Sharing pronouns at work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a cis white female and list my pronouns in my email signature. My LGBTQAI colleagues appreciate it and it’s easy enough for me to do. I work in healthcare and when we share our pronouns, it gives pts permission to share theirs.

In my experience transgender folks aren't shy and a lot of it is about getting attention and being special. They don't need my pronouns to feel comfortable sharing.

Pray tell how much experience do you have with “transgender folks?”

It’s so incredibly rare it would amaze me if you had interactions with more than one or two, if that. Which is hardly a representative sample on which to make such a broad generalization.

1/3 of teenage girls that I see. All the same ones whose parents protected them from every harm and struggle earlier in life. Now they will commit suicide if called by the standard English words associated with their birthed gender. Thank god they were and continue to be “protected” from the world.

You are completely full of shit and sound like a histrionic ninny.

You know you are just demonstrating that you have no argument and have nothing to say when all you can do is call someone names, yes? This does nothing to advance your cause and only highlights the insanity of the pronoun people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't forcing people to do this also be a micro-aggression?

In what way?

Imagine you feel like your assigned gender doesn't quite fit, but you aren't yet sure whether you're a genderqueer man/woman, nonbinary, trans, or what. You're experimenting with different pronouns in your personal life but are not ready to commit to one set and come out at work. Should you be forced to come out, or commit to the "old" pronouns that feel wrong until you're more confident in a new choice? Does that policy feel supportive to you?

People are writing emails. What pronouns shall they use to refer to you?

Use their name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My gender or pronouns have nothing to do with my work ethic or quality of work I produce. I'm another woman in a STEM field, and it wouldn't bother me if people assumed I was a man.

I recently sat through college orientation where every single student leader and staff speaker introduced themselves with pronouns. Huge virtue signaling and huge waste of time since we then did not interact with 80% of the students or speakers face-to-face AND the pronouns were on each name tag. We had zero need to refer to these folks by their pronouns. Just dumb.

Those dumb kids will soon replace you. Your comments about “virtue signaling” indicate that you are outdated and don’t get it and are hostile to change and inclusivity. You are probably going to get sacked soon.

You sound extremely inclusive. I can tell that creating a safe and productive work community for everyone is a top priority for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a cis white female and list my pronouns in my email signature. My LGBTQAI colleagues appreciate it and it’s easy enough for me to do. I work in healthcare and when we share our pronouns, it gives pts permission to share theirs.

In my experience transgender folks aren't shy and a lot of it is about getting attention and being special. They don't need my pronouns to feel comfortable sharing.

Pray tell how much experience do you have with “transgender folks?”

It’s so incredibly rare it would amaze me if you had interactions with more than one or two, if that. Which is hardly a representative sample on which to make such a broad generalization.

1/3 of teenage girls that I see. All the same ones whose parents protected them from every harm and struggle earlier in life. Now they will commit suicide if called by the standard English words associated with their birthed gender. Thank god they were and continue to be “protected” from the world.

You are completely full of shit and sound like a histrionic ninny.

You know you are just demonstrating that you have no argument and have nothing to say when all you can do is call someone names, yes? This does nothing to advance your cause and only highlights the insanity of the pronoun people.

Enough with that trope. You simply aren’t worth debating and have been summarily dismissed out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My gender or pronouns have nothing to do with my work ethic or quality of work I produce. I'm another woman in a STEM field, and it wouldn't bother me if people assumed I was a man.

I recently sat through college orientation where every single student leader and staff speaker introduced themselves with pronouns. Huge virtue signaling and huge waste of time since we then did not interact with 80% of the students or speakers face-to-face AND the pronouns were on each name tag. We had zero need to refer to these folks by their pronouns. Just dumb.

Those dumb kids will soon replace you. Your comments about “virtue signaling” indicate that you are outdated and don’t get it and are hostile to change and inclusivity. You are probably going to get sacked soon.

You sound extremely inclusive. I can tell that creating a safe and productive work community for everyone is a top priority for you.

Tick tick tick….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My gender or pronouns have nothing to do with my work ethic or quality of work I produce. I'm another woman in a STEM field, and it wouldn't bother me if people assumed I was a man.

