I tipped over the line this week and can’t support Biden

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate it, but I just can’t vote for him. I’ll sit this one out. Given that his competition is Trump, it’s a low low bar. But I just can’t support a guy who is helping conduct a genocide. I’m a white Christian 50 something in Virginia, so it isn’t directly personal to me, but I just can’t do it.

Anyone have any arguments other than “Trump is worse.” I agree, but that alone just isn’t enough anymore.

People like you are the reason why democracy will die in this country.

LOL.
It's getting old and stale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden was also a staunch supporter of the invasion of Iraq. How did that turn out?

There is a growing list of places that were unquestionably better off when Trump was president:

Israel/Palestine
Ukraine
Afghanistan
Yemen
Our southern border

Not sure about Afghanistan with the Mother of all Bombs Trump exploded that probably helped the Taliban take over power in 2021 and lead to our humiliating withdrawal under Biden. A mother of all bombs (whatever that God forsaken thing even is-the first one we ever launched apparently ) certainly wouldn’t make one lean toward an America friendly government . He pushed them to Russia.

He certainly he didn’t help Yemen by giving weapons to the Saudis . He didn’t build any wall on the Southern border. If anything, the strict rules and ICE watchdogs led to a 4 year backlog for migrants during his term and during COVID crushing world economies that meant an even bigger sea of migrants pouring in now and it would’ve happened even if we had a Republican administration currently .

Inflation is also Trumps fault for spending money and printing money like it was going out of style .

Gaza is also his fault. His scammer son in law is childhood friends with Bibi and so the Trump admin let Bibi and Israel go haywire with the settlements, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and just overall killings in the West Bank. Because the Us government didn’t provide the usual stick to Israel and instead Trump gave them a carrot, Netanyahu got power drunk : something Trump even acknowledges. Trumps free pass to Israel definitely led to 10/7 Especially coming from the frigid Obama years where Israel wouldn’t get away with half the things they did like the embassy, and the killing of Palestinian Americans so easily.

The afghan pullout was a blunder of epic proportions.

Bidens border crisis is a disaster . Besides housing illegals in schools and denying students the opportunity to go to schools earlier this year they’re now putting them in VA facilities and using that for illegals and still denying care to vets who need it

Then you need to understand how and why the Afghan pullout happened like it did, and suggest ways it could have been better.
1) Trump closed the state department office that processed special visas like the ones needed for our Afghan friends who were deserted.
2) Trump and Pompeo negotiated a pull out date with the Taliban directly, not the Afghan government
3) Trump pulled out much of our military infrastructure before leaving office.
4) Trump and Pompeo released over 5,000 Taliban fighters before leaving office.

A a result, our Afghan friends could not get visas in a timely manner, not matter how quickly Biden reopened the office (which he did on Jan 20, 2021) our military was a shell of its former presence, the Afghan government was non-existant and we had to fight off a larger force than necessary to even execute as was done with the airlift. Remember, Trump wanted to pull out before he left office, which would have been an even bigger disaster.

The border is bad and has been for decades. That isn't a Biden thing. On thee occasions over the past 30 years, democrats have tried to address the issue legislatively, to give the White House the tools and resources necessary to deal with it effectively, but the GOP bailed on that legislation every time. Why? And yes, there are resources needed to deal with the migrants who are here and who are coming, unless you just want humans dying in the streets, which seems sub-optimal.

NP thank you for taking the time to type this out. This is what these threads need. People have short memories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden was also a staunch supporter of the invasion of Iraq. How did that turn out?

There is a growing list of places that were unquestionably better off when Trump was president:

Israel/Palestine
Ukraine
Afghanistan
Yemen
Our southern border

Not sure about Afghanistan with the Mother of all Bombs Trump exploded that probably helped the Taliban take over power in 2021 and lead to our humiliating withdrawal under Biden. A mother of all bombs (whatever that God forsaken thing even is-the first one we ever launched apparently ) certainly wouldn’t make one lean toward an America friendly government . He pushed them to Russia.

He certainly he didn’t help Yemen by giving weapons to the Saudis . He didn’t build any wall on the Southern border. If anything, the strict rules and ICE watchdogs led to a 4 year backlog for migrants during his term and during COVID crushing world economies that meant an even bigger sea of migrants pouring in now and it would’ve happened even if we had a Republican administration currently .

Inflation is also Trumps fault for spending money and printing money like it was going out of style .

Gaza is also his fault. His scammer son in law is childhood friends with Bibi and so the Trump admin let Bibi and Israel go haywire with the settlements, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and just overall killings in the West Bank. Because the Us government didn’t provide the usual stick to Israel and instead Trump gave them a carrot, Netanyahu got power drunk : something Trump even acknowledges. Trumps free pass to Israel definitely led to 10/7 Especially coming from the frigid Obama years where Israel wouldn’t get away with half the things they did like the embassy, and the killing of Palestinian Americans so easily.

