The cruelty and misogyny of forced birth politics

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of a good lawyer to follow on Twitter about the abortion fight? I follow Marc Elias for info on voting rights lawsuits and it makes me feel so much better to hear from someone "in the trenches" actually doing something. Anyone similar for abortion lawsuits?

Imani Gandy (though she does insist on using the tedious “pregnant people”) https://twitter.com/AngryBlackLady?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor and Jessica Mason Pieklo https://twitter.com/Hegemommy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

At first I found “pregnant people” tedious, but a shocking number on the right wing actually need reminders that cis/straight women are, in fact, people, as opposed to hosts for the glorious, God-sustained fetus. To say nothing of the folks that don’t identify as women. So I’m ok with it. Pregnant humans, citizens that are pregnant, humans that are actively sustaining potential humans by their blood and organs, whatever it takes.

Potential human? A human is a human. Nothing on earth changes from non-human to human.

No. Stop it.

It is not equal to the women carrying it.

WOMEN FIRST!

all humans are equal

Nothing is human until it is born. If it can't survive on its own it is not human.

A 6 month old baby is born and can’t survive on his or her own. A born toddler or preschool child is born but can’t survive on his or her own. Apparently according to dcum baby killers, those children aren’t human.

A baby inside it’s mom is a human in early stages of development. Thread calling people monsters is really monsters openly admitting they don’t feel babies aren’t human and are ok with killing them. Sick people here.

Adult humans on life support can’t survive on his or her own, do they lose the human classification during that time? What about children that mature into adults but are born with physical or mental disabilities and will never be able to care for themselves? Are they human?

You are just being purposely stupid.

If it can't live without a host, by definition it is a parasite. I am not required to give over my body to anyone else for it to survive.

Plus, in many cases it is legal to terminate life support, either because there is a living will or because the next of kin so choose. This is another example of personal medical decision in between the person on life support if they have a living will, their family and their medical team. It happens every day, in every state. Without all this drama.

Way to self own PP.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the “if something can’t survive on its own then it is not a big deal to abort its life” philosophy to me? Do you apply the same rationale to newborns, elderly people, and severely disabled people?

I’m not aware of any newborns, elderly people, or severely disabled people that need to be tethered to the bodily systems of another human being to survive. Some require organ transplants or blood infusions, but there is no law requiring their friends or family to give it to them.

Heck, in America, a corpse has more rights to its body than a pregnant woman.

It’s this.

PP who’s feigning stupidity, you know we can see through you, right? We cannot compel people to donate blood, pieces of liver, marrow or kidneys. We can’t even take perfectly good live-saving organs after death without the appropriate permission. But forced birthers want to compel women to stay pregnant, and as the Michigan GOP has demonstrated, they want to take away women’s ability not to get pregnant.

Covid vaccine was developed using fetal cells from an abortion. What about that?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8205255/





This blows the whole “fetuses are not people!” argument away. If fetuses aren’t people, why are we using their cells to help people?

And we are using human cells without any consent; the pp that says she couldn’t use one, a single one, of her father’s cells to save her own life got that wrong. We are definitely using cells from aborted babies to save our lives.

They are using a 30+ year old cell line that was also used to test literally every drug in your medicine cabinet. Want an Asprin? Thank a fetus. In all seriousness, there have been no new aortas materials used in decades. It’s the same cell reproduced over and over. Even the Poe says Catholics should vaxx up, despite this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, was explain one situation in which the government forced anyone to get a vaccine. I imagine we will be waiting all day because it didn't happen.

My sibling had to get vaccinated to stay in the military and keep their military career intact.

And not having kids helps moms keep their careers intact. The question isn’t career convenience. The question is if vaccination has been forced. Has anyone been charged with a crime for not vaccinating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of a good lawyer to follow on Twitter about the abortion fight? I follow Marc Elias for info on voting rights lawsuits and it makes me feel so much better to hear from someone "in the trenches" actually doing something. Anyone similar for abortion lawsuits?

Imani Gandy (though she does insist on using the tedious “pregnant people”) https://twitter.com/AngryBlackLady?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor and Jessica Mason Pieklo https://twitter.com/Hegemommy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

At first I found “pregnant people” tedious, but a shocking number on the right wing actually need reminders that cis/straight women are, in fact, people, as opposed to hosts for the glorious, God-sustained fetus. To say nothing of the folks that don’t identify as women. So I’m ok with it. Pregnant humans, citizens that are pregnant, humans that are actively sustaining potential humans by their blood and organs, whatever it takes.

Potential human? A human is a human. Nothing on earth changes from non-human to human.

