Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing some of you apparently do not know or do not remember is that when colleges began recruiting and admitting more women and then more underrepresented minority students, they all did so by expanding overall enrollment, so that the new admits did not displace white males and legacies. That practice has continued, but now because they increased enrollment back then, there are even more legacy applicants, including the children and grandchildren of the first wave of women and minority students.

Yet data show legacies are still overwhelmingly white. Your anecdotes about URM applicants do not make the data invalid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing some of you apparently do not know or do not remember is that when colleges began recruiting and admitting more women and then more underrepresented minority students, they all did so by expanding overall enrollment, so that the new admits did not displace white males and legacies. That practice has continued, but now because they increased enrollment back then, there are even more legacy applicants, including the children and grandchildren of the first wave of women and minority students.

Yet data show legacies are still overwhelmingly white. Your anecdotes about URM applicants do not make the data invalid.

+1 and adding:

The data actually shows that at Ivys, UCs, top liberal arts colleges, state flagships, other national universities (Duke, Vanderbilt, etc) blacks and hispanics are MORE underrepresented than they were 25 years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale just rescinded admission for one student caught up in cheating scandal, but no name released:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6847633/Yale-University-rescinds-admission-one-student-implicated-college-admissions-scandal.html


It’s not fair that the student wasn’t named, if the Loughlin daughters and others have been outed.

Why are the Tobin daughters still there at Yale?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale just rescinded admission for one student caught up in cheating scandal, but no name released:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6847633/Yale-University-rescinds-admission-one-student-implicated-college-admissions-scandal.html


It’s not fair that the student wasn’t named, if the Loughlin daughters and others have been outed.

Why are the Tobin daughters still there at Yale?

Presumably because it will take time for Yale to investigate, make a determination of fraud, and kick the students out. They didn't quit like Olivia Jade did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale just rescinded admission for one student caught up in cheating scandal, but no name released:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6847633/Yale-University-rescinds-admission-one-student-implicated-college-admissions-scandal.html


It’s not fair that the student wasn’t named, if the Loughlin daughters and others have been outed.

Why are the Tobin daughters still there at Yale?

Presumably because it will take time for Yale to investigate, make a determination of fraud, and kick the students out. They didn't quit like Olivia Jade did.

See the correction on the article below.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/03/25/yale-rescinds-admission-of-student-implicated-in-nationwide-admissions-scandal/
Correction, March 25: A previous version of the story stated that the Wall Street Journal reported on March 19 that, according to a person familiar with the investigation, Tobin participated in the scam by accepting a bribe. In fact, he allegedly participated in the scam by paying a bribe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”

Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?

Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.

How do you make sure your kid fits into multiple buckets and has multiple hooks? Outside of her academic qualifications, my daughter doesn’t fit into any buckets. None that colleges would care about anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”

Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?

Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.

+1. The URMs at my daughter's school that just got into top 15s were either full-pay rich/legacy or recruited athletes.

The pp that you plussed one said that she didn’t know any parents who didn’t make sure that their kid couldn’t fit into more than one bucket. How does a parent make sure that their kid is an URM, full pay/rich legacy, or a recruited athlete?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”

Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?

Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.

How do you make sure your kid fits into multiple buckets and has multiple hooks? Outside of her academic qualifications, my daughter doesn’t fit into any

buckets. None that colleges would care about anyways.

Many grads make sure their kids have hobbies that give them a hook. Kids are introduced to activities at an early age and what they enjoy is typically pursued to a top level. People also think about schools and housing in a totally different manner. Basically they make a point, consciously or subconsciously, NOT to get to Seniior year high school and not to have no hooks.

[Anonymous]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-29/for-edge-in-ivy-league-admissions-grab-an-oar-and-start-rowing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”

Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?

Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.

How do you make sure your kid fits into multiple buckets and has multiple hooks? Outside of her academic qualifications, my daughter doesn’t fit into any

buckets. None that colleges would care about anyways.

Many grads make sure their kids have hobbies that give them a hook. Kids are introduced to activities at an early age and what they enjoy is typically pursued to a top level. People also think about schools and housing in a totally different manner. Basically they make a point, consciously or subconsciously, NOT to get to Seniior year high school and not to have no hooks.

Yeah, but what activities can you be certain are a “hook” other than being a recruited athlete? And most kids who have played a sport since preschool don’t reach a level where they are recruited. And what “totally different manner of looking at schools and housing is there that would provide a “hook” to colleges? It’s not like attending a specific HS is a hook to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”

Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?

Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.

How do you make sure your kid fits into multiple buckets and has multiple hooks? Outside of her academic qualifications, my daughter doesn’t fit into any

buckets. None that colleges would care about anyways.

Many grads make sure their kids have hobbies that give them a hook. Kids are introduced to activities at an early age and what they enjoy is typically pursued to a top level. People also think about schools and housing in a totally different manner. Basically they make a point, consciously or subconsciously, NOT to get to Seniior year high school and not to have no hooks.

I think you are misusing the term hooks. Very few activities outside of recruited sports would be considered hooks to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing some of you apparently do not know or do not remember is that when colleges began recruiting and admitting more women and then more underrepresented minority students, they all did so by expanding overall enrollment, so that the new admits did not displace white males and legacies. That practice has continued, but now because they increased enrollment back then, there are even more legacy applicants, including the children and grandchildren of the first wave of women and minority students.

Yet data show legacies are still overwhelmingly white. Your anecdotes about URM applicants do not make the data invalid.

I don't know what point you thought I was making. I was not defending legacies, I was explaining that affirmative action never takes slots away from legacies, and agreeing with a previous poster that minority legacies are now taking more of the URM slots.

[Anonymous]

"As the college admissions scandal investigation widens, more parents are coming under scrutiny.

Sources familiar with the investigation but not authorized to discuss it say several parents and their attorneys have been informed they are the subject of the federal inquiry.

More than 750 parents used self-described “master coach” William “Rick” Singer’s services, according to prosecutors.

While 33 have been charged, the sources say prosecutors have sent subpoenas to high schools in Southern California with names of students whose parents have not been charged — which suggests authorities are preparing to expand the number of prosecutions."

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-college-admissions-scandal-parents-20190325-story.html

[Anonymous]

"They’re taking a hard line during plea negotiations, seeking guilty pleas to felonies, lawyers involved in the case said. The government has given defendants only a few weeks to accept a plea or face indictment and possible additional charges, they said. On Friday it said in a filing that it’s preparing to charge others in the case.

“The government’s being very aggressive," said Patric Hooper, who is representing oncologist Greg Colburn and his wife, Amy. “My perception is they want a felony plea from all the parents. That’s what they wanted from us.” "

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-29/elite-parents-find-themselves-on-the-world-s-worst-college-tour

[Anonymous]

"In a sign of prosecutors’ aggressiveness, a grand jury on Tuesday indicted the Colburns for conspiracy to commit both fraud and money laundering, after they balked at a felony plea deal that could have cost Colburn his physician’s license, Hooper said. The money-laundering conspiracy charge could add months to a prison sentence if the Colburns are convicted."