I recently sat through college orientation where every single student leader and staff speaker introduced themselves with pronouns. Huge virtue signaling and huge waste of time since we then did not interact with 80% of the students or speakers face-to-face AND the pronouns were on each name tag. We had zero need to refer to these folks by their pronouns. Just dumb.

Those dumb kids will soon replace you. Your comments about “virtue signaling” indicate that you are outdated and don’t get it and are hostile to change and inclusivity. You are probably going to get sacked soon.

I didn’t say the kids were dumb. They were clearly required to announce their pronouns to a room full of people, and some honestly seemed uncomfortable with it. Most of the audience didn’t give a flip about their pronouns.

I’m not hostile to inclusivity, but I am hostile to stupidity. Not worried about being replaced until the college kids get their PhDs and a couple of decades of experience. By then, I hope to be happily retired.

Engineering and sciences do value critical thinking. Announcing your pronouns because you are following a script won’t get you far in STEM.

[Anonymous]

BSD is my pronoun

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

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In my experience not everybody fits a stereotype. In my opinion, instead of applying them to women, men, or nonbinary, it's a better practice to create an environment where people feel comfortable sharing.

But, until/unless someone can provide a science-based explanation of how wanting to be something is the same as being that thing, many of us are likely to find this entire excercise pointless and stupid. Especially when we are more interested in getting actual work done than in making friends and saving the world.

I’m not sure what to say. I’m the parent of a teen who uses they pronouns. Being misgendered contributes to their feeling suicidal. We are doing everything we can to improve their mental health but in the meantime if you were their co-worker I’d be highly grateful if you shared your pronouns to make things easier for them. It’s not your responsibility, and I don’t think anybody should force you to do so, but they would appreciate it, and it would go a long way in creating an environment where they felt accepted. My child is highly anxious, shy, and has a name that is generally assumed to use she/her pronouns like Sarah.

I am not the PP but how does identifying myself as a woman help your daughter? I actually need someone to explain this to me. If I hear anyone referring to me by a pronoun it’s a sign of disrespect. Pronouns are not used in the presence you the person. None of this makes sense to me. If your child is non binary, then they should consider changing her name to something less typically feminine if it bothers them. Putting a pronoun identifier on your email signature draws attention to your gender, and in many cases that is a problem for professional women. I won’t do it!

I totally understand if you don’t want to do it—I disagree with policies that force people to share pronouns. For my child, when other people sign their messages Sarah (she/her), my child feels more comfortable signing their emails Sarah (they/them). Maybe it would make it easier on others if my child changed their name to Jade or Lark, but they like their current name. Anyway, you are free to do as you wish. I just wanted to explain what impact your sharing pronouns would have on my non-binary child, who could be your future co-worker. While it’s obvious that most Sarahs use (she/her) pronouns, it makes it feel less scary for my kid to write Sarah (they/them) if others are also sign with pronouns. Yes, my kid has lots of insecurities and is struggling with a lot. It’s not your responsibility to help them, but the small gesture goes a long way toward helping them feel accepted.

But why even put pronouns in your email address at all? Your child sounds like they don’t want their gender discussed. Best way to do that is not put it front and center. But—how would anyone even hear what pronouns people are using to talk about them anyway! The last time I saw someone refer to me as she, it was an email forwarded to me for situational awareness and I was honestly offended that the person didn’t refer to me with my name. They used she and her several times, as if to underline my gender to my superior. It was gross. People shouldn’t be using pronouns at work much—unless they’re saying things they shouldn’t about a colleague’s work. Work emails are typically about work, not people.

I guess this is a completely fictitious situation where you are my child’s co-worker! In this situation, by putting their pronouns in the email signature, people would know that my child was Sarah who uses they/them pronouns, and would use their preferred pronouns when writing and speaking. You are correct that my kid doesn’t want their pronouns front and center (which is why I don’t agree that people should be forced to share if they don’t want to) nor do they want to be addressed by the wrong ones. If pronouns could be avoided altogether that would be great for my child. Can’t speak for everyone though.

I work with a non-binary colleague—they shortened their feminine name to something more ambiguous and I can probably count on my hand the number of times I’ve had to ever use a pronoun to refer to them. Because I don’t gossip about people at work!

Keeping other people’s names/pronouns out of your mouth is just professionalism—which is lacking in too many places and is more of an issue than gender misidentification.

um what? I shouldn’t say people’s names at work?

