The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why my post didn’t work but was saying Cam comes onto Daphne and she’s delighted, and they’ve got the dream dynamic but they really really don’t. So then what is really the dream dynamic and is it even possible?

There is no dream dynamic. Other people suck. The show seem to be saying that you can compartmentalize/ignore the things that are negative about your spouse and continue to live a happy life.

My favorite scene from the last episode was when both couples were on the beach. Ethan was stewing and just glaring at Cameron & Daphne, who were acting like lovey teenagers and joking around. You could see the wheels turning in his head - “Why am I in trouble with my wife when I did nothing wrong, while this prick who banged a prostitute gets lavished with romantic attention from his wife? IT’S NOT FAIR.”

I hate how everyone is maintaining lies / unspoken truths on behalf of Cameron. No one seems to want to disrupt his Apple cart and clear the air. Instead, everyone tiptoes around the truth of Cameron’s shitty behavior. Maybe that’s real power.

Harper and Ethan are both angry and miserable. Cam and Daphne have a great love between them even though he’s flawed. They enjoy life.

Wow, I don't see it this way at all (DP, btw).

My feeling is that this is a snapshot in time of these two couples, and Ethan and Harper are in a period of turmoil and upheaval. It's clear they've been recently disconnected, that they (or for sure at least Harper) are struggling a bit to come to terms with their new wealth, and that they haven't been communicating well. There's also clearly a looming issue regarding kids that is linked to their lack of sex -- either they are not in agreement about wanting kids or there is something else going on because they aren't on the same page.But I wouldn't describe either of them as angry and miserable people generally, or even in their marriage. You see glimpses of a functional, positive relationship there. It may not look as sexy to others, but I relate more to the way Ethan and Harper will quickly kiss goodbye before parting than the way Cam and Daphne are all over each other. I relate to the side-by-side reading/working in bed coupled with some gossip and discussion. I sense that they have pretty similar politics and world outlooks, and that they like and respect each other. The attraction is an issue, especially Ethan toward Harper, but I anticipate it's not that he's unattracted -- there is something else going on.

Cameron and Daphne are different. There's obviously real affection but there's also a lot of artifice, I think. Especially on Daphne's side. She's a real cipher and you can tell in how different she is when she's alone with Harper (much lower energy, moodier, some anger in there too) that the hot, sexy, love bunny things she does with Cameron is not just who she is -- it's a version, but it's not the whole story. And meanwhile, watch the energy Cameron has with Daphne versus with Harper or with Lucia and Mia. It's the same energy. He's just a horny dude. He's more familiar with Daphne but the energy is the same -- I want you. The only time this shifted was when they talked about Daphne's emergency c-section. But even that was centered around Cameron's needs -- I want you, I can't lose you. I don't get that sense of mutual respect. Cameron is the center of their marriage. His needs. Daphne finds ways to meet her needs on the margins, but importantly, her needs are not met in or by the marriage, except insofar as it has facilitated motherhood.

I don't think either marriage is ideal, at all. But if I absolutely had to choose, I'd choose Ethan/Harper because I think with a basis of shared goals and mutual respect, you can work through a lot of stuff. I know I have in my marriage. What Daphne and Cameron has looks desirable in the moment -- all the lovey touching and compliments. But I think longterm I would not want to be in Daphne's position. It would eat me up. Sure, my husband desires me. But he desires everything. I don't find that dynamic remotely appealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why my post didn’t work but was saying Cam comes onto Daphne and she’s delighted, and they’ve got the dream dynamic but they really really don’t. So then what is really the dream dynamic and is it even possible?

There is no dream dynamic. Other people suck. The show seem to be saying that you can compartmentalize/ignore the things that are negative about your spouse and continue to live a happy life.

My favorite scene from the last episode was when both couples were on the beach. Ethan was stewing and just glaring at Cameron & Daphne, who were acting like lovey teenagers and joking around. You could see the wheels turning in his head - “Why am I in trouble with my wife when I did nothing wrong, while this prick who banged a prostitute gets lavished with romantic attention from his wife? IT’S NOT FAIR.”

