Elderly woman died after carjacking near WHC in NW this afternoon, SUV crashed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This strikes me as a little different than drunk driving. If she was given a drug and had an adverse reaction….that’s different than choosing to drink and drive. I had a family member have an adverse reaction to an meds for dental surgery — they suddenly were trying to jump out of a moving car and hit someone. The nicest person—it was just a weird drug reaction made them suddenly manically depressive and paranoid.
I hope they gave her an immediate tox screen so we can know if the “given a weird drug” story has any basis. She may have gotten weed that was heavily laced with fetanyl, unknown to her, and it induced psychosis.

The “I” in DUI stands for intoxicated. Doesn’t matter if it’s from drugs (including prescription drugs) or alcohol.

My understanding is that DUI does include an intent standard, but normally it’s about intent to drive a vehicle not intent to get intoxicated. I would presume that if you were unintentionally intoxicated, for example roofied, the law wouldn’t necessarily save you but prosecutorial discretion would, considering that your intoxicated state was the result of you being a victim of a separate crime.

Intentionally ingesting drugs then driving is DUI all day long. Even if you didn’t know what drugs you were ingesting.

+1 taking random drugs from randos and then commiting crimes -- yes that would make you a menace to society and a criminal

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

This is so depressing but I can't stop laughing in a very ghoulish way. Horrible but accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This strikes me as a little different than drunk driving. If she was given a drug and had an adverse reaction….that’s different than choosing to drink and drive. I had a family member have an adverse reaction to an meds for dental surgery — they suddenly were trying to jump out of a moving car and hit someone. The nicest person—it was just a weird drug reaction made them suddenly manically depressive and paranoid.
I hope they gave her an immediate tox screen so we can know if the “given a weird drug” story has any basis. She may have gotten weed that was heavily laced with fetanyl, unknown to her, and it induced psychosis.

The “I” in DUI stands for intoxicated. Doesn’t matter if it’s from drugs (including prescription drugs) or alcohol.

My understanding is that DUI does include an intent standard, but normally it’s about intent to drive a vehicle not intent to get intoxicated. I would presume that if you were unintentionally intoxicated, for example roofied, the law wouldn’t necessarily save you but prosecutorial discretion would, considering that your intoxicated state was the result of you being a victim of a separate crime.

Intentionally ingesting drugs then driving is DUI all day long. Even if you didn’t know what drugs you were ingesting.

+1 taking random drugs from randos and then commiting crimes -- yes that would make you a menace to society and a criminal

I believe we have established that this was an Internet dentist, not a rando. It was a bad drug interaction that her completely legitimate online medical professional gave her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

No it isn't. If she were having a stroke, she would go into the ED and get treatment. The carjacking and kidnapping killed her, FFS.

Let’s example plausible causes of death.

1. Car crash.
2. Medical emergency during carjacking and joy ride.
3. Violently attacked during carjacking and joy ride.
4. Medical emergency during the minutely small window of time after relative exited vehicle to get wheelchair and immediately before alleged carjacker entered vehicle.

No rational person would believe that #4 is the most likely.

1. Is because the daughter probably failed to secure the seatbelt. Plenty of blame to go around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This strikes me as a little different than drunk driving. If she was given a drug and had an adverse reaction….that’s different than choosing to drink and drive. I had a family member have an adverse reaction to an meds for dental surgery — they suddenly were trying to jump out of a moving car and hit someone. The nicest person—it was just a weird drug reaction made them suddenly manically depressive and paranoid.
I hope they gave her an immediate tox screen so we can know if the “given a weird drug” story has any basis. She may have gotten weed that was heavily laced with fetanyl, unknown to her, and it induced psychosis.

The “I” in DUI stands for intoxicated. Doesn’t matter if it’s from drugs (including prescription drugs) or alcohol.

My understanding is that DUI does include an intent standard, but normally it’s about intent to drive a vehicle not intent to get intoxicated. I would presume that if you were unintentionally intoxicated, for example roofied, the law wouldn’t necessarily save you but prosecutorial discretion would, considering that your intoxicated state was the result of you being a victim of a separate crime.

Intentionally ingesting drugs then driving is DUI all day long. Even if you didn’t know what drugs you were ingesting.

+1 taking random drugs from randos and then commiting crimes -- yes that would make you a menace to society and a criminal

I believe we have established that this was an Internet dentist, not a rando. It was a bad drug interaction that her completely legitimate online medical professional gave her.

If this is true, then our police-mental health pipeline failed. We have a secure facility in DC for involuntary commitment for people have psychotic breaks--PIW. It has police outside every day, and is a 'locked room' facility when needed. For her protection, and our protection this should have been used. It should be used every time people are raving, and if they need to build a another facility with more beds they should do so. For equity--since the Council/Mayor loves to tout this when putting more facilities in Ward 3--it should NOT be in Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

If so, she probably had a better chance of being revived at the hospital doors, than careening through the District.

[Anonymous]

What cant this just be an all around tragedy? There are two victims here.

[Anonymous]

And the POS thief and murderer ended up at the hospital because she was doing drugs with someone she met through Instagram? Did I read that correctly? What a complete waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What cant this just be an all around tragedy? There are two victims here.