The afghan pullout was a blunder of epic proportions.

Bidens border crisis is a disaster . Besides housing illegals in schools and denying students the opportunity to go to schools earlier this year they’re now putting them in VA facilities and using that for illegals and still denying care to vets who need it

+100
There is a reason Biden's polls sunk immediately after the pull out and have never recovered.
The American voter is seeing what a disaster his administration is. And, it is not just Biden. It is also the people he has in his cabinet and people advising him. Total disaster.
At this point, there is nothing Biden can do WRT the border to make me vote for a Democrat. He is playing "check the box" now and would return to his policies that have caused destruction across our nation if reelected.

Nope. That's not it.
Most Americans who aren't hyperpartisans moved on from Afghanistan and honestly just think it was a money sink which hadn't had any clear purpose or objectives for years. Withdrawal was LONG overdue. Trump had no clear plan, created a mess and foisted it on Biden.

A year later......

The fall of Kabul to the Taliban a year ago sparked a new crisis for the Afghan people and a sobering reality check about what two decades of western intervention couldn't accomplish. It also coincided with a political drop for President Biden.

Why it matters: The economy, not foreign policy, is the biggest driver of presidential approval ratings in the U.S., pollsters and political scientists say. But a year later, it's impossible to deny that aspects of the Afghanistan exit affected Americans' views of Biden's ability to deliver on his promises.
The chaotic scenes from Kabul also damaged Biden's relations with allies overseas — though his handling this year of the Ukraine crisis has restored much of the lost confidence, diplomats told Axios.

What we're hearing: The chaotic scenes from Kabul also damaged Biden's relations with allies overseas, some of which were dismayed by what they saw as a lack of coordination and preparation from Biden's team.

"It was a shock and it will remain a shock. There was also kind of brutality in leaving that way, and in the fall," one diplomat from a close ally told Axios, describing the decision as "another version of America First."
Consultation with coalition partners about the withdrawal had been "more cosmetic than profound," the diplomat added.

https://www.axios.com/2022/08/15/afghanistan-withdrawal-anniversary-biden-approval

And, many believe his disastrous withdrawal was a main reason why we have so many other conflicts around the world. Adversaires see Biden as weak.

Afghanistan withdrawal made enemies think US ‘feckless,’ former CENTCOM commander says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1150557/afghanistan-withdrawal-made-enemies-think-us-feckless-former-centcom-commander-says/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread just shows Biden and Dems would flush this country down the drain vs change policies on Israel.
I agree with the OP and all the people in my circle do as well. These are people who never mention Israel before. They are shocked by Israel’s disregard for human life and the yelling/bullying/intimidating of anyone who does not share the group think on Israel is reenforcing their views. Israel and its supporters are seen as evil in the same way as Russia or Nazis Germany.

Change policies on Israel or lose the election though it is most likely too late.

Where were you when Palestinians were suffering in Syria? Please tell us what votes you kept back in previous years because you were so taken with the suffering of Palestinians, or did you just discover them now

—someone who has donated a lot of money to Doctors Without Borders for years

This crap is hilarious because the U.S. has its biggest $ for the Israeli apartheid state. We don’t pay for the Syrian state at all, though with Operation Timber Sycamore we, along with our allies, paid for a lot of the violent jidadi opposition to the Syrian state.

Lots in this country, not just Genocide Joe, are desperately stale in their views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden was also a staunch supporter of the invasion of Iraq. How did that turn out?

There is a growing list of places that were unquestionably better off when Trump was president:

Israel/Palestine
Ukraine
Afghanistan
Yemen
Our southern border

Not sure about Afghanistan with the Mother of all Bombs Trump exploded that probably helped the Taliban take over power in 2021 and lead to our humiliating withdrawal under Biden. A mother of all bombs (whatever that God forsaken thing even is-the first one we ever launched apparently ) certainly wouldn’t make one lean toward an America friendly government . He pushed them to Russia.

He certainly he didn’t help Yemen by giving weapons to the Saudis . He didn’t build any wall on the Southern border. If anything, the strict rules and ICE watchdogs led to a 4 year backlog for migrants during his term and during COVID crushing world economies that meant an even bigger sea of migrants pouring in now and it would’ve happened even if we had a Republican administration currently .

Inflation is also Trumps fault for spending money and printing money like it was going out of style .