I hate how everyone is maintaining lies / unspoken truths on behalf of Cameron. No one seems to want to disrupt his Apple cart and clear the air. Instead, everyone tiptoes around the truth of Cameron’s shitty behavior. Maybe that’s real power.

Harper and Ethan are both angry and miserable. Cam and Daphne have a great love between them even though he’s flawed. They enjoy life.

Wow, I don't see it this way at all (DP, btw).

My feeling is that this is a snapshot in time of these two couples, and Ethan and Harper are in a period of turmoil and upheaval. It's clear they've been recently disconnected, that they (or for sure at least Harper) are struggling a bit to come to terms with their new wealth, and that they haven't been communicating well. There's also clearly a looming issue regarding kids that is linked to their lack of sex -- either they are not in agreement about wanting kids or there is something else going on because they aren't on the same page.But I wouldn't describe either of them as angry and miserable people generally, or even in their marriage. You see glimpses of a functional, positive relationship there. It may not look as sexy to others, but I relate more to the way Ethan and Harper will quickly kiss goodbye before parting than the way Cam and Daphne are all over each other. I relate to the side-by-side reading/working in bed coupled with some gossip and discussion. I sense that they have pretty similar politics and world outlooks, and that they like and respect each other. The attraction is an issue, especially Ethan toward Harper, but I anticipate it's not that he's unattracted -- there is something else going on.

Cameron and Daphne are different. There's obviously real affection but there's also a lot of artifice, I think. Especially on Daphne's side. She's a real cipher and you can tell in how different she is when she's alone with Harper (much lower energy, moodier, some anger in there too) that the hot, sexy, love bunny things she does with Cameron is not just who she is -- it's a version, but it's not the whole story. And meanwhile, watch the energy Cameron has with Daphne versus with Harper or with Lucia and Mia. It's the same energy. He's just a horny dude. He's more familiar with Daphne but the energy is the same -- I want you. The only time this shifted was when they talked about Daphne's emergency c-section. But even that was centered around Cameron's needs -- I want you, I can't lose you. I don't get that sense of mutual respect. Cameron is the center of their marriage. His needs. Daphne finds ways to meet her needs on the margins, but importantly, her needs are not met in or by the marriage, except insofar as it has facilitated motherhood.

I don't think either marriage is ideal, at all. But if I absolutely had to choose, I'd choose Ethan/Harper because I think with a basis of shared goals and mutual respect, you can work through a lot of stuff. I know I have in my marriage. What Daphne and Cameron has looks desirable in the moment -- all the lovey touching and compliments. But I think longterm I would not want to be in Daphne's position. It would eat me up. Sure, my husband desires me. But he desires everything. I don't find that dynamic remotely appealing.

This is a spot on analysis of both relationships and all the individuals in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rather than Tanya, I think Quentin might die. I have a wish that Tanya stops hooking up with the Italian drug dealer before it goes further than we saw last week. She knows enough that something isn't right, maybe gets another vision of shark eyes (Quentin's glare at her seemed to fit the bill) and pulls away. She seemed pretty happy/normal Tanya in the two scenes in next week's preview - not filled with regret or worry over her actions. And I think Quentin matches the Isola Bella story, and even Madama Butterfly, better than Tanya. Like Madama Butterfly, he was the original lover of Greg, and now Greg has finally returned to him but with a wife. He's also holding onto his palazzo at all costs like the Isola Bella lady, and now must owe the mafia a bunch of money for that party and all that coke. If he can't pay up / the con didn't work, maybe Nicolo shoots him? It would be ironic after his suggestive questioning of Tanya about whether she'd be willing to die for beauty if he in fact did.

I also think Cameron might get killed because he is like the testa di moro. The visiting dark man who seduces a local Sicilian girl and then plans to leave to return to his wife and children. He seems utterly unconcerned with paying Lucia - it could be he gets killed by Albie, Alessio, or Lucia. Then again, Daphne's been jokingly alluding to murder since the first episode, so she might kill him.

