My DS wants to be a musician. WWYD?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

Can you prove that to me?

This is why the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

Can you prove that to me?

This is why the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

Just because you can quote Thoreau doesn’t make you right.

[Anonymous]

It's wonderful OP. DS has shown that he is eminently capable of putting himself into a "flow" state, which is so important, and, I'd argue, rare these days with our easily distractible minds. Encourage the music, and encourage him to do well in school. 99.9% of successful musicians have had to work years, if not decades, before becoming financially successful. Until then, he'll need to find ways to support himself. The better he is at school, the more options he gives TO HIMSELF while pursuing his dream. Try to frame the academics in terms of his benefit, rather than focusing on you and making you and your spouse less anxious.

[Anonymous]

As a 50 years old guy, I wished I had listened to my father when I was young and practiced guitar everyday but I did not, and I am now living life with a lot of regrets.  While it is never too late to learn, it is 100 times more difficult to master the guitar at the age of 50 versus 15.  I am taking weekly lessons and progressing at a snail pace.  A particular chord will take me about two weeks to master versus one day for a fifteen years old.  I salute OP's son for practicing six to eight hours everyday.  It takes a special person to do that.  I often say this to my guitar's instructor:  I would trade my 2022 Tesla Model X with your 2019 Toyota Camry if I can play Eric Clapton's tears in heaven like you do.  

You can have all the money in the world but you can not buy passion, commitment, and start learning/practicing music at an early age.  FWIW, going to college to get an accounting degree like Kenny G is very good.  Going to college to get a music degree is not a smart thing for ROI.  YMMV.

[Anonymous]

It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

Apparently his uncle has talked to him and is also paying for his music lessons.

OP and his uptight wife are willing to mooch off the uncle—including living in a house he owns—but freak out that their son wants to follow in his uncle’s footsteps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

Apparently his uncle has talked to him and is also paying for his music lessons.

OP and his uptight wife are willing to mooch off the uncle—including living in a house he owns—but freak out that their son wants to follow in his uncle’s footsteps.

Since the uncle has inserted himself and exerted his influence, he should also take the responsibility to financially support OP's son as he takes on this arduous road. Put his money where his mouth is. I am sure that will engender a more balanced talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

Apparently his uncle has talked to him and is also paying for his music lessons.

OP and his uptight wife are willing to mooch off the uncle—including living in a house he owns—but freak out that their son wants to follow in his uncle’s footsteps.

Since the uncle has inserted himself and exerted his influence, he should also take the responsibility to financially support OP's son as he takes on this arduous road. Put his money where his mouth is. I am sure that will engender a more balanced talk.

You’re just gleeful while you mock this kid. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

There's a lot of miserable people here who are very triggered by others chasing a dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of miserable people here who are very triggered by others chasing a dream.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him he has to graduate high school, but otherwise why would you stop him?

Talk to your brother and ask if DS can go on the road after HS and work for him.

If DB agrees tell DS he can apprentice with his uncle if he gets a reasonable GPA and graduates HS. (Up to you guys what you think is his best GPA.)

Then let him go! He’s better off getting into the industry by hanging out with his uncle. You’d at least know how he’s doing.

He can spend a couple of years figuring out if he’s talented enough. Or maybe he will find another music industry related job. He doesn’t have to become a top level guitarist to be satisfied. He may find he fits in somewhere else in that orbit.

If he’s practicing guitar seriously, let him do it! As long as he graduates HS he can go get a college degree later.

But he’s got an awesome low risk opportunity to follow his dream here. And if it’s his dream, you can’t stop him anyway.

Wasn’t this a long shot for your brother too?

—former dumb kid who gave up scholarship for chemical engineering, got an art history degree, and became a successful art objects photographer

This is a great solution. Give him a few “gap years” to try it out. He can always go back to college later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him he has to graduate high school, but otherwise why would you stop him?

Talk to your brother and ask if DS can go on the road after HS and work for him.

If DB agrees tell DS he can apprentice with his uncle if he gets a reasonable GPA and graduates HS. (Up to you guys what you think is his best GPA.)

Then let him go! He’s better off getting into the industry by hanging out with his uncle. You’d at least know how he’s doing.

