Boys are not all right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

I don’t think older men being in leadership proves that today’s boys are ok. There’s like a 4 to 5, even 6 decade gap there. I think a PP was spot on that the bell curve amongst men is weakening with bigger distribution amongst the tails. And this is a problem from girls/women too because it results in fewer marriageable men for the quality women coming out of college. I don’t know the answer, but I think we should at least acknowledge the problem.

I also think there’s a separate but related issue of the motherhood penalty. The gender pay gap has been debunked. Women without kids are doing great in the workforce. It’s moms who make less. And yes this is biological because the physical and mental demands of pregnancy/child rearing and also likely some innate risk aversion once you have children. We can’t change biology so we have to (or should) somehow decide we’re not ok sacrificing mothers for the societal benefit of carrying on our species (unless you are truly anti natalist, I would hope most people agree society benefits from well raised and cared for children keeping humanity going).

TL; DR

We need to focus on creating a larger swath of emotionally stable, reasonably successful and educated men at the middle (not just focusing on extreme male success at the top as proof boys are ok) and we need to recognize/adjust for the effects of child bearing on women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

Well said.

Or tell the suburban D.C. area boy, who consumes modern social media, movies, and online content, where men are constantly portrayed as useless buffoons, while Women are portrayed as the intelligent, responsible, and brave ones.

Agree: in this thread there may be only a few people (or maybe just one person responding over and over), but there is a serious case of a responder who is living in a feminist bubble.

A distorted, toxic, feminist bubble. OP is right: the boys are not all right.

I think there’s at least one person who’s sock puppeting and posting extremely inflammatory things on both sides. However I also think there’s more than a few women in this thread posting stuff almost as bad.

I've posted some of the stuff you're talking about and I'm a man. I've just got no time for whining and entitlement or parents who enable that.

Boys are perfectly capable of sitting still and learning their times tables, I know because I did it. Boys are perfectly capable of becoming competent and intelligent even if a man on TV isn't. There's no reason why "the boys" aren't capable of succeeding in school. They just have to do the work, the same as the girls.

Just like in the 1950s.

? I don't know about the male PP, but I'm 53, and most of the men I know my age and younger have college degrees. Born in 1970, 20 years after 1950. Even my DH, who is 58 has a college degree, and most of his friends also have college degrees. So, those men were able to sit still long enough to learn their times tables. We did not all grow up in a privileged home. I'm an immigrant; parents were uneducated blue collar workers. DH's dad owned his own business, and did not have the opportunity to go to college since he came from a poor mining family.

Why are so many people coddling boys? If girls can be educated, cook, clean, take care of the kids, why do you think boys are incapable of just this one thing?

FFS, it's no wonder why these boys are incapable of becoming independent responsible men. If you have low expectations of someone, they will achieve to that level of expectation.

-mom of teen boy and teen girl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

[Anonymous]

This thread ties to the thread below.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1180273.page

Do you know why women are picky? Because apparently boys aren't able to become responsible independent men

[Anonymous]

It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Richard Reeves at the Brookings Institute has done a lot of research on this. If you overlay race and socioeconomic data then you find it’s black and Hispanic boys or those who are just poorer who are doing particularly badly. There’s a 3% difference between Asian girls and boys graduating high school on time but almost a 10% difference between black girls and boys.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-unreported-gender-gap-in-high-school-graduation-rates/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/racial-disparities-in-the-high-school-graduation-gender-gap/

So, basically the people on here who are scoffing at boys not doing well are making fun of poor black and hispanic boys?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

So DH and I are parenting our FS to be a responsible independent person and you are parenting your DS to be a responsible independent person. But if others aren't, and they are not, then our sons and daughters will live in the country with them. And that's not good.

This doesn't concern our children directly - but it concerns them indirectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

NP. If I had to guess, the demographic of boys with the most struggles are being raised by a single mother, and are also disproportionately non-white.

[Anonymous]

Stop red shirting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

NP. If I had to guess, the demographic of boys with the most struggles are being raised by a single mother, and are also disproportionately non-white.

So I'm sure people like PP smugly saying "you make it into a problem by not parenting....." on this board is really going to be helpful here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

The first step is admitting there is a problem.