Just because both were at the hospital were at the hospital for treatment and evaluation doesn't make them both victims. The 22 year old who stole the car was at the hospital because she chose to take drugs with a stranger, from what I've read. Hard to view her has a "victim." But I'm sure her family will now spin it as such and try to sue the cops and hospital. You watch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

If so, she probably had a better chance of being revived at the hospital doors, than careening through the District.

How do you know she wasn't being driven to a more qualified medical center for her MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

Literally no one is going to go for that theory. Even a DC jury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What cant this just be an all around tragedy? There are two victims here.

Right, the two victims are the deceased woman and her daughter.

The car jacker/murderer is not a victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

Literally no one is going to go for that theory. Even a DC jury.

I think you will be surprised to find the jury will see the facts and go with the truth which is that there were two victims who were failed by law enforcement and their medical care providers that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need beefed up involuntary commitment in DC it's a travesty they tore down the old DC general site instead of turning it into a state of the art treatment center with ample beds.. There are so many people having mental breaks roaming the streets - and apparently the hospitals too. PIW, the only secure treatment facility, cannot handle them all. But they don't need to - because DC is loathe to commit and treat in the first place. This girl should have been brought to PIW and put in a secure space for evaluation. What a horrible horrible story of two different mothers and daughters. I have no words.

I love when clueless people post drivel like this. Where is the money and staff for these facilities going to come from? Do you realize it is a constant struggle to staff the facilities we already have? Who wants to be paid $40k/yr to sit one on one with a potentially violent criminal? Every day? Then get bit/spit on/assaulted? Not many, I can tell you that. The staff turnover in these facilities is ridiculous. I know. I work at one.

It’s really not about not wanting to commit them. We just don’t have the resources to do it.

Of course we have the resources to build and staff mental health treatment facilities. When there is staff turnover or vacancies, that means that that salaries need to be raised. We need to prioritize keeping our communities safe, so complain to legislators at all levels.

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Anonymous wrote:Kayla Brown’s parents contacted 911 to seek help for their daughter who wasn’t acting normal after consuming drugs. Why did the authorities leave her unattended at the hospital? She should have been under constant supervision by hospital staff or security. I feel that this is the fault of our law enforcement and health care system. We need a better way to address mental illness and drug abuse. The law enforcement and hospital need to take some blame for this event.

Do you realize how much staffing is necessary to stay with every patient like the carjacker? Good luck with that.

I had a family member taken into a an ER on psych watch —- two different hospitals and they both had someone stationed at her door to watch. That’s standard protocol for psych admits. Possible she overpowered that person — they aren’t cops, just staffers. But they do typically assign one on one observation for psych cases. And my family member was just a little depressed—not “acting crazy” like this.

Do we know if the carjacker was a psych admit?

I don't even think she'd been admitted yet. From the sounds of the court documents that were released, she and the woman who died just had the misfortune of arriving at the ER at the same time. It does not sound like a mental health crisis, it sounds like she took bad drugs.

She should absolutely be in jail for carjacking - drugs are no excuse. Unfortunately I have no faith in the DC courts to bother if it was just carjacking. However, the court documents also make it sound like the woman who died was mid-heart attack or stroke en route to the ER entrance. So it will be very, very difficult to prove that Kayla killed her. I certainly don't think she died in the crash - if she died, why wasn't Kayla seriously injured?

If the elderly woman was dead at the time Kayla took the car, it isn’t carjacking. You can’t carjack a vehicle from a dead person.

No one is suggesting she carjacked it from the dead woman. The car didn't even belong to the decedent. The car belonged to the decedent's very-much-alive adult daughter. That is who it was carjacked from.

Carjacking isn’t the same as auto theft. It requires that the suspect take the vehicle from the victim’s immediate actual possession. If the victim is inside the hospital getting a wheelchair, she can’t possibly be in immediate actual possession of a vehicle that’s outside.

So. If a mom runs into the store and it's stolen with a 13 year old child inside, itself not carjacking because the kid doesn't own the car?

No. Try to keep up. If the only person in/around the car is dead, Kayle is guilty of auto theft but not carjacking. It has nothing to do with who owns the car.

DP. It's kidnapping and felony murder unless Brown can prove that the passenger was already deceased before she came anywhere near the vehicle.

She doesn’t have to prove a thing. The prosecution will need to prove the decedent was alive at the moment she took the car.

Yes, the prosecution needs to prove it's case. Not difficult - needing a wheelchair is not something that dead people do.

She had MS and was experiencing a medical emergency that left her unable to feel her legs. Is it really that far fetched to believe that she was deceased at the time the car was taken?

Yes. What are the chances she died waiting for the wheelchair VS the stress of the car being stolen? Slim. I'd believe the daughter's testimony that she would alive over the criminal's that she was dead.

The daughter was already out of the car and her focus was elsewhere. She cannot say one way or the other if the decedent was alive at the time the car was taken.

So the loophole to felony murder is just the person being alone when you committed the crime. Cool. So just make sure you kidnap and rob people who are alone and if they die you can just say they were already dead.

Oh FFS. The decedent had a debilitating neurological disease and was actively experiencing a medical emergency and symptoms of a stroke. It’s not a loophole. It’s a reasonable inference from the facts.

If so, she probably had a better chance of being revived at the hospital doors, than careening through the District.

How do you know she wasn't being driven to a more qualified medical center for her MS?

Omg I love you. I’m DYING