No. Stop it.

It is not equal to the women carrying it.

WOMEN FIRST!

all humans are equal

Nothing is human until it is born. If it can't survive on its own it is not human.

A 6 month old baby is born and can’t survive on his or her own. A born toddler or preschool child is born but can’t survive on his or her own. Apparently according to dcum baby killers, those children aren’t human.

A baby inside it’s mom is a human in early stages of development. Thread calling people monsters is really monsters openly admitting they don’t feel babies aren’t human and are ok with killing them. Sick people here.

Adult humans on life support can’t survive on his or her own, do they lose the human classification during that time? What about children that mature into adults but are born with physical or mental disabilities and will never be able to care for themselves? Are they human?

You are just being purposely stupid.

If it can't live without a host, by definition it is a parasite. I am not required to give over my body to anyone else for it to survive.

Plus, in many cases it is legal to terminate life support, either because there is a living will or because the next of kin so choose. This is another example of personal medical decision in between the person on life support if they have a living will, their family and their medical team. It happens every day, in every state. Without all this drama.

Way to self own PP.

Dp- not sure what point is being made here. No one is making those decisions without power of attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of a good lawyer to follow on Twitter about the abortion fight? I follow Marc Elias for info on voting rights lawsuits and it makes me feel so much better to hear from someone "in the trenches" actually doing something. Anyone similar for abortion lawsuits?

Imani Gandy (though she does insist on using the tedious “pregnant people”) https://twitter.com/AngryBlackLady?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor and Jessica Mason Pieklo https://twitter.com/Hegemommy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

At first I found “pregnant people” tedious, but a shocking number on the right wing actually need reminders that cis/straight women are, in fact, people, as opposed to hosts for the glorious, God-sustained fetus. To say nothing of the folks that don’t identify as women. So I’m ok with it. Pregnant humans, citizens that are pregnant, humans that are actively sustaining potential humans by their blood and organs, whatever it takes.

Potential human? A human is a human. Nothing on earth changes from non-human to human.

No. Stop it.

It is not equal to the women carrying it.

WOMEN FIRST!

all humans are equal

Nothing is human until it is born. If it can't survive on its own it is not human.

A 6 month old baby is born and can’t survive on his or her own. A born toddler or preschool child is born but can’t survive on his or her own. Apparently according to dcum baby killers, those children aren’t human.

A baby inside it’s mom is a human in early stages of development. Thread calling people monsters is really monsters openly admitting they don’t feel babies aren’t human and are ok with killing them. Sick people here.

Adult humans on life support can’t survive on his or her own, do they lose the human classification during that time? What about children that mature into adults but are born with physical or mental disabilities and will never be able to care for themselves? Are they human?

You are just being purposely stupid.

If it can't live without a host, by definition it is a parasite. I am not required to give over my body to anyone else for it to survive.

Plus, in many cases it is legal to terminate life support, either because there is a living will or because the next of kin so choose. This is another example of personal medical decision in between the person on life support if they have a living will, their family and their medical team. It happens every day, in every state. Without all this drama.

Way to self own PP.

Those are not the cases I’m talking about. Depressed people who are not satisfied with the quality of their life or mental state should be allowed to commit suicide a parent Belgium and a few other countries. Not everyone wants to medicate their way out, or see quality of life change with some meds. It is their life and they should be able to take it under a doctor’s supervision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People come before cells that may or may not form humans.

Why is this even a question?

People don't care much about babies after they are born, otherwise we would universal health care, day care and other supports.

Stop lying, pro birthers.

FORCED BIRTHERS

says you, who has a vaccine in their body, developed with the cells from a human who didn’t give consent for their cells to be used in such a manner.

Sweetie, not only did I get that vaccine…
I donated my left over embryos from IVF for science.
Why? Cause they aren’t humans. They belonged to me and I gave consent.
Suck it.

They are definitely humans.

Human embryonic development, or human embryogenesis, is the development and formation of the human embryo. It is characterised by the processes of cell division and cellular differentiation of the embryo that occurs during the early stages of development.

Oh they are definitely not humans. They are spliced apart in a lab somewhere.

They are human embryos used in experiments. But human no matter what. What process can make non- humans, human? Or humans, non- human? None. You are confused about basic biology. Just because humans are experimented on, doesn’t take away their humanness . You are not very bright.

If a deranged person cuts another person, it doesn’t make the cut person non-human.

I realize it’s worthless arguing with you, so I’ll try to make this my last post. You are convinced that an acorn and a tree are the some thing, with equal value. They are not.
The cells I donated will go to help actual humans.
1-2 cells that might one day become a human isn’t a human.