Quentin and Cameron are also both playing at having the mega-rich lifestyle while possibly being broke or nearly broke. We know Quentin is desperate for money and there are big hints that Cam isn't as rich as he lets on.

Both the testa di moro legend and Madama Butterfly involve death by knife, and the opening credits show one or two people getting stabbed / holding knives - so perhaps a knife is involved? Or I'm being far too literal and people are just getting stabbed in the back by people they trust.

Tanya was hesitant about sex with the Italian guy. She said something about being old, but I honestly think Tanya is hestitating because she is married. And sex with someone else is a betrayal. Tanya is a flake, but she seems to place value on convention. She traveled to bury her mother. She married Greg - not live with, not a long-distance relationship. Marriage. I think that means something to her. What happens when/if she refuses and/or Portia returns is a wild card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the juice:

Portia does not die. Tanya does not die either. She is blackmailed, but does not die.

Think a more unlikely victim (s) for the death, and a VERY surprising yet totally rational culprit.

Ethan is the victim, the new money: Harper wants the money, but doesn’t want to spend her life with Ethan.

When Cameron feels up Harper’s leg, I was surprised she never told Ethan. She’s a lawyer who deals with sexual harassment claims…her job is to fight against sh#tty behavior by men. Yet she omits this truth from Ethan….why? Especially after her getting upset toward Ethan about the night with the hookers. Why didn’t she come clean about Cameron’s behavior?

I think Cameron and Harper are perhaps having a longtime affair and in cahoots. Perhaps Harper actually represented Cameron’s firm in his harassment cases?

Lol no.

She doesn’t need to “come clean” about Cameron’s crap behavior— she didn’t do anything wrong. Also, after Cameron strips in front of her, she DOES tell Ethan and he has basically no reaction. So maybe she figures that between being mad at Ethan and the fact that he didn’t seem to care before, she figures what is the point of telling him more?

Also, no way Harper and Cameron have a longtime affair. These people barely know each other and we witness several scenes between the two of them alone where Harper clearly does not like him and they have no established history.

Sometimes I wonder if the people posting on this thread are really young or just read recaps of the show or something. This “analysis” is just you guys making up random plots based on nothing.

So much this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than Tanya, I think Quentin might die. I have a wish that Tanya stops hooking up with the Italian drug dealer before it goes further than we saw last week. She knows enough that something isn't right, maybe gets another vision of shark eyes (Quentin's glare at her seemed to fit the bill) and pulls away. She seemed pretty happy/normal Tanya in the two scenes in next week's preview - not filled with regret or worry over her actions. And I think Quentin matches the Isola Bella story, and even Madama Butterfly, better than Tanya. Like Madama Butterfly, he was the original lover of Greg, and now Greg has finally returned to him but with a wife. He's also holding onto his palazzo at all costs like the Isola Bella lady, and now must owe the mafia a bunch of money for that party and all that coke. If he can't pay up / the con didn't work, maybe Nicolo shoots him? It would be ironic after his suggestive questioning of Tanya about whether she'd be willing to die for beauty if he in fact did.

I also think Cameron might get killed because he is like the testa di moro. The visiting dark man who seduces a local Sicilian girl and then plans to leave to return to his wife and children. He seems utterly unconcerned with paying Lucia - it could be he gets killed by Albie, Alessio, or Lucia. Then again, Daphne's been jokingly alluding to murder since the first episode, so she might kill him.

Quentin and Cameron are also both playing at having the mega-rich lifestyle while possibly being broke or nearly broke. We know Quentin is desperate for money and there are big hints that Cam isn't as rich as he lets on.

Both the testa di moro legend and Madama Butterfly involve death by knife, and the opening credits show one or two people getting stabbed / holding knives - so perhaps a knife is involved? Or I'm being far too literal and people are just getting stabbed in the back by people they trust.