Aren’t you the literal type.

It’s an expression. Unless you are managing people you really shouldn’t be talking about people much at work. You should be talking about work. Pronouns aren’t that relevant and announcing them in email is pointless. What is the point??

People can call me “it” behind my back for all I care. I will rarely hear anyone actually use my pronouns because that’s not how the English language usually works.

If I’m in the room, people say my name or refer to me as “you”.

Again—there are real harms caused by announcing pronouns in written correspondence and I will NEVER do it. I don’t need people focused on my gender instead of the content of my correspondence.

[Anonymous]

NP. We are all different. Some people are really fixated on gender, but I'm not. I would feel awkward announcing my gender as a first order of business. I provide a lot of context cues about my gender, and if they somehow got it wrong, I would forgive them instantly and move on. So I don't announce my pronouns because doing so makes me uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My gender or pronouns have nothing to do with my work ethic or quality of work I produce. I'm another woman in a STEM field, and it wouldn't bother me if people assumed I was a man.

I recently sat through college orientation where every single student leader and staff speaker introduced themselves with pronouns. Huge virtue signaling and huge waste of time since we then did not interact with 80% of the students or speakers face-to-face AND the pronouns were on each name tag. We had zero need to refer to these folks by their pronouns. Just dumb.

Those dumb kids will soon replace you. Your comments about “virtue signaling” indicate that you are outdated and don’t get it and are hostile to change and inclusivity. You are probably going to get sacked soon.

How agist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is that everyone listing pronouns makes it easier for people with non-obvious ones to announce theirs without having to feel as singled out.

I’m confused why you find it so uncomfortable to list yours. All you need to do is update your signature one time and it’s done. It’s not like this makes added work for you.

Maybe because we don't buy in to the possibility of anyone being gender fluid in a sexually dimorphic species. Our including our "pronouns" lends validity to a scientifically absurd idea. So, no, thank you.

Exactly

The idea of a gender separate from biology is simply a subjective belief, like a belief in ghosts - not some newly discovered characteristic of our species

Some people believe in it, lots don’t

This is why I don't understand introducing this concept to kindergarten and elementary kids. It's actually rather sophisticated. First, you need to understand basic biology and the difference between the sexes. Then you need to understand this psychological concept that gender identity is something separate and apart from sex. Then you need to be able to reconcile the two. I can't possibly imagine how a kid under 10 is able to articulate that.

"My friend Bobby has a penis like my brother, and he likes dressing like and playing with the things me and my friends who are girls like."

I dunno, my 9 y.o. handles this just fine with one of her closest friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is that everyone listing pronouns makes it easier for people with non-obvious ones to announce theirs without having to feel as singled out.

I’m confused why you find it so uncomfortable to list yours. All you need to do is update your signature one time and it’s done. It’s not like this makes added work for you.

Maybe because we don't buy in to the possibility of anyone being gender fluid in a sexually dimorphic species. Our including our "pronouns" lends validity to a scientifically absurd idea. So, no, thank you.

Exactly

The idea of a gender separate from biology is simply a subjective belief, like a belief in ghosts - not some newly discovered characteristic of our species

Some people believe in it, lots don’t

This is why I don't understand introducing this concept to kindergarten and elementary kids. It's actually rather sophisticated. First, you need to understand basic biology and the difference between the sexes. Then you need to understand this psychological concept that gender identity is something separate and apart from sex. Then you need to be able to reconcile the two. I can't possibly imagine how a kid under 10 is able to articulate that.

"My friend Bobby has a penis like my brother, and he likes dressing like and playing with the things me and my friends who are girls like."

I dunno, my 9 y.o. handles this just fine with one of her closest friends.

Your 9 year old talks about her friend's genitals????? wtf. "Bobby is a boy who likes to dress up and play with me and my friends." If there are any further questions you can just say "Yes, most boys don't play with dolls, but there's no reason any boy or girl can't play with whatever they like. There are no boy toys and girl toys."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is that everyone listing pronouns makes it easier for people with non-obvious ones to announce theirs without having to feel as singled out.

I’m confused why you find it so uncomfortable to list yours. All you need to do is update your signature one time and it’s done. It’s not like this makes added work for you.

