My DS wants to be a musician. WWYD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

Can you prove that to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

A music major studies a particular instrument – whether trombone or voice, piano or violin – and also takes music theory and composition courses, music history classes, and classes related to sharpening aural skills. Music majors perform in front of their peers and audiences, and they practice to hone their art.

This is the same for other arts and design fields. There is a basic language and terminology that is developed and allows you to talk to and understand other professionals in the field.

You seem to be talking about jazz or classical.

Rock music—which seems to be what OP’s son wants to do—is a different animal.

The language of music schools (triads, dyads, Lydian modes, etc) is almost NEVER used among rock musicians. If a rock guitarist started using those terms among other rock musicians, 99% of the time you’d get either blank stares or laughed out of the room.

I think Lady Gaga, Donald Fagen, Walter Becker, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, Annie Lennox, Björk, Jonny Greenwood, Rostam Batmanglig, Glen Danzig would tell different. I really could be here all day listing more musicians. You seriously don’t know what you are talking about!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

A music major studies a particular instrument – whether trombone or voice, piano or violin – and also takes music theory and composition courses, music history classes, and classes related to sharpening aural skills. Music majors perform in front of their peers and audiences, and they practice to hone their art.

This is the same for other arts and design fields. There is a basic language and terminology that is developed and allows you to talk to and understand other professionals in the field.

You seem to be talking about jazz or classical.

Rock music—which seems to be what OP’s son wants to do—is a different animal.

The language of music schools (triads, dyads, Lydian modes, etc) is almost NEVER used among rock musicians. If a rock guitarist started using those terms among other rock musicians, 99% of the time you’d get either blank stares or laughed out of the room.

I think Lady Gaga, Donald Fagen, Walter Becker, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, Annie Lennox, Björk, Jonny Greenwood, Rostam Batmanglig, Glen Danzig would tell different. I really could be here all day listing more musicians. You seriously don’t know what you are talking about!

You don’t get it.

I never said it doesn’t help. I said it isn’t necessary.

Those people would’ve been successful without those degrees. I have no doubt.

I could list a ton of musicians who had no degree.

The point is that a degree isn’t necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s abundantly clear to me that most of these posters don’t understand the world of rock/punk.

That’s ok. You’re mostly non-musicians who have a very conventional way of looking at the world. You think engaging with institutions will help people learn the rules of the game.

You don’t understand how it works. OP’s son should keep taking music lessons, but the best thing for him to do after graduation is to move out of the DC area, which is a horrible place for live music. He should move to LA, NYC, or Chicago and start networking with other musicians. Join bands, write songs, and play shows.

Agree. That is what my nephew is doing. He’s selling his beats out in LA and networking. He can shred the guitar and now he’s lots of people out there get to see his stuff.

I said previously this kid has a great opportunity to go on the road with his uncle. He will make connections and learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

Can you prove that to me?

It's not my job to educate you. Pick up 10 movies and check out the linkedin of the musicians involved.

[Anonymous]

Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah. He can write his music and practice the guitar but he needs to do his school work.

Take the guitar and make him do his school work to get it back. Tell him you're fine with him creating music but school comes first.

You are just awful. Do not take this kid’s guitar.

I suggest reading Dave Growl’s book, The Storyteller, and trying to be like his mom. They had an incredible relationship.

Also read Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child. He blew off school to spend hours on the guitar. I think he’s done pretty okay in life.

For every Dave Growl there are hundreds of thousands of men who could never pay rent with their music. I would focus on the overwhelmingly more likely scenario and plan for it.

It’s Grohl.

Dave is the first person who would say he’s not the most technically proficient drummer. He has talent for sure, but also a TON of perseverance and a dose of luck (primarily Nirvana needing a new drummer). He also made some good business decisions (primarily releasing his music on his own record company).

Point being that if OP’s son throws himself into this and really commits, chances are he will be able to support himself with something related to music. Becoming famous really isn’t the goal for most musicians. It’s being able to do music full-time. He could be a session musician. He could do soundtracks. He could produce. He could supplement that all by teaching.

There’s a million ways to do it.

The overwhelming majority of those people have a college degree, usually in a field related to music. If you are a star you can get away without education, but being a star is like winning the PowerBall.

How is a college degree necessary for those jobs though?

Not that PP but my XH I mentioned above who makes a nice living (or at least did while we were married maybe it’s all turned to shit now, I don’t know) does all of that and more, and he has a college degree. It wasn’t necessary but I do believe it helped and he had a few famous relatives in the music business.

How has it helped? Honestly curious.

Everyone says that a musician needs a college degree but can't explain how that degree is going to help the musician. There are plenty of people with liberal arts degrees and student loan debt and are working at Starbuck. For the last time, how does a college degree help a musician?

Are you serious? Berklee has a Bachelor and Masters in all these fields. Yes, the person who majored in Film and Media Scoring will have a whole lot more opportunities and SKILLS than OPs son, so will the person who has a degree in Contemporary Music Production or Music Education or Music Business Management.

The people who don't have these degrees are either STARS or had a very lucky break.