Those are some very unpersuasive semantics you have there.

Where is your evidence that human embryos are not human?

No one is saying that it is an embryo for anything other than a human.
It’s species is human.
It’s the building block of a person.
If allowed to progress it would grow organs and limbs.
No one disagrees.
I just don’t care about it.
Like… at all.

Well, be clear then, we are using the cells of humans without consent of those humans. Let’s not play the one cell is too much game…because it’s a fallacy. We use cells from humans w/o their consent and pretend they aren’t human cells. I guess that’s how people pretend it’s ok while maintaining their bodies are sacrosanct.

NP here. By this logic, do I need my parents to consent when I decide to give blood? After all, my entire body exists because of their reproductive gametes.

[Anonymous]

If you are pro-abortion you should also be pro-right to die — whether the person is physically healthy or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are pro-abortion you should also be pro-right to die — whether the person is physically healthy or not.

I’m anti-life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People come before cells that may or may not form humans.

Why is this even a question?

People don't care much about babies after they are born, otherwise we would universal health care, day care and other supports.

Stop lying, pro birthers.

FORCED BIRTHERS

says you, who has a vaccine in their body, developed with the cells from a human who didn’t give consent for their cells to be used in such a manner.

Sweetie, not only did I get that vaccine…
I donated my left over embryos from IVF for science.
Why? Cause they aren’t humans. They belonged to me and I gave consent.
Suck it.

They are definitely humans.

Human embryonic development, or human embryogenesis, is the development and formation of the human embryo. It is characterised by the processes of cell division and cellular differentiation of the embryo that occurs during the early stages of development.

Oh they are definitely not humans. They are spliced apart in a lab somewhere.

They are human embryos used in experiments. But human no matter what. What process can make non- humans, human? Or humans, non- human? None. You are confused about basic biology. Just because humans are experimented on, doesn’t take away their humanness . You are not very bright.

If a deranged person cuts another person, it doesn’t make the cut person non-human.

I realize it’s worthless arguing with you, so I’ll try to make this my last post. You are convinced that an acorn and a tree are the some thing, with equal value. They are not.
The cells I donated will go to help actual humans.
1-2 cells that might one day become a human isn’t a human.

Those are some very unpersuasive semantics you have there.

Where is your evidence that human embryos are not human?

No one is saying that it is an embryo for anything other than a human.
It’s species is human.
It’s the building block of a person.
If allowed to progress it would grow organs and limbs.
No one disagrees.
I just don’t care about it.
Like… at all.

Well, be clear then, we are using the cells of humans without consent of those humans. Let’s not play the one cell is too much game…because it’s a fallacy. We use cells from humans w/o their consent and pretend they aren’t human cells. I guess that’s how people pretend it’s ok while maintaining their bodies are sacrosanct.

NP here. By this logic, do I need my parents to consent when I decide to give blood? After all, my entire body exists because of their reproductive gametes.

Why do they need permission for earrings and tattoos?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are pro-abortion you should also be pro-right to die — whether the person is physically healthy or not.

To be clear, it’s not exactly hard to commit suicide very effectively in a country with more guns than citizens. And if you aren’t effective and end up the ER, you get a psych hold and treatment. Women don’t commit suicide effectively because they tend to use pills, not guns. But if you are determined enough, you can kill yourself. And if you miss the first time, 72 hours later, you are free to try again. People are not criminally charged for suicide attempts. I know this first hand, unfortunately.

And we are talking about being charged with a crime for abortion. Not societal disapproval. Not the loss of a job. A criminal conviction. Please stop arguing losing your job. And being sent to jail are the same. They are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You do realize that a majority of women in the entire world, which is made up of more than white liberal cat ladies (I know, shocker), would find this whole argument to sound unhinged and ridiculous, right? See how far this argument gets you with women in France, which has far stricter abortion laws than here. Better yet try this argument with women in Instanbul, Nairobi, Jakarta, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You do realize that a majority of women in the entire world, which is made up of more than white liberal cat ladies (I know, shocker), would find this whole argument to sound unhinged and ridiculous, right? See how far this argument gets you with women in France, which has far stricter abortion laws than here. Better yet try this argument with women in Instanbul, Nairobi, Jakarta, etc.

Dp- I live in the US. I don’t care what they think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People come before cells that may or may not form humans.

Why is this even a question?

People don't care much about babies after they are born, otherwise we would universal health care, day care and other supports.

Stop lying, pro birthers.