Gaza is also his fault. His scammer son in law is childhood friends with Bibi and so the Trump admin let Bibi and Israel go haywire with the settlements, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and just overall killings in the West Bank. Because the Us government didn’t provide the usual stick to Israel and instead Trump gave them a carrot, Netanyahu got power drunk : something Trump even acknowledges. Trumps free pass to Israel definitely led to 10/7 Especially coming from the frigid Obama years where Israel wouldn’t get away with half the things they did like the embassy, and the killing of Palestinian Americans so easily.

The afghan pullout was a blunder of epic proportions.

Bidens border crisis is a disaster . Besides housing illegals in schools and denying students the opportunity to go to schools earlier this year they’re now putting them in VA facilities and using that for illegals and still denying care to vets who need it

+100
There is a reason Biden's polls sunk immediately after the pull out and have never recovered.
The American voter is seeing what a disaster his administration is. And, it is not just Biden. It is also the people he has in his cabinet and people advising him. Total disaster.
At this point, there is nothing Biden can do WRT the border to make me vote for a Democrat. He is playing "check the box" now and would return to his policies that have caused destruction across our nation if reelected.

Not the American voters that are actually voting. The GOP was just punished in the last house special election for their hollow promises on the border. The Dem candidate was the one chosen to deal with the border issues. That is what is happening in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

LOL. "DeMOcraCy Is aT sTaKE!"
We've heard how the sky is falling for some time now. Good news is that people just don't believe your fear mongering anymore.

Obviously vote how you like, but one candidate literally refused to leave office the last time he was elected. He will be one of the only two viable options for election and you are proclaiming you will bolster his candidacy with your vote. The cognitive dissonance is real. Who exactly are you trying to stick it to? Yourself and your posterity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

Please stop with these hollow threats. Fear mongering has never led to positive results. Please tell your candidate to appear more appealing to the traditionally Democratic voting cohort or lose his job. I’m voting third party because I am voting my conscience.

Fear mongering may not lead to positive results in the long term but it does work as an effective political tool to keep voters in line. There are Fox News and MSNBC anchors that are paid very, very well to make sure R and D voters remain R and D voters and stoking irrational fears based on half-truths is a big part of their act. There are tens of millions of people that tune in to these garbage shows every night to get their "news" and many of these people fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op got worried about all the news regarding
Republicans looking to ban birth control
And enacting a federal abortion ban.
That’s what this thread is about

As a male, I don't give a rat's ass about abortion. So sick of even hearing about abortion.

You will when your wife or daughter needs one for health reasons and can't get it.

Likely this person doesn't have or doesn't care about the women in his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

Please stop with these hollow threats. Fear mongering has never led to positive results. Please tell your candidate to appear more appealing to the traditionally Democratic voting cohort or lose his job. I’m voting third party because I am voting my conscience.

Do whatever you want but understand trump or biden will be the next president. Your vote affects that outcome even if you don't vote at all. These are very very different men and one of them will have power over you and your family.

PP, you are just tarot card reading. Both men are not likely to live long. Face that are/have been awful and think of what should come next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

LOL. "DeMOcraCy Is aT sTaKE!"
We've heard how the sky is falling for some time now. Good news is that people just don't believe your fear mongering anymore.

Obviously vote how you like, but one candidate literally refused to leave office the last time he was elected. He will be one of the only two viable options for election and you are proclaiming you will bolster his candidacy with your vote. The cognitive dissonance is real. Who exactly are you trying to stick it to? Yourself and your posterity?

PP, try politics, not this lame self-congratulatory crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,?you’re making no sense.
Trump would be worse on this. He would classify Gaza along with the sh-hole countries he doesn’t care about. Biden is trying to moderate Netanyahu behind the scenes and is getting slowly more assertive on this. Trump would back pedal entirely.

This is sort of like saying I’m upset about having the flu so I’m going to drive a big glass of bubonic plague. You’re not being rational.

OP here. This is what I mean when I say “trump would be worse” is not sufficient. It isn’t a choice between the flu and the plague. Both choices are unacceptable. I really never thought Biden could do anything to make me sit it out.

But why wouldn’t Biden interpret my support as approval for what he has done? He has degraded US leadership and national security for generations to come for … what? For a genocidal warmonger? That is unforgivable.

You think candidates assume that people who vote for them agree with them on everything? Gaza is one of hundreds of things on Biden’s plate. A vote for him isn’t an endorsement of every single thing he does.

If you don’t vote for Biden, you’re sending the message that Trump is no worse. Don’t you worry about how that looks?

OP again. I do! I also worry how it looks to vote for Biden. I didn’t think I’d get to this point but I’m here. I am furious at Biden for putting the country in this horrible position. This is a 1000 times worse than starting the Iraq war.

I wish Biden would listen more to the voters (who overwhelmingly want a ceasefire) than to a foreign government.

He abandoned the Democrats and is just Netanyahu’s lap dog. Is that ok with you??