Let's also not forget that OPs son wants to be like his uncle, who is rich and successful. Does he want to be a musician if he has to work as a manager at Chipotle to support his passion? That's what dad should ask him.

You act as though going to Berklee guarantees you success. It doesn’t at all. You still need a lucky break.

The point is that you can succeed in music without a degree. That’s just reality. Especially in rock music, which I think is what OP’s son wants to do.

It increases your chances of success and of making a living in the music industry by a significant margin.

You seem to think in extremes and one off cases, i am talking about what is most likely.

Can you prove that to me?

It's not my job to educate you. Pick up 10 movies and check out the linkedin of the musicians involved.

I’m talking about rock music.

Prove to me that you need a music degree to make it in rock music.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Here’s another inaccuracy from your list: Johnny Greenwood dropped out during his first semester of college, when Radiohead got a record deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Get your head outside of the box.

They all had some form of classical training not necessarily degrees. The point is they know music theory and no one in the rock music is going to laugh someone out of the room for bringing up music theory.

I come from a family that has professional musicians and married into a family with professional musicians. I’ve spent much of my life hanging out with musicians. You are not even aware that most rock/pop musicians were in high school band. Or took piano lessons. Many never stop studying classical music after they become famous! They hire music teachers because they just love music.

And if you are the numnuts who said if this kid can’t hack it, he could just become a session player you really need to sit this conversation out. Studio session players are top of the league musicians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Here’s another inaccuracy from your list: Johnny Greenwood dropped out during his first semester of college, when Radiohead got a record deal.

It’s not an inaccuracy. The point is the guy knows much theory. Just go back to preparing PowerPoint slides for your meeting or whatever it is you do at your non-music job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Get your head outside of the box.

They all had some form of classical training not necessarily degrees. The point is they know music theory and no one in the rock music is going to laugh someone out of the room for bringing up music theory.

I come from a family that has professional musicians and married into a family with professional musicians. I’ve spent much of my life hanging out with musicians. You are not even aware that most rock/pop musicians were in high school band. Or took piano lessons. Many never stop studying classical music after they become famous! They hire music teachers because they just love music.

And if you are the numnuts who said if this kid can’t hack it, he could just become a session player you really need to sit this conversation out. Studio session players are top of the league musicians.

I never said the kid shouldn’t take music lessons.

The issue was with the necessity of a music college degree.

I am also a musician and come from a family of musicians. My sister is a musicology professor who went to Juilliard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Here’s another inaccuracy from your list: Johnny Greenwood dropped out during his first semester of college, when Radiohead got a record deal.

It’s not an inaccuracy. The point is the guy knows much theory. Just go back to preparing PowerPoint slides for your meeting or whatever it is you do at your non-music job.

Stop moving the goalposts. The issue is whether you need a music school degree.

Reading is fundamental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Get your head outside of the box.

They all had some form of classical training not necessarily degrees. The point is they know music theory and no one in the rock music is going to laugh someone out of the room for bringing up music theory.

I come from a family that has professional musicians and married into a family with professional musicians. I’ve spent much of my life hanging out with musicians. You are not even aware that most rock/pop musicians were in high school band. Or took piano lessons. Many never stop studying classical music after they become famous! They hire music teachers because they just love music.

And if you are the numnuts who said if this kid can’t hack it, he could just become a session player you really need to sit this conversation out. Studio session players are top of the league musicians.

I never said the kid shouldn’t take music lessons.

The issue was with the necessity of a music college degree.

I am also a musician and come from a family of musicians. My sister is a musicology professor who went to Juilliard.

Then why are you being ridiculously rigid?

My point is that knowing music theory is not pointless for rock/pop musicians. You said they were not used in rock and that someone discussing those things would be laughed out of the room.

No they would not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your list isn’t even accurate. Which music school did Ariana Grande go to?

Lady Gaga started out in classical music. I’ve said repeatedly that classical is different. Not to mention, she didn’t graduate from Tisch.

Freddie Mercury studied graphic design. How did that help him, other than logo work for Queen?

Get your head outside of the box.

They all had some form of classical training not necessarily degrees. The point is they know music theory and no one in the rock music is going to laugh someone out of the room for bringing up music theory.

I come from a family that has professional musicians and married into a family with professional musicians. I’ve spent much of my life hanging out with musicians. You are not even aware that most rock/pop musicians were in high school band. Or took piano lessons. Many never stop studying classical music after they become famous! They hire music teachers because they just love music.

And if you are the numnuts who said if this kid can’t hack it, he could just become a session player you really need to sit this conversation out. Studio session players are top of the league musicians.

I never said the kid shouldn’t take music lessons.

The issue was with the necessity of a music college degree.

I am also a musician and come from a family of musicians. My sister is a musicology professor who went to Juilliard.

Then why are you being ridiculously rigid?

My point is that knowing music theory is not pointless for rock/pop musicians. You said they were not used in rock and that someone discussing those things would be laughed out of the room.

No they would not.

I was responding to someone who said the kid needs a music school degree because that would give him the necessary language. My point is you can learn it outside music school.