Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"
The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"
If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!
FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:
What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.
Congratulations to the semifinalists!
It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?
Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.
Why ain't no kids from schools like Mount Vernon High School?
I thought, according to progressive liberal logic, the top 1.5% of kids from every school are on the same level of academic aptitude.
Because by the time kids are juniors in high school, they've already been removed from the pyramid if the parents are seeking other options. The Mount Vernon kids who may have gone on to be NMSF awardees have already been placed into private schools or were transferred to another FCPS school.
Perhaps it would be interesting to see NMSF data based on household address which would control for transfers. I suspect there would be slightly increased spread.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
++++++10000000
I agree. As a parent, I feel obliged to ensure my children get a solid education which just doesn't happen in public these days with the emphasis on equity. Teachers are solely focused on the many students who are struggling and below grade level. They feel gifted students will be fine and basically ignore them. That being said I also don't feel that people should be able to buy access to these programs because after all this is a public school system that should serve everyone.
In order to stop this damaging progressive ideology, we need to act together and vote off all these crazy liberals in the upcoming election.
That seems like a nonsequitur. The regressive bible thumpers are behind even more harmful policies so that would only make things worse.
Anonymous wrote:The Admissions Office was likely to release decisions within the next month before this ruling. Assuming the injunction stays the process for class of 2026, one wonders how the Admissions Office will proceed.
Shut it down and send everyone to their home base schools until the matter is fully litigated 10 years from now.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"
The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"
If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!
FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:
What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.
Congratulations to the semifinalists!
It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?
Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.
Why ain't no kids from schools like Mount Vernon High School?
I thought, according to progressive liberal logic, the top 1.5% of kids from every school are on the same level of academic aptitude.
The students at Mount Vernon, whose feeder school is Whitman Middle School, are much logically smarter than the incompetent FCPS Board. Despite the Board's pressure on Whitman MS students to send in TJ applications, the students dont trust the School Board or administration since they haven't addressed basic issues like attendance and teaching proper math, reading & science at their school. The School Board's refusal to address real issues at that school, and put undue pressure to apply at TJ are smartly refused by the students, as evidenced by the low turnout. However, despite the School Board's insistence on extending a few TJ offers through the 1.5% quota, the pragmatic Whitman MS students choose to decline these offers. It's not that Whitman MS students lack the potential for excelling in math, reading, and science; rather, the disingenuous School Board neglects to address the poor student performance in math, reading, and science at their school. They have not made any efforts to prepare their students adequately for the rigorous TJ curriculum or at the least to increase enrollment in honors classes.
Ill-prepared for high school, Whitman MS students move onto Mount Vernon HS. The School Board's failure to address the fundamental educational gap at Mount Vernon is evident in the absence of any meritorious awardees from the school.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"
The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"
If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!
FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:
What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.
Congratulations to the semifinalists!
It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?
Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.
Why ain't no kids from schools like Mount Vernon High School?
I thought, according to progressive liberal logic, the top 1.5% of kids from every school are on the same level of academic aptitude.
The students at Mount Vernon, whose feeder school is Whitman Middle School, are much logically smarter than the incompetent FCPS Board. Despite the Board's pressure on Whitman MS students to send in TJ applications, the students dont trust the School Board or administration since they haven't addressed basic issues like attendance and teaching proper math, reading & science at their school. The School Board's refusal to address real issues at that school, and put undue pressure to apply at TJ are smartly refused by the students, as evidenced by the low turnout. However, despite the School Board's insistence on extending a few TJ offers through the 1.5% quota, the pragmatic Whitman MS students choose to decline these offers. It's not that Whitman MS students lack the potential for excelling in math, reading, and science; rather, the disingenuous School Board neglects to address the poor student performance in math, reading, and science at their school. They have not made any efforts to prepare their students adequately for the rigorous TJ curriculum or at the least to increase enrollment in honors classes.
