Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
MCPS doesn't even consider a school to be "overcapacity" until it is over 100% capacity. I think it is 120%, but maybe someone else knows.
There are two different measures. Generally, for a high school to be eligible for a feasibility study for an addition, it needs to be more than 200 seats overcapacity. But during a boundary study, they aim to have each participating school end up above 80% and below 100% of capacity. (That is not always what happens.)
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
This is actually brilliant. Why haven’t this been discussed before!
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
This is actually brilliant. Why haven’t this been discussed before!
They looked into an Einstein addition in 2017, but it was never approved.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
This is actually brilliant. Why haven’t this been discussed before!
They looked into an Einstein addition in 2017, but it was never approved.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
This is actually brilliant. Why haven’t this been discussed before!
I’m not sure if Einstein would be willingly to share VAPA with the county.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
This is actually brilliant. Why haven’t this been discussed before!
I’m not sure if Einstein would be willingly to share VAPs with the county.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
What they need to do is triple the number of stem mangets because 1) it's popular and 2) there isn't sufficient room for qualified applicants now.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
What they need to do is triple the number of stem mangets because 1) it's popular and 2) there isn't sufficient room for qualified applicants now.
My guess is that woodward will open with some sort of stem magnet. I do think there is support around the county for an audition only performing arts magnet (like Duke Ellington), but, the reality is that mostly rich people would be taking advantage of it. It would also require a lot of outside funding. I don't think the will is there at the BOE level.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
What they need to do is triple the number of stem mangets because 1) it's popular and 2) there isn't sufficient room for qualified applicants now.
Maybe they should open a magnet at Sherwood. It's never at capacity.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
My thoughts exactly. A Performing arts magnet won’t be a huge thing because there’s more interest in STEM. Einstein does have a big arts community there but that’s because they are active in their community. Perform at the Wheaton Arts parade, performing at neighboring elementary and middle schools to build interest, the Annual Dance Festival, and much more. Einstein has everything an arts magnet need. They should add on to it and make VAPA into a countywide magnet.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
What they need to do is triple the number of stem mangets because 1) it's popular and 2) there isn't sufficient room for qualified applicants now.
My guess is that woodward will open with some sort of stem magnet. I do think there is support around the county for an audition only performing arts magnet (like Duke Ellington), but, the reality is that mostly rich people would be taking advantage of it. It would also require a lot of outside funding. I don't think the will is there at the BOE level.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
My thoughts exactly. A Performing arts magnet won’t be a huge thing because there’s more interest in STEM. Einstein does have a big arts community there but that’s because they are active in their community. Perform at the Wheaton Arts parade, performing at neighboring elementary and middle schools to build interest, the Annual Dance Festival, and much more. Einstein has everything an arts magnet need. They should add on to it and make VAPA into a countywide magnet.
VAC already is a countywide magnet, so it wouldn't take much.
Anonymous wrote:/ Overwhelming majority of kids in Woodward are going to come from WJ, with a smattering from DCC /
Fixed it for ya.
That wouldn't make sense. Woodward's capacity will be 2150. WJ will be overcapacity by 800, Wheaton by 400, and Einstein by 500.
Look at current overcapacities and projections. Notice how DCC schools are rather overrepresented at the top and that W schools tend to be just under? And that the one W with a capacity problem is, poof, getting relief a half mile away? When borders could have been shifted to some currently undercapacity? When a new high school in the eastern part of the county inside the beltway that would more directly address the bulk of the need was eschewed for that new W school and a not-so-great expansion of a run-down Northwood that will still leave overcrowding in the DCC where the county has shoved higher density rezonings?
Think that is happenstance?
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean DCC will see relief.
Which site are you referring to? It seems to me that MCPS opted to reopen Woodward because it was a high-school sized plot of land that they already owned, and it had several overcrowded schools reasonably nearby.
