Official Government Shutdown 2023 Thread

[Anonymous]

We’re financial services agency, we do not use tax dollars, so the shutdown does not impact us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apologies if this was asked in this long thread, but is military paid if the government shuts down?

We are dual enlisted military. I feel like we’ll get the pay eventually but wouldn’t be paid while it’s shut down? But I assume all military will be deemed essential?

Yes. The military is essential. And nope. As thing stand, they will not get paid. Usually it’s not an issue, because military appropriations pass first and fast. They are done come shutdown time. Not this time. Kevin McCarhy tried to being the military appropriations bill to the floor and the Freedom Caucus is even blocking that. (While saying they support the military, but that voting for a bill they insist they support sets a bad precedent. See also Tuberville blocking military promotions union the Senate). So, as of now, the military isn’t funded either. Republicans lost bigly in the last 2 elections and have decided to burn it all down.

I was a Fed for the 2013 shutdown. It also started with the military unfunded and not getting paid. The public backlash was enough that a stand-alone military bill passed about a week into the shutdown. This time? You aren’t dealing with rational actors. Kevin McCarthy started with 4 votes to spare. He’s had a resignation and has 1-2 members out with serious medical issues. And a couple out with newborns. And got rid of the ability to vote remotely. So at this point he has to get every single Republican on board to bring the military appropriations bill to the floor.

Dems would vote to fund the military, BTW as long as there wasn’t a poison pill like an abortion ban attached. But Kevin can’t bring it to a vote under House informal rules and customs unless he can pass it without Dem votes. Which he can’t. Eventually, he’ll have to do what he did with the debt ceiling and break the unwritten must be able to pass with R votes rule and use Dem votes. And if he did this tomorrow, Dems would give him a clean CR with the disaster funding everyone agrees to. But if he’ll wait until the tipping point of a shutdown. And Dems will extract painful concessions for their votes. As they should. Shutdowns have consequences.

Gotta love the Moron Caucus of the Republican Party.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Question for those who have been there: if you are non-essential, do they take your laptop away? DH is a workaholic and if they don’t physically take his computer, he will be working anyway.

But he also has a to-do list (that he created) for if there is a shut down. I don’t want to be in a situation where he’s non-essential, works anyway during the day, and then our evenings are spent in chaos as he tries to tackle his to-do list.

It is illegal for him to work. So doubt it.

Yep, it would violate the Anti-Deficiency Act because your DH would be providing a service for the Government, thus the Government would incur an obligation to pay him (and it doesn't matter if your DH says he wants to work for free, that would be a "gift" which the Government likely couldn't accept). Violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act is a felony, should your DH's agency wish to pursue charges, and should DoJ agree to prosecute. At the very least, he will definitely be fired.

Why doesn’t the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act (which became law in 2019) modify this to some extent?

Oh. It does. Hard to believe the criminal penalties weren’t touched but I guess you know what you’re on about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Employee_Fair_Treatment_Act

I’m a Fed and I’m glad they weren’t. Many Feds, including myself, actually believe in our agency’s mission (while doing nothing at home in our PJs ). I’ve been through past shutdowns. It’s very hard not to work when you are sitting around knowing the people you serve actually need service. Most Feds I know think a day or 2 off would be nice. But after that, would prefer to be excepted and work wi delayed pay— even if they could not work and get paid.

The serious consequences of violating the ADA are what keep Feds from logging on anyway to “just do these few things that our constituents need”. But, if we work for free, the public doesn’t see what we do, and shutdowns are prolonged and normalized. Which is bad in the end. But it actually does suck to be a Fed on week 2 of a shutdown with no end in sight, knowing the list of people you aren’t serving is growing.

Here’s what will be interesting. POTUS plays a role in how serious a shutdown is, and can (and does) direct agencies on how broadly to interpret “essential services). During the last two long shutdowns— under Obama with the ADA and Trumps Christmas temper tantrum, POTUS directed agencies to interpret “essential employee” broadly and inconvenience the American public as little as possible. Because it was in their political best interest not to have shutdown blowback.