He can spend a couple of years figuring out if he’s talented enough. Or maybe he will find another music industry related job. He doesn’t have to become a top level guitarist to be satisfied. He may find he fits in somewhere else in that orbit.

If he’s practicing guitar seriously, let him do it! As long as he graduates HS he can go get a college degree later.

But he’s got an awesome low risk opportunity to follow his dream here. And if it’s his dream, you can’t stop him anyway.

Wasn’t this a long shot for your brother too?

—former dumb kid who gave up scholarship for chemical engineering, got an art history degree, and became a successful art objects photographer

This is a great solution. Give him a few “gap years” to try it out. He can always go back to college later.

Give him a few gap years? You act as though the parents have control over what the kid does. Once he turns 18, he’s an adult. They can’t force him to do anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

Apparently his uncle has talked to him and is also paying for his music lessons.

OP and his uptight wife are willing to mooch off the uncle—including living in a house he owns—but freak out that their son wants to follow in his uncle’s footsteps.

Since the uncle has inserted himself and exerted his influence, he should also take the responsibility to financially support OP's son as he takes on this arduous road. Put his money where his mouth is. I am sure that will engender a more balanced talk.

You’re just gleeful while you mock this kid. Disgusting.

I am not mocking the kid, quite to the contrary, he deserves to have a factual, balanced and broad discussion on his future. The corporate cogs and Tesla owners here, who don't themselves make a living out of Music, who have no skin in the game on this decision, are projecting their own fantasies of what could have been if they only pursued music at 15.

High School is this kid's job right now, he should not risk ending up illiterate and woefully underemployed on the chance he makes it as a Rock star.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate his uncle won't talk to him


Don't try to talk him out of it.

Be real with him his job right now is to finish high school and do well after that's up to him.
Maybe incentives such as bringing grades up you'll pay for x amount of lessons a new guitar.

encourage him on a path of successful musician.

Apparently his uncle has talked to him and is also paying for his music lessons.

OP and his uptight wife are willing to mooch off the uncle—including living in a house he owns—but freak out that their son wants to follow in his uncle’s footsteps.

Since the uncle has inserted himself and exerted his influence, he should also take the responsibility to financially support OP's son as he takes on this arduous road. Put his money where his mouth is. I am sure that will engender a more balanced talk.

You’re just gleeful while you mock this kid. Disgusting.

I am not mocking the kid, quite to the contrary, he deserves to have a factual, balanced and broad discussion on his future. The corporate cogs and Tesla owners here, who don't themselves make a living out of Music, who have no skin in the game on this decision, are projecting their own fantasies of what could have been if they only pursued music at 15.

High School is this kid's job right now, he should not risk ending up illiterate and woefully underemployed on the chance he makes it as a Rock star.

And you have no skin in the game either, but you sure as hell act like you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him he has to graduate high school, but otherwise why would you stop him?

Talk to your brother and ask if DS can go on the road after HS and work for him.

If DB agrees tell DS he can apprentice with his uncle if he gets a reasonable GPA and graduates HS. (Up to you guys what you think is his best GPA.)

Then let him go! He’s better off getting into the industry by hanging out with his uncle. You’d at least know how he’s doing.

He can spend a couple of years figuring out if he’s talented enough. Or maybe he will find another music industry related job. He doesn’t have to become a top level guitarist to be satisfied. He may find he fits in somewhere else in that orbit.

If he’s practicing guitar seriously, let him do it! As long as he graduates HS he can go get a college degree later.

But he’s got an awesome low risk opportunity to follow his dream here. And if it’s his dream, you can’t stop him anyway.

Wasn’t this a long shot for your brother too?

—former dumb kid who gave up scholarship for chemical engineering, got an art history degree, and became a successful art objects photographer

This is a great solution. Give him a few “gap years” to try it out. He can always go back to college later.

Give him a few gap years? You act as though the parents have control over what the kid does. Once he turns 18, he’s an adult. They can’t force him to do anything.

And that is fine. I was encouraging OP to let him spread his wings. This is actually great because if he is with his caring uncle, he’ll have an eye out for him.

He can always go back to college.

I have a friend who was a rock star for about 15 years. He later got an Oxbridge Ph.D. There are many paths to life, let him explore them.