Tanya was hesitant about sex with the Italian guy. She said something about being old, but I honestly think Tanya is hestitating because she is married. And sex with someone else is a betrayal. Tanya is a flake, but she seems to place value on convention. She traveled to bury her mother. She married Greg - not live with, not a long-distance relationship. Marriage. I think that means something to her. What happens when/if she refuses and/or Portia returns is a wild card.

Do we think she actually went through with it with the Italian guy? Maybe what was shown in episode 7 and recorded on the painting camera is sufficient.

[Anonymous]

I feel dumb that I did not pick up on there being a camera in the painting recording what was going on with Tanya at the end of the last episode. Like I saw the scene and remember the paining, but didn't catch that there was a camera in it. That seems obvious now because it was clear that the whole night was a set up to entrap Tanya in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel dumb that I did not pick up on there being a camera in the painting recording what was going on with Tanya at the end of the last episode. Like I saw the scene and remember the paining, but didn't catch that there was a camera in it. That seems obvious now because it was clear that the whole night was a set up to entrap Tanya in some way.

Hopefully she just passed out before there was culmination of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the juice:

Portia does not die. Tanya does not die either. She is blackmailed, but does not die.

Think a more unlikely victim (s) for the death, and a VERY surprising yet totally rational culprit.

Ethan is the victim, the new money: Harper wants the money, but doesn’t want to spend her life with Ethan.

When Cameron feels up Harper’s leg, I was surprised she never told Ethan. She’s a lawyer who deals with sexual harassment claims…her job is to fight against sh#tty behavior by men. Yet she omits this truth from Ethan….why? Especially after her getting upset toward Ethan about the night with the hookers. Why didn’t she come clean about Cameron’s behavior?

I think Cameron and Harper are perhaps having a longtime affair and in cahoots. Perhaps Harper actually represented Cameron’s firm in his harassment cases?

Lol no.

She doesn’t need to “come clean” about Cameron’s crap behavior— she didn’t do anything wrong. Also, after Cameron strips in front of her, she DOES tell Ethan and he has basically no reaction. So maybe she figures that between being mad at Ethan and the fact that he didn’t seem to care before, she figures what is the point of telling him more?

Also, no way Harper and Cameron have a longtime affair. These people barely know each other and we witness several scenes between the two of them alone where Harper clearly does not like him and they have no established history.

Sometimes I wonder if the people posting on this thread are really young or just read recaps of the show or something. This “analysis” is just you guys making up random plots based on nothing.

You’re stuck with us - deal with it!

Then might I gently suggest actually watching the show we’re talking about and basing your comments on what we actually see happening in the show? Perhaps another thread for WL fanfic.

Dude did you see the end of Season 1. The ending was so random. By your logic, if PP had spun that one out you would have called her out for writing fan fiction. But there you go. Anything is possible and on the table for the end of Season 2.

Good point; the ending of Season 1 was insane. My theory about Harper & Cameron isn’t so far fetched. It would make sense that if Harper was the Other Woman, she would be obsessed with calling out Daphne/Cameron’s relationship as “fake.”

I think Daphne cheating on Cam by trying to get with Ethan makes a lot more sense for all the characters than Harper hooking up with Cameron. I think she is repulsed by him and if there is a Cameron/Harper moment I think it will be nonconsensual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than Tanya, I think Quentin might die. I have a wish that Tanya stops hooking up with the Italian drug dealer before it goes further than we saw last week. She knows enough that something isn't right, maybe gets another vision of shark eyes (Quentin's glare at her seemed to fit the bill) and pulls away. She seemed pretty happy/normal Tanya in the two scenes in next week's preview - not filled with regret or worry over her actions. And I think Quentin matches the Isola Bella story, and even Madama Butterfly, better than Tanya. Like Madama Butterfly, he was the original lover of Greg, and now Greg has finally returned to him but with a wife. He's also holding onto his palazzo at all costs like the Isola Bella lady, and now must owe the mafia a bunch of money for that party and all that coke. If he can't pay up / the con didn't work, maybe Nicolo shoots him? It would be ironic after his suggestive questioning of Tanya about whether she'd be willing to die for beauty if he in fact did.