This shutdown will be 100% Republican House dysfunction. The Senate has done its appropriations work, passed bipartisan deals along the lines agreed to in the debt ceiling deal, and Biden has said he would sign the Senates legislation. Or a CR. It’s in Biden’s political best interest for the American public to feel some pain. I’m predicting “essential employee” has a very narrow definition this time, and Feds who are used to being “essential” won’t be.

I also predict ATC won’t wait 6 weeks to have a sick out, like they did under Trump. After all, COVID is circulating…

I don’t understand how a Fed—who will eventually be paid—working constitutes a “deficiency” in this meaning. The commitment to pay is already there; they don’t have a choice about it. So how is it deficient?

Not disputing that making it painful is the correct strategy, I just don’t get how these pieces line up statutorily.

NP and notwithstanding the prior legislation there's nothing stopping them from putting a provision into the next funding resolution denying backpay. Very unlikely but it could happen and then you violated the ADA.

Fascinating. I’ve been a fed for under six months! Heckuva system we have here.

I know, right?

I think we are getting closer and closer to the point where the GOP won't want to pay federal workers for the time the government was shut down. Super way to motivate the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anyone know what happens to payments like social security, foods stamps, and disability when the government shuts down? What about Medicaid and Medicare?

[Anonymous]

What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know what happens to payments like social security, foods stamps, and disability when the government shuts down? What about Medicaid and Medicare?

Payments continue. Those aren’t discretionary. But I work in this area and processing benefits in the pipeline and helping people whose benefits are missing or otherwise messed up stops. Your new disability or retirement application is frozen. BTW, this creates a backlog. A month shutdown means a month added to any backlog, which means in the near future benefits processing and customer service is delayed a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

What? Marginal tax rates are based on AGI, and withholding is based on annual comp, not what you make in each check. If that were true, companies could lower taxes for their employees by going to biweekly pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Question for those who have been there: if you are non-essential, do they take your laptop away? DH is a workaholic and if they don’t physically take his computer, he will be working anyway.

But he also has a to-do list (that he created) for if there is a shut down. I don’t want to be in a situation where he’s non-essential, works anyway during the day, and then our evenings are spent in chaos as he tries to tackle his to-do list.

It is illegal for him to work. So doubt it.

Yep, it would violate the Anti-Deficiency Act because your DH would be providing a service for the Government, thus the Government would incur an obligation to pay him (and it doesn't matter if your DH says he wants to work for free, that would be a "gift" which the Government likely couldn't accept). Violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act is a felony, should your DH's agency wish to pursue charges, and should DoJ agree to prosecute. At the very least, he will definitely be fired.

Why doesn’t the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act (which became law in 2019) modify this to some extent?

Oh. It does. Hard to believe the criminal penalties weren’t touched but I guess you know what you’re on about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Employee_Fair_Treatment_Act

I’m a Fed and I’m glad they weren’t. Many Feds, including myself, actually believe in our agency’s mission (while doing nothing at home in our PJs ). I’ve been through past shutdowns. It’s very hard not to work when you are sitting around knowing the people you serve actually need service. Most Feds I know think a day or 2 off would be nice. But after that, would prefer to be excepted and work wi delayed pay— even if they could not work and get paid.

The serious consequences of violating the ADA are what keep Feds from logging on anyway to “just do these few things that our constituents need”. But, if we work for free, the public doesn’t see what we do, and shutdowns are prolonged and normalized. Which is bad in the end. But it actually does suck to be a Fed on week 2 of a shutdown with no end in sight, knowing the list of people you aren’t serving is growing.

Here’s what will be interesting. POTUS plays a role in how serious a shutdown is, and can (and does) direct agencies on how broadly to interpret “essential services). During the last two long shutdowns— under Obama with the ADA and Trumps Christmas temper tantrum, POTUS directed agencies to interpret “essential employee” broadly and inconvenience the American public as little as possible. Because it was in their political best interest not to have shutdown blowback.