By the way, Northwood's run-down building will be razed and replaced with a brand new one. But I agree it will not be enough space to relieve Blair's overcrowding.
They had several candidate sites, both on and off the record. None were overwhelmingly appealing, but nobody was willing to kill sacred cows to think outside the box. Two that got publicized with all their deficiencies were the Washington Adventist property and the Discovery Communications building (not the main building, but, yes, a truly urban campus without fields, etc.). That made them easy straw men, and they could then point to Woodward & Northwood as being far easier & cheaper.
But not more effective for lower-SES eastern down county. Not providing reasonably similar facility service as that seen in other areas from a school system that pays high lip service to equity. There's no reason we should expect that to change, either the rhetoric or the on-the-ground differential.
I understand the distrust of the BOE, but financial and time constraints are a reality that has to be accounted for when deciding how to address the overcrowding issues. Especially since the most overcrowded schools are WJ, Blair, Einstein, and Wheaton, the expansion of Northwood and the re-opening of Woodward were the options that would best service those particular schools. Blair and Northwood are only a mile and a half apart, and there are Wheaton feeders that used to be zoned for Woodward in its prior life. You can’t please everyone, but they picked the locations that made the most financial and logistical sense. I don’t think these posters who are advocating for making adjustments to a bunch of boundaries realize what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that, it’s going to be difficult enough to do even for the 4 schools that need it.
And, right on cue, we have it: the dual excuse that will keep the Ws happy and the DCC overcrowded.
I’m the poster you’re responding to and my kid is zoned for Einstein and is 10, so we will be squarely impacted by this. Extreme overcrowding is extreme overcrowding regardless of whether it’s a W school or a DCC school. They had to kill multiple birds with these 2 stones. I get the skepticism but that’s just the reality of the situation. I think it’s easier for people with no skin in the game to throw out these fantastical plans because the logistics have no impact on them.
Not saying ot won't impact you. But that's the world we live in.
Ok, but as a DCC parent with a kid zoned for one of the overcrowded schools, this option was the best and I’m not seeing how it is going to keep the DCC overcrowded. If my kid is attending school in a trailer and Wheaton is also still overcrowded while Woodward is only housing kids from Bethesda, then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don’t see the current plan as having been crafted to keep the overcrowded DCC schools down while helping WJ. No, it doesn’t completely screw over the WJ kids, but maybe that is what you were looking for, to right past wrongs or something.
We can hope, but we'll see if there is real relief for DCC overcrowding or only token, with monied interests relying on the dual excuse pointed out to defend the homeland from the barbarian hordes.
Righting past wrongs, properly, doesn't involve screwing over Ws, just not screwing over others any more than Ws. And, preferably, with enough put into the system so that nobody gets screwed over. Ideally with a social benefit for those previously impacted -- that's even trickier, though.
I am a longtime DCC parent, and I don't appreciate you perpetuating this us vs them argument re DCC vs the Ws. There are new schools in the DCC, and there are crappy schools in the DCC. The same is true for the "W" schools. I don't want to be rezoned to Woodward, but I understand that some DCC neighborhoods will need to be, and that is a reasonable way to address some of the overcrowding. The downcounty areas just don't have that many plots of land available that could fit a new high school, or even a middle school, and given that, I can see why MCPS went with the option to reopen Woodward. But I still would like them to expand Einstein too.
Don't want to perpetuate it, just pointing out the reality on the ground and the probable political outcome.
How about this? Delay Woodward reopening with its own catchment for an additional 2 years to allow Einstein to occupy it during an expansion after Northwood does. Meanwhile, use the relative extra capacity at Whitman to begin the performing arts magnet, preferentially drawing from WJ for that time to alleviate it's own overcrowding before shifting it to Woodward. Then both the WJ overcrowding and DCC overcrowding are addressed at the same time.
I’ve heard that Performing arts magnet won’t happen. It also makes no sense and MCPS wouldn’t fund it for long. Besides Einstein and Blake already have performing arts program maybe the county should expand it one of the programs. I would say Einstein guess they a bit more established.