Ill-prepared for high school, Whitman MS students move onto Mount Vernon HS. The School Board's failure to address the fundamental educational gap at Mount Vernon is evident in the absence of any meritorious awardees from the school.
This is how you spend your evening being stuck inside because of Ophelia? Fascinating.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
++++++10000000
I agree. As a parent, I feel obliged to ensure my children get a solid education which just doesn't happen in public these days with the emphasis on equity. Teachers are solely focused on the many students who are struggling and below grade level. They feel gifted students will be fine and basically ignore them. That being said I also don't feel that people should be able to buy access to these programs because after all this is a public school system that should serve everyone.
In order to stop this damaging progressive ideology, we need to act together and vote off all these crazy liberals in the upcoming election.
That seems like a nonsequitur. The regressive bible thumpers are behind even more harmful policies so that would only make things worse.
How so? The conservative Supreme Court Judges did pretty well recently.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
++++++10000000
I agree. As a parent, I feel obliged to ensure my children get a solid education which just doesn't happen in public these days with the emphasis on equity. Teachers are solely focused on the many students who are struggling and below grade level. They feel gifted students will be fine and basically ignore them. That being said I also don't feel that people should be able to buy access to these programs because after all this is a public school system that should serve everyone.
In order to stop this damaging progressive ideology, we need to act together and vote off all these crazy liberals in the upcoming election.
That seems like a nonsequitur. The regressive bible thumpers are behind even more harmful policies so that would only make things worse.
How so? The conservative Supreme Court Judges did pretty well recently.
That's the only hope. Affirmative action was designed to support all minorities, but some sneaky folks at select universities decided to play the exclusion game with Asian Americans. The three-eyed raven, in all its wisdom, warned everyone not to mess with Asian Americans and their education. Did anyone listen? Nope! The Supreme Court finally had enough, got fed up that no one paid attention to the three-eyed raven, and decided to put Affirmative Action on the chopping block. Talk about messing with a mystical messenger! FAFO!
Anonymous wrote:The VA DOE Governor's school page specifically states that the mission is as follows: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers."
In light of this, FCPS needs to pick a lane. Either the kids who are very accelerated in math have learning levels remarkably different from their age level peers, and thus belong at TJ, or they don't have learning levels remarkably different from their peers, and thus can be accommodated by appropriately advanced courses offered in their base schools or in nearby academy programs.
FCPS can't have it both ways, where it decides that some kids aren't advanced enough to need TJ, but are too advanced to be accommodated otherwise.
Studies have shown that offering too many advanced courses at base school only furthers the achievement gap between slow and aspiring learners. The unintended consequence of implementing equitable education in public schools is access to advanced courses gets limited.
You are missing the point. TJ is for "students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers." Slow and aspiring learners should stay in their base schools and get more help to strengthen their foundation.
Dropping them in a STEM school that teaches more advanced courses is not helping at all.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.
What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.
That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.
It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.
If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.
1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.
2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.
(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)
3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.
But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.
Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass
I have no problem with more and more people going to Curie for whatever the hell they want to.
I only call out what happened with them to describe why it was so important for the admissions process to change. And it did
Changing to a process that is subjective, lacks transparency, prone to corruption will make the matter worse.
Nah. We've got three years worth of kids from the new process going to TJ now and the environment is much healthier. Fewer strivers who are taking classes way beyond their level of intellect and more kids with diverse goals and ambitions that aren't killing themselves for T20 acceptance. And the bet here is that more of them will get that T20 acceptance letter anyway.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
++++++10000000
I agree. As a parent, I feel obliged to ensure my children get a solid education which just doesn't happen in public these days with the emphasis on equity. Teachers are solely focused on the many students who are struggling and below grade level. They feel gifted students will be fine and basically ignore them. That being said I also don't feel that people should be able to buy access to these programs because after all this is a public school system that should serve everyone.
In order to stop this damaging progressive ideology, we need to act together and vote off all these crazy liberals in the upcoming election.