I also think Cameron might get killed because he is like the testa di moro. The visiting dark man who seduces a local Sicilian girl and then plans to leave to return to his wife and children. He seems utterly unconcerned with paying Lucia - it could be he gets killed by Albie, Alessio, or Lucia. Then again, Daphne's been jokingly alluding to murder since the first episode, so she might kill him.

Quentin and Cameron are also both playing at having the mega-rich lifestyle while possibly being broke or nearly broke. We know Quentin is desperate for money and there are big hints that Cam isn't as rich as he lets on.

Both the testa di moro legend and Madama Butterfly involve death by knife, and the opening credits show one or two people getting stabbed / holding knives - so perhaps a knife is involved? Or I'm being far too literal and people are just getting stabbed in the back by people they trust.

Tanya was hesitant about sex with the Italian guy. She said something about being old, but I honestly think Tanya is hestitating because she is married. And sex with someone else is a betrayal. Tanya is a flake, but she seems to place value on convention. She traveled to bury her mother. She married Greg - not live with, not a long-distance relationship. Marriage. I think that means something to her. What happens when/if she refuses and/or Portia returns is a wild card.

Do we think she actually went through with it with the Italian guy? Maybe what was shown in episode 7 and recorded on the painting camera is sufficient.

It was ambiguous. I think there's a 50/50 chance she wakes up in bed naked with the guy or we start exactly where we left off and she puts on the brakes. But she was being coaxed into sex there at the end.

[Anonymous]

I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

I agree and said as much 30 or so pages back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

I agree and said as much 30 or so pages back.

That seems to make sense, but if so why is female porn his porn of choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

I agree and said as much 30 or so pages back.

That seems to make sense, but if so why is female porn his porn of choice?

Yeah. He was jerking off to women with big boobs, the opposite of his wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why my post didn’t work but was saying Cam comes onto Daphne and she’s delighted, and they’ve got the dream dynamic but they really really don’t. So then what is really the dream dynamic and is it even possible?

There is no dream dynamic. Other people suck. The show seem to be saying that you can compartmentalize/ignore the things that are negative about your spouse and continue to live a happy life.

My favorite scene from the last episode was when both couples were on the beach. Ethan was stewing and just glaring at Cameron & Daphne, who were acting like lovey teenagers and joking around. You could see the wheels turning in his head - “Why am I in trouble with my wife when I did nothing wrong, while this prick who banged a prostitute gets lavished with romantic attention from his wife? IT’S NOT FAIR.”

I hate how everyone is maintaining lies / unspoken truths on behalf of Cameron. No one seems to want to disrupt his Apple cart and clear the air. Instead, everyone tiptoes around the truth of Cameron’s shitty behavior. Maybe that’s real power.

Harper and Ethan are both angry and miserable. Cam and Daphne have a great love between them even though he’s flawed. They enjoy life.

Wow, I don't see it this way at all (DP, btw).

My feeling is that this is a snapshot in time of these two couples, and Ethan and Harper are in a period of turmoil and upheaval. It's clear they've been recently disconnected, that they (or for sure at least Harper) are struggling a bit to come to terms with their new wealth, and that they haven't been communicating well. There's also clearly a looming issue regarding kids that is linked to their lack of sex -- either they are not in agreement about wanting kids or there is something else going on because they aren't on the same page.But I wouldn't describe either of them as angry and miserable people generally, or even in their marriage. You see glimpses of a functional, positive relationship there. It may not look as sexy to others, but I relate more to the way Ethan and Harper will quickly kiss goodbye before parting than the way Cam and Daphne are all over each other. I relate to the side-by-side reading/working in bed coupled with some gossip and discussion. I sense that they have pretty similar politics and world outlooks, and that they like and respect each other. The attraction is an issue, especially Ethan toward Harper, but I anticipate it's not that he's unattracted -- there is something else going on.