I heard Woodward would be the performing arts magnet and included special facilities to support this and it's design.
This is a rumor that has been amplified, for it is what the families in the area want. The reality is MCPS has made no mention of this, and with Einstein and Blake already having these programs, it is unlikely that this will happen. If the school were in upcounty, it would be a different story.
It really is not a "rumor". The idea was suggested by MCPS (along with other ideas for non-traditional programming). The first information session that I went to someone also mentioned that when they were drawing up some of the first concepts for the school they consulted with folks on Strathmore to include performing arts spaces. Here is a powerpoint created by the office of long range planning and presented at a public information session in May of 2017. People are not pulling all these ideas out of their a**. This is stuff we have been told by MCPS over the many years this project has been discussed. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/planning/PIM2presentation.pdf
An additional performance arts magnet makes no sense, especial lay in down county. MCPS and MOCO generally need to focus on getting students out of over crowded schools and basic education. Special programs are great, but they are nice to haves and MCPS already has more than most places.
There is no countywide performing arts manget so it makes perfect sense.
It actually makes no sense if you really look into it. Have you done research in performing arts expenses? How performing arts schools are able to survive? Duke Ellington and Baltimore all receive private donations yearly and even then their programs are still fighting to be alive. Someone brought up that if this was an upcounty school then it would most likely happen but even then I think upcounty schools would fight for a STEM program rather than an arts base one. I don’t see what’s the problem with making this into a normal school to relieve crowding. If you want a audition base performing arts magnet, you should encourage Einstein VAPA to be county wide like VAC. Einstein community has done many things for the arts in MCPS and the students excel greatly in the arts.
I would support this if and only if Einstein had an addition built to address the current overcrowding, allow for more students to attend, and improve the existing arts spaces.
Isn’t this the point of reopening Woodward?
The point of reopening Woodward is to (partly) address overcrowding at WJ and the DCC. But they will also need an addition at Einstein to address all of the DCC overcrowding as well as allow for magnet students to attend.
To explore this, let's look at the building capacities for the seven high schools.
WJ: 2291
Wheaton: 2237
Einstein: 1602
Northwood: 2260
Kennedy: 2159
Blair: 2867
Woodward: 2159
For a total available capacity of 15575
Now here are the projected enrollment numbers for 28-29.
WJ: 3143
Wheaton: 2683
Einstein: 2129
Northwood: 1893
Kennedy:2227
Blair:3544
For a total enrollment of 15619
And then realize that MCPS's goal will not be to max out each of these buildings at 100%+ capacity, but to get them to 85-90% to allow for some additional growth over the years.
Given this, I don't see how there is a way to add a magnet program to any of these schools without yet another capital project. And Einstein is the logical choice, as it is so much smaller than all the others and has room to grown on its site.
I mean, looks like there’s going to be room at Northwood plus they are getting a large addition. You do realize that a magnet program would take kids from these overcrowded schools, right? There’s probably a lot of kids at Blair and Einstein (and elsewhere) who would love to be in a performing arts magnet at Woodward.
The Northwood numbers above already include the new building's capacity. After it opens they'll have a few hundred available seats, which we can assume will be filled with some of the kids currently zoned to Blair (which is 10 blocks away), yet which will still leave Blair heavily overcrowded.
If there ever is an audition-based arts magnet, at any school, I wouldn't expect more than a small number of students from each school to be invited.
My thoughts exactly. A Performing arts magnet won’t be a huge thing because there’s more interest in STEM. Einstein does have a big arts community there but that’s because they are active in their community. Perform at the Wheaton Arts parade, performing at neighboring elementary and middle schools to build interest, the Annual Dance Festival, and much more. Einstein has everything an arts magnet need. They should add on to it and make VAPA into a countywide magnet.
VAC already is a countywide magnet, so it wouldn't take much.
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