see a counselor to figure out what this means for your marriage if your DH is feeling his way back to some kind of spirituality and you don't have it - because that can create a rift between the two of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the replies but want to mention something, OP. There is a very interesting paperback book that's worth reading called Rediscover Catholicism, A Spiritual Gide to Living with Passion & Purpose by Matthew Kelly.

I bring it up because I was raised Catholic and am very much a Catholic-light-type, so I am sympathetic to your situation. On the other hand, there is a big difference between what's going on in Rome, or even at the American Cardinal/Bishop level and what goes on at a particular parish. For instance, my kids go to a Catholic school that is connected to a parish and it's a very healthy community; the priest is lively and engaging; the families are lovely.

Some parts of the larger institution are toxic, and those parts get a lot of media attention. But on the local level, it can be a very positive experience.

Now the book comes in because it can help explain what Catholicism is supposed to be about and probably what your DH is connecting to. For instance, the whole concept of hospitals is a Catholic concept. In Jesus's time all those lepers were just out on the street to die. The Catholic concept of a hospital is *not* connected to faith--they will take anyone, not just a believer, and it's not about converting a patient, it's just about helping another human being.

Anyways, just want to mention stuff like this because there is a way to reframe this situation; one way to look at it is your DH is moving away from your values and beliefs, but that framing isn't helpful to your marriage so I'm trying to help you get a different angle on it.

Now 11am mass to cut into your day? That's a different issue and yup, that is worth a negotiation.

Unless, of course, it's a woman who suffers from a pregnancy that is killing her - then they won't do anything to help her unless/until the fetus dies or is expelled from the uterus without intervention.

Sorry, just had to say that. I gave birth at a Catholic hospital twice and know they do good work (although despite all the rhetoric, they don't take in as high a percentage of indigent patients as non-Catholic hospitals do - look it up). But the recent cases out there where women have died or come close to dying because the hospital refused to abort a pregnancy gone wrong are truly galling, and the prospect of more and more hospitals being taken over by the Catholic church and then refusing to do tubal ligations, give women who have just been raped any kind of treatment to prevent pregnancy, etc. is scary news for anyone who cares about women's health.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/husband-ireland-hospital-denied-savita-halappanavar-life-saving-abortion-because-it-is-a-catholic-country/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/opinion/womens-health-care-at-risk.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/us/lawsuit-challenges-anti-abortion-policies-at-catholic-hospitals.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/03/catholic_hospitals_grim_hypocrisy_letting_women_suffer_in_the_name_of_life/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/angela-bonavoglia/reproductive-crisis-do-no_b_602086.html

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/03/25/dont-take-her-to-catholic-hospital/

[Anonymous]

Here is a good counterpoint to all the bashing of the Catholic Church as "anti-woman " Jane Belford is the retiring Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Washington.

I like how she noted that the "there’s a difference between a career and a vocation. No one has a right to receive a call [to be a priest]. It’s from God. I accept that teaching. And it’s reserved to men, and I’m not concerned about it. Because from my perspective there are so many ways to serve"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-busy-era-ends-with-chancellors-retirement/2014/01/10/41ba7648-7897-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the replies but want to mention something, OP. There is a very interesting paperback book that's worth reading called Rediscover Catholicism, A Spiritual Gide to Living with Passion & Purpose by Matthew Kelly.

I bring it up because I was raised Catholic and am very much a Catholic-light-type, so I am sympathetic to your situation. On the other hand, there is a big difference between what's going on in Rome, or even at the American Cardinal/Bishop level and what goes on at a particular parish. For instance, my kids go to a Catholic school that is connected to a parish and it's a very healthy community; the priest is lively and engaging; the families are lovely.

Some parts of the larger institution are toxic, and those parts get a lot of media attention. But on the local level, it can be a very positive experience.

Now the book comes in because it can help explain what Catholicism is supposed to be about and probably what your DH is connecting to. For instance, the whole concept of hospitals is a Catholic concept. In Jesus's time all those lepers were just out on the street to die. The Catholic concept of a hospital is *not* connected to faith--they will take anyone, not just a believer, and it's not about converting a patient, it's just about helping another human being.

Anyways, just want to mention stuff like this because there is a way to reframe this situation; one way to look at it is your DH is moving away from your values and beliefs, but that framing isn't helpful to your marriage so I'm trying to help you get a different angle on it.

Now 11am mass to cut into your day? That's a different issue and yup, that is worth a negotiation.

Unless, of course, it's a woman who suffers from a pregnancy that is killing her - then they won't do anything to help her unless/until the fetus dies or is expelled from the uterus without intervention.