Cameron and Daphne are different. There's obviously real affection but there's also a lot of artifice, I think. Especially on Daphne's side. She's a real cipher and you can tell in how different she is when she's alone with Harper (much lower energy, moodier, some anger in there too) that the hot, sexy, love bunny things she does with Cameron is not just who she is -- it's a version, but it's not the whole story. And meanwhile, watch the energy Cameron has with Daphne versus with Harper or with Lucia and Mia. It's the same energy. He's just a horny dude. He's more familiar with Daphne but the energy is the same -- I want you. The only time this shifted was when they talked about Daphne's emergency c-section. But even that was centered around Cameron's needs -- I want you, I can't lose you. I don't get that sense of mutual respect. Cameron is the center of their marriage. His needs. Daphne finds ways to meet her needs on the margins, but importantly, her needs are not met in or by the marriage, except insofar as it has facilitated motherhood.

I don't think either marriage is ideal, at all. But if I absolutely had to choose, I'd choose Ethan/Harper because I think with a basis of shared goals and mutual respect, you can work through a lot of stuff. I know I have in my marriage. What Daphne and Cameron has looks desirable in the moment -- all the lovey touching and compliments. But I think longterm I would not want to be in Daphne's position. It would eat me up. Sure, my husband desires me. But he desires everything. I don't find that dynamic remotely appealing.

I think this is kind of an oversimplification of the point. I'm not sure it is artifice between Daphne and Cam. I think with Daphne her eyes are open and you are right she is a cypher and is different when she's on her own and you can see there is more going on there then she lets on. But I do feel like she loves him and has simply organized her life so she has all her needs met. I do think that's accurate that Cam is all about himself, but I do think he cares about her feelings, when Daphne is upset with him he feels compelled to take action to address it (the wine tasting), when she's acting suspicious he goes out of his way to provide her assurances, when Lucia approaches him his anger is about how this will effect his wife. I think some of this is self preservation but I do think Daphne's happiness is important to him and that he does demonstrate that. I do not think he is the center of the marriage and that she is on the margins, but I do think that Daphne evens the scales when she sees that something has created an imbalance (ie, I will not be the cheated upon wife, but I will be the woman in a couple where both parties cheat). She actually I think to the contrary strives to ensure there is equity, even if Cameron isn't entirely aware of it. Which is why I think this might end with HER trying to seduce Ethan.

Harper and Ethan I think you are giving a very rosy impression to. Ethan does not communicate an he is carrying around a lot of dark anger. And he is taking it out on Harper by criticizing her and withholding emotional intimacy. They are better PEOPLE (connected to the world, care about other people, intellectually engaged) but I am not convinced Ethan is any better of a partner than Cameron. He gets to say that because he didn't cheat he did nothing wrong, when in fact he lied to her, he did get kissed, he took a bunch of drugs with h**kers, he became a gregarious engaged person, something Harper wants desperately from him, with these other people. And then again, lied to her. He decides she cheated on him with someone she clearly loathes and is just riding her about this and accusing her of hooking up with Cameron. Notably, she never actually accuses him of anything, just asks questions after finding the wrapper, even after seeing him talking to Lucia and Mia she just asks him not to gaslight her. He immediately asks her if she hooked up with Cameron though.

Longterm I would not want to be in either of these positions, but I'm actually not sure I would choose a ticking time bomb like Ethan who reads but treats me like crap over an out-in-the-open rogue who might cheat on me but actually loves me like Cameron. Not really any good choices there though.

You can call this a snapshot in time, but the lack of trust is more than a snapshot. That's a personality flaw.

[Anonymous]

I’m the poster above, trying to answer my own question about Ethan. I think he’s really stunted in how he relates to women. Harper treats him like a child, at least in the beginning. She asks Ethan if he wants her, and he says I love you. Then he’s very jealous if she shows attention to Cam. It’s like a sibling rivalry to him. It’s not that he wants Harper, it’s that he can’t stand losing. Look at his temper tantrum when he says he didn’t cheat. He doesn’t cheat with Mia either likely because he doesn’t want to risk enraging mommy. This smacks of mommy issues, but we don’t know enough about him to know why.