FORCED BIRTHERS

says you, who has a vaccine in their body, developed with the cells from a human who didn’t give consent for their cells to be used in such a manner.

Sweetie, not only did I get that vaccine…
I donated my left over embryos from IVF for science.
Why? Cause they aren’t humans. They belonged to me and I gave consent.
Suck it.

They are definitely humans.

Human embryonic development, or human embryogenesis, is the development and formation of the human embryo. It is characterised by the processes of cell division and cellular differentiation of the embryo that occurs during the early stages of development.

Oh they are definitely not humans. They are spliced apart in a lab somewhere.

They are human embryos used in experiments. But human no matter what. What process can make non- humans, human? Or humans, non- human? None. You are confused about basic biology. Just because humans are experimented on, doesn’t take away their humanness . You are not very bright.

If a deranged person cuts another person, it doesn’t make the cut person non-human.

I realize it’s worthless arguing with you, so I’ll try to make this my last post. You are convinced that an acorn and a tree are the some thing, with equal value. They are not.
The cells I donated will go to help actual humans.
1-2 cells that might one day become a human isn’t a human.

Those are some very unpersuasive semantics you have there.

Where is your evidence that human embryos are not human?

No one is saying that it is an embryo for anything other than a human.
It’s species is human.
It’s the building block of a person.
If allowed to progress it would grow organs and limbs.
No one disagrees.
I just don’t care about it.
Like… at all.

Well, be clear then, we are using the cells of humans without consent of those humans. Let’s not play the one cell is too much game…because it’s a fallacy. We use cells from humans w/o their consent and pretend they aren’t human cells. I guess that’s how people pretend it’s ok while maintaining their bodies are sacrosanct.

NP here. By this logic, do I need my parents to consent when I decide to give blood? After all, my entire body exists because of their reproductive gametes.

Why do they need permission for earrings and tattoos?

??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You do realize that a majority of women in the entire world, which is made up of more than white liberal cat ladies (I know, shocker), would find this whole argument to sound unhinged and ridiculous, right? See how far this argument gets you with women in France, which has far stricter abortion laws than here. Better yet try this argument with women in Instanbul, Nairobi, Jakarta, etc.

DP. You realize that women the world over are actually advocating (and winning) more abortion rights due to the horrific maiming and health consequences they face due to forced birth policies?

As someone who has spent a lot of time in NICUs, who went through years of treatments to have children, and who almost died in childbirth after a very normal and healthy pregnancy...I will just say STFU about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People come before cells that may or may not form humans.

Why is this even a question?

People don't care much about babies after they are born, otherwise we would universal health care, day care and other supports.

Stop lying, pro birthers.

FORCED BIRTHERS

says you, who has a vaccine in their body, developed with the cells from a human who didn’t give consent for their cells to be used in such a manner.

Sweetie, not only did I get that vaccine…
I donated my left over embryos from IVF for science.
Why? Cause they aren’t humans. They belonged to me and I gave consent.
Suck it.

They are definitely humans.

Human embryonic development, or human embryogenesis, is the development and formation of the human embryo. It is characterised by the processes of cell division and cellular differentiation of the embryo that occurs during the early stages of development.

Oh they are definitely not humans. They are spliced apart in a lab somewhere.

They are human embryos used in experiments. But human no matter what. What process can make non- humans, human? Or humans, non- human? None. You are confused about basic biology. Just because humans are experimented on, doesn’t take away their humanness . You are not very bright.

If a deranged person cuts another person, it doesn’t make the cut person non-human.

I realize it’s worthless arguing with you, so I’ll try to make this my last post. You are convinced that an acorn and a tree are the some thing, with equal value. They are not.
The cells I donated will go to help actual humans.
1-2 cells that might one day become a human isn’t a human.

Those are some very unpersuasive semantics you have there.

Where is your evidence that human embryos are not human?

No one is saying that it is an embryo for anything other than a human.
It’s species is human.
It’s the building block of a person.
If allowed to progress it would grow organs and limbs.
No one disagrees.
I just don’t care about it.
Like… at all.

Well, be clear then, we are using the cells of humans without consent of those humans. Let’s not play the one cell is too much game…because it’s a fallacy. We use cells from humans w/o their consent and pretend they aren’t human cells. I guess that’s how people pretend it’s ok while maintaining their bodies are sacrosanct.

NP here. By this logic, do I need my parents to consent when I decide to give blood? After all, my entire body exists because of their reproductive gametes.

Why do they need permission for earrings and tattoos?

??

At this point in the thread I believe they are asking:

Who gives permission for the suicidal zygote to get a tattoo.