You excel in ignorance and stupidity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden was also a staunch supporter of the invasion of Iraq. How did that turn out?

There is a growing list of places that were unquestionably better off when Trump was president:

Israel/Palestine
Ukraine
Afghanistan
Yemen
Our southern border

Not sure about Afghanistan with the Mother of all Bombs Trump exploded that probably helped the Taliban take over power in 2021 and lead to our humiliating withdrawal under Biden. A mother of all bombs (whatever that God forsaken thing even is-the first one we ever launched apparently ) certainly wouldn’t make one lean toward an America friendly government . He pushed them to Russia.

He certainly he didn’t help Yemen by giving weapons to the Saudis . He didn’t build any wall on the Southern border. If anything, the strict rules and ICE watchdogs led to a 4 year backlog for migrants during his term and during COVID crushing world economies that meant an even bigger sea of migrants pouring in now and it would’ve happened even if we had a Republican administration currently .

Inflation is also Trumps fault for spending money and printing money like it was going out of style .

Gaza is also his fault. His scammer son in law is childhood friends with Bibi and so the Trump admin let Bibi and Israel go haywire with the settlements, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and just overall killings in the West Bank. Because the Us government didn’t provide the usual stick to Israel and instead Trump gave them a carrot, Netanyahu got power drunk : something Trump even acknowledges. Trumps free pass to Israel definitely led to 10/7 Especially coming from the frigid Obama years where Israel wouldn’t get away with half the things they did like the embassy, and the killing of Palestinian Americans so easily.

The afghan pullout was a blunder of epic proportions.

Bidens border crisis is a disaster . Besides housing illegals in schools and denying students the opportunity to go to schools earlier this year they’re now putting them in VA facilities and using that for illegals and still denying care to vets who need it

+100
There is a reason Biden's polls sunk immediately after the pull out and have never recovered.
The American voter is seeing what a disaster his administration is. And, it is not just Biden. It is also the people he has in his cabinet and people advising him. Total disaster.
At this point, there is nothing Biden can do WRT the border to make me vote for a Democrat. He is playing "check the box" now and would return to his policies that have caused destruction across our nation if reelected.

there is a bill that would overhaul immigration and address the crisis at the border. it was negotiated and approved by Senate Republicans, who got a lot if not most what Republicans demanded. it was approved also by the union representing USCBP (who endorsed Trump in the past) as helpful and a step in the right direction. it had the Democrats' support in the House but the GOP speaker does not even bring it to a vote. it was sank by Trump who spoke against it basically because he wants a border crisis to run on. as your post shows, there are dumb voters who dont go beyond the Foxnews & Sinclair's news videos.

the border crisis will continue even under a Trump presidency but it will disappear from RW news outlet so in that sense it will be solved, LOL. the only thing that Trump did to stem the influx of migrants was to use COVID to declare a healthcare emergency and suspend the application of existing laws. guess what, COVID is gone as RW people keep reminding us, so this is not going to work a second time. the real disaster here is the MAGA wing of the GOP (see how the House is not working and they are on their second speaker already) and Trump but some people just left reality and cannot see it even if it smacks on their faces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

LOL. "DeMOcraCy Is aT sTaKE!"
We've heard how the sky is falling for some time now. Good news is that people just don't believe your fear mongering anymore.

Obviously vote how you like, but one candidate literally refused to leave office the last time he was elected. He will be one of the only two viable options for election and you are proclaiming you will bolster his candidacy with your vote. The cognitive dissonance is real. Who exactly are you trying to stick it to? Yourself and your posterity?

PP, try politics, not this lame self-congratulatory crap.

Try critical thinking. Do you think a dark knight third party candidate is going to swoop in at the 11th hour and win the election with your vote? Do you think Trump will suddenly start abiding by and respecting laws after his recent convictions? Do you think he will suddenly agree to peacefully transfer power when he couldn’t the first time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t vote for Biden now it will be the last election in which you get a choice in the matter at all.

Please stop with these hollow threats. Fear mongering has never led to positive results. Please tell your candidate to appear more appealing to the traditionally Democratic voting cohort or lose his job. I’m voting third party because I am voting my conscience.

Do whatever you want but understand trump or biden will be the next president. Your vote affects that outcome even if you don't vote at all. These are very very different men and one of them will have power over you and your family.

PP, you are just tarot card reading. Both men are not likely to live long. Face that are/have been awful and think of what should come next.

They will both make it to inauguration day and one will have power over you. Sorry that is frustrating to or you. If you deal with frustration by throwing away your vote, that is your coping strategy I guess.

[Anonymous]

How wonderful for you that you get to "sit this out". I guess the destruction of American democracy doesn't affect you. What a gloriously privileged world you live in.