This shutdown will be 100% Republican House dysfunction. The Senate has done its appropriations work, passed bipartisan deals along the lines agreed to in the debt ceiling deal, and Biden has said he would sign the Senates legislation. Or a CR. It’s in Biden’s political best interest for the American public to feel some pain. I’m predicting “essential employee” has a very narrow definition this time, and Feds who are used to being “essential” won’t be.

I also predict ATC won’t wait 6 weeks to have a sick out, like they did under Trump. After all, COVID is circulating…

I don’t understand how a Fed—who will eventually be paid—working constitutes a “deficiency” in this meaning. The commitment to pay is already there; they don’t have a choice about it. So how is it deficient?

Not disputing that making it painful is the correct strategy, I just don’t get how these pieces line up statutorily.

NP and notwithstanding the prior legislation there's nothing stopping them from putting a provision into the next funding resolution denying backpay. Very unlikely but it could happen and then you violated the ADA.

Fascinating. I’ve been a fed for under six months! Heckuva system we have here.

I know, right?

I think we are getting closer and closer to the point where the GOP won't want to pay federal workers for the time the government was shut down. Super way to motivate the workforce.

I can’t understand why Ds and labor leaders aren’t using the term “lockout” to describe this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

What? Marginal tax rates are based on AGI, and withholding is based on annual comp, not what you make in each check. If that were true, companies could lower taxes for their employees by going to biweekly pay.

I swear in 2013 I had more taxes taken out of my check.

[Anonymous]

FYI: if you are living paycheck to paycheck, you can get a Thrift loan to cover living expenses if we have a protracted shutdown. You might shrug now, but things look differently once you miss a paycheck with no clear end in sight. My agency was funded in 2019. But, in 2013, I know that there was a run on Thrift loans, and a substantial delay in getting them. Not sure if it was because of the shutdown or because of the volume.

But, if you are under financial stress (or, like me, making two college tuition payments, partly out of income, in December) be aware that Thrift loans are an option. But, you can’t wait until everyone is about to miss a mortgage payment to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

What? Marginal tax rates are based on AGI, and withholding is based on annual comp, not what you make in each check. If that were true, companies could lower taxes for their employees by going to biweekly pay.

I swear in 2013 I had more taxes taken out of my check.

I did too, our payroll provider doesn’t look at the annual rate but computes based on the paycheck. In 2019 we missed 35 days and got 3 paychecks in a lump sum so my marginal tax rate went from 24 to 32 percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

What? Marginal tax rates are based on AGI, and withholding is based on annual comp, not what you make in each check. If that were true, companies could lower taxes for their employees by going to biweekly pay.

I swear in 2013 I had more taxes taken out of my check.

I did too, our payroll provider doesn’t look at the annual rate but computes based on the paycheck. In 2019 we missed 35 days and got 3 paychecks in a lump sum so my marginal tax rate went from 24 to 32 percent.

Oh yes, my withholding that year was soooo screwed up. They tried to “fix” it and I ended up writing a huge check to the IRS at the end of the year. Hot mess. I hate shutdowns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to FEHB and FEGLI if we miss a paycheck? To they wait until we get paid, or do we have to go out of pocket for our share of premiums?

Your premiums will get paid later when the lapse ends and you get your back pay, you don’t go out of pocket and your coverage continues.

And if the shutdown lasts a long time, that back pay check is big and taxed at a higher rate!

What? Marginal tax rates are based on AGI, and withholding is based on annual comp, not what you make in each check. If that were true, companies could lower taxes for their employees by going to biweekly pay.

I swear in 2013 I had more taxes taken out of my check.

Yes, they may withhold more money because they assume that higher amounts may have you in a higher marginal tax bracket and so they withhold more to ensure that you don't have a bigger tax burden come tax day. But the actual taxes will not change. It's not taxed at a higher rate (unless it does cross a tax bracket boundary). There is more withheld. If the over-withhold for you, you'll have a tax return when you calculate your taxes.