Sorry, just had to say that. I gave birth at a Catholic hospital twice and know they do good work (although despite all the rhetoric, they don't take in as high a percentage of indigent patients as non-Catholic hospitals do - look it up). But the recent cases out there where women have died or come close to dying because the hospital refused to abort a pregnancy gone wrong are truly galling, and the prospect of more and more hospitals being taken over by the Catholic church and then refusing to do tubal ligations, give women who have just been raped any kind of treatment to prevent pregnancy, etc. is scary news for anyone who cares about women's health.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/husband-ireland-hospital-denied-savita-halappanavar-life-saving-abortion-because-it-is-a-catholic-country/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/opinion/womens-health-care-at-risk.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/us/lawsuit-challenges-anti-abortion-policies-at-catholic-hospitals.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/03/catholic_hospitals_grim_hypocrisy_letting_women_suffer_in_the_name_of_life/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/angela-bonavoglia/reproductive-crisis-do-no_b_602086.html

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/03/25/dont-take-her-to-catholic-hospital/

Ok, PP, you can rebut all I wrote, but my point was to help OP, in this case by reframing the situation. It's not helping OP to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of some hospital idiots who don't have the teachings right (because that is not the Church's teachings when a woman's life is in jeopardy) But all that is off-point.

PP, I completely agree that the Church is f'd up in a variety of ways. I'm just saying that if her DH is attracted to it, he's probably attracted to the good part of it, not the toxic part of it, and focusing on that may help them seem less far apart on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a good counterpoint to all the bashing of the Catholic Church as "anti-woman " Jane Belford is the retiring Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Washington.

I like how she noted that the "there’s a difference between a career and a vocation. No one has a right to receive a call [to be a priest]. It’s from God. I accept that teaching. And it’s reserved to men, and I’m not concerned about it. Because from my perspective there are so many ways to serve"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-busy-era-ends-with-chancellors-retirement/2014/01/10/41ba7648-7897-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html

That's not a counterpoint. That's just more dogma to throw at people who don't agree.

[Anonymous]

No, it just goes to show that people can be perfectly happy and a Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really, you're not up to speed on the church. Many, many parishes have female altar servers.

I'm sure many do. But do all of them allow female altar servers? What is the Church's position on those that do not allow them? Does it support the priest's decision to discriminate against girls?

I don't know how anyone can defend that kind of discrimination.

I agree. After a full school week of learning how women are strong, brave, smart and all around better than useless boys, this will scar the girls for life

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. I was born and raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years at a time when only boys could be alter servers. I was not "scarred for life." I grew up being told by my parents, teachers, nuns, and priests that I was smart, brave, and competent. I now have a wonderful family and successful career, despite the fact that I wasn't able to be an altar server.

There are plenty of things that boys do that girls do not (and, as others have mentioned, plenty of girls are altar servers now). Is every girl who can't play high school football going to be "scarred for life"? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

I will not be married to, and/or raise children with, someone who practices a religion that believes in oppression.

It seems like you are the oppressor in this scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a good counterpoint to all the bashing of the Catholic Church as "anti-woman " Jane Belford is the retiring Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Washington.

I like how she noted that the "there’s a difference between a career and a vocation. No one has a right to receive a call [to be a priest]. It’s from God. I accept that teaching. And it’s reserved to men, and I’m not concerned about it. Because from my perspective there are so many ways to serve"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-busy-era-ends-with-chancellors-retirement/2014/01/10/41ba7648-7897-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html

That's not a counterpoint. That's just more dogma to throw at people who don't agree.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a good counterpoint to all the bashing of the Catholic Church as "anti-woman " Jane Belford is the retiring Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Washington.

I like how she noted that the "there’s a difference between a career and a vocation. No one has a right to receive a call [to be a priest]. It’s from God. I accept that teaching. And it’s reserved to men, and I’m not concerned about it. Because from my perspective there are so many ways to serve"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-busy-era-ends-with-chancellors-retirement/2014/01/10/41ba7648-7897-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html

Yeah, like it doesn't matter than there are more women executive assistants than CEOs. Bullshit.

[Anonymous]

I was raised Catholic and now I am agnostic (and maybe atheist.)

That said, I really admire many things about the Catholic church, esp. their committment to helping the poor.

I would rather my DH return to CAtholic church than one of those nutty Bible churches. Those churches and the people who attend them drive me insane.

To stereotype hugely, I really like people who attend Catholic church. They are generally low key about religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I will not be married to, and/or raise children with, someone who practices a religion that believes in oppression.

It seems like you are the oppressor in this scenario.

I don't recall the Catholic Church being oppressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I will not be married to, and/or raise children with, someone who practices a religion that believes in oppression.

It seems like you are the oppressor in this scenario.

I don't recall the Catholic Church being oppressive.

There were priests and bishops in Africa who taught that condoms don't prevent AIDS and who are STILL teaching this. That's a public health disaster and pretty damn oppressive.

There are priests and bishops in the US who teach that birth control is a sin and actively campaign against it. That's pretty damn oppressive.

There are priests and bishops in the US who teach that homosexual sex is a sin and actively campaign against gay marriage. That's pretty damn oppressive.

There are hundreds of priests who raped and molested children in their parishes, and the Church worked very hard to cover it up. That's both oppressive and CRIMINAL.