Maybe because we don't buy in to the possibility of anyone being gender fluid in a sexually dimorphic species. Our including our "pronouns" lends validity to a scientifically absurd idea. So, no, thank you.

Exactly

The idea of a gender separate from biology is simply a subjective belief, like a belief in ghosts - not some newly discovered characteristic of our species

Some people believe in it, lots don’t

This is why I don't understand introducing this concept to kindergarten and elementary kids. It's actually rather sophisticated. First, you need to understand basic biology and the difference between the sexes. Then you need to understand this psychological concept that gender identity is something separate and apart from sex. Then you need to be able to reconcile the two. I can't possibly imagine how a kid under 10 is able to articulate that.

"My friend Bobby has a penis like my brother, and he likes dressing like and playing with the things me and my friends who are girls like."

I dunno, my 9 y.o. handles this just fine with one of her closest friends.

Your 9 year old talks about her friend's genitals????? wtf. "Bobby is a boy who likes to dress up and play with me and my friends." If there are any further questions you can just say "Yes, most boys don't play with dolls, but there's no reason any boy or girl can't play with whatever they like. There are no boy toys and girl toys."

Also I forgot the most important part: You're talking about gender STEREOTYPES, not gender identity. You can be a boy that plays with girl. You can be a girl who likes short hair. Not conforming to gender stereotypes doesn't make you the opposite gender!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is that everyone listing pronouns makes it easier for people with non-obvious ones to announce theirs without having to feel as singled out.

I’m confused why you find it so uncomfortable to list yours. All you need to do is update your signature one time and it’s done. It’s not like this makes added work for you.

Maybe because we don't buy in to the possibility of anyone being gender fluid in a sexually dimorphic species. Our including our "pronouns" lends validity to a scientifically absurd idea. So, no, thank you.

Exactly

The idea of a gender separate from biology is simply a subjective belief, like a belief in ghosts - not some newly discovered characteristic of our species

Some people believe in it, lots don’t

This is why I don't understand introducing this concept to kindergarten and elementary kids. It's actually rather sophisticated. First, you need to understand basic biology and the difference between the sexes. Then you need to understand this psychological concept that gender identity is something separate and apart from sex. Then you need to be able to reconcile the two. I can't possibly imagine how a kid under 10 is able to articulate that.

"My friend Bobby has a penis like my brother, and he likes dressing like and playing with the things me and my friends who are girls like."

I dunno, my 9 y.o. handles this just fine with one of her closest friends.

Your 9 year old talks about her friend's genitals????? wtf. "Bobby is a boy who likes to dress up and play with me and my friends." If there are any further questions you can just say "Yes, most boys don't play with dolls, but there's no reason any boy or girl can't play with whatever they like. There are no boy toys and girl toys."

Also I forgot the most important part: You're talking about gender STEREOTYPES, not gender identity. You can be a boy that plays with girl. You can be a girl who likes short hair. Not conforming to gender stereotypes doesn't make you the opposite gender!!!

Exactly

Anyway it occurs to me that maybe a good analogy for this - to help people who say “what harm does it do for you to include your pronouns” - is to imagine if some people started including their zodiac signs because they were really into astrology - and they wanted everyone else to include theirs too, because you know, everyone has one

But maybe not everyone wants to be pressured into sending the signal that they take astrology seriously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a cis white female and list my pronouns in my email signature. My LGBTQAI colleagues appreciate it and it’s easy enough for me to do. I work in healthcare and when we share our pronouns, it gives pts permission to share theirs.

In my experience transgender folks aren't shy and a lot of it is about getting attention and being special. They don't need my pronouns to feel comfortable sharing.

Pray tell how much experience do you have with “transgender folks?”

It’s so incredibly rare it would amaze me if you had interactions with more than one or two, if that. Which is hardly a representative sample on which to make such a broad generalization.

1/3 of teenage girls that I see. All the same ones whose parents protected them from every harm and struggle earlier in life. Now they will commit suicide if called by the standard English words associated with their birthed gender. Thank god they were and continue to be “protected” from the world.

You are completely full of shit and sound like a histrionic ninny.

You know you are just demonstrating that you have no argument and have nothing to say when all you can do is call someone names, yes? This does nothing to advance your cause and only highlights the insanity of the pronoun people.

+1