That seems like a nonsequitur. The regressive bible thumpers are behind even more harmful policies so that would only make things worse.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.
What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.
That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.
It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.
If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.
1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.
2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.
(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)
3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.
But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.
Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass
I have no problem with more and more people going to Curie for whatever the hell they want to.
I only call out what happened with them to describe why it was so important for the admissions process to change. And it did
Changing to a process that is subjective, lacks transparency, prone to corruption will make the matter worse.
Nah. We've got three years worth of kids from the new process going to TJ now and the environment is much healthier. Fewer strivers who are taking classes way beyond their level of intellect and more kids with diverse goals and ambitions that aren't killing themselves for T20 acceptance. And the bet here is that more of them will get that T20 acceptance letter anyway.
Would expect this to positively impact TJ's rankings in the next 1-2 years.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.
What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.
That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.
It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.
If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.
1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.
2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.
(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)
3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.
But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.
Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass
I have no problem with more and more people going to Curie for whatever the hell they want to.
I only call out what happened with them to describe why it was so important for the admissions process to change. And it did
Changing to a process that is subjective, lacks transparency, prone to corruption will make the matter worse.
Nah. We've got three years worth of kids from the new process going to TJ now and the environment is much healthier. Fewer strivers who are taking classes way beyond their level of intellect and more kids with diverse goals and ambitions that aren't killing themselves for T20 acceptance. And the bet here is that more of them will get that T20 acceptance letter anyway.
Would expect this to positively impact TJ's rankings in the next 1-2 years.
The culture of the school, yes; the academic prowess, hopefully not. A gifted magnet is not about being #1, it's about meeting the needs of the students. Right?
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.
The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.
Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.
What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.
That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.
It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.
If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.
1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.
2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.
(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)
3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.
But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.
Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass
I have no problem with more and more people going to Curie for whatever the hell they want to.
I only call out what happened with them to describe why it was so important for the admissions process to change. And it did
Changing to a process that is subjective, lacks transparency, prone to corruption will make the matter worse.
Nah. We've got three years worth of kids from the new process going to TJ now and the environment is much healthier. Fewer strivers who are taking classes way beyond their level of intellect and more kids with diverse goals and ambitions that aren't killing themselves for T20 acceptance. And the bet here is that more of them will get that T20 acceptance letter anyway.
Would expect this to positively impact TJ's rankings in the next 1-2 years.
The culture of the school, yes; the academic prowess, hopefully not. A gifted magnet is not about being #1, it's about meeting the needs of the students. Right?
I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive, but meeting the needs is obviously the far more important goal.
Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?
The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.
The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.
Makes you think.
That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.
They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.
They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.
It is not exclusive.
It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.
That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.
If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.
No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.
More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.
Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.
So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?
Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.
In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.
If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.
In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.
What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?
Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthyIndian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission
Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.
What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.
It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.
++++++10000000
I agree. As a parent, I feel obliged to ensure my children get a solid education which just doesn't happen in public these days with the emphasis on equity. Teachers are solely focused on the many students who are struggling and below grade level. They feel gifted students will be fine and basically ignore them. That being said I also don't feel that people should be able to buy access to these programs because after all this is a public school system that should serve everyone.
In order to stop this damaging progressive ideology, we need to act together and vote off all these crazy liberals in the upcoming election.
That seems like a nonsequitur. The regressive bible thumpers are behind even more harmful policies so that would only make things worse.
How so? The conservative Supreme Court Judges did pretty well recently.
That's the only hope. Affirmative action was designed to support all minorities, but some sneaky folks at select universities decided to play the exclusion game with Asian Americans. The three-eyed raven, in all its wisdom, warned everyone not to mess with Asian Americans and their education. Did anyone listen? Nope! The Supreme Court finally had enough, got fed up that no one paid attention to the three-eyed raven, and decided to put Affirmative Action on the chopping block. Talk about messing with a mystical messenger! FAFO!
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