Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.

2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.

(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)

3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.

But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.

Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement it to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"

The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"

If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!

FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.

Congratulations to the semifinalists!

It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?

Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"

The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"

If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!

FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.

Congratulations to the semifinalists!

It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?

Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.

Lol. I know you're being facetious, but when FCPS does make efforts to support kids from the other schools your kind comes out and criticizes them all the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

I think we're getting off track. The question isn't really "Should Curie provide a service to a specific community?"

The question is "Should TJ, a public educational institution, situate itself so that it serves predominantly those who can afford a service such as the one Curie provides?"

If students of any background want to spend their time memorizing tests, that's their right and Curie can continue to provide that service. But TJ doesn't have to reward that particular hobby in its admissions process.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about Indian community and their preference to enroll in Curie. Interesting!

FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on rewarding and recognizing hard working Asian American students. Just go through the names of students across all schools, not just TJ, in this list, one can see the extent to which FCPS values listing asian american student names as a measure of success:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

What's ironic is the same FCPS is filled with a racist board that has openly attempted to "limit the number of asian american students" from pursuing their stem interests.

Congratulations to the semifinalists!

It appears all awardees came from just 15 of the 30 high schools in FCPS. What about the other 15 schools? Is there not a single semifinalist from those schools? Not one?

Perhaps the FCPS Board would better serve its constituents by focusing on supporting students from those 15 schools, rather than maintaining racist obsession of Asian American student strength at one school, TJ.

There are 25 full-service high schools in FCPS, not 30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is test prep center in South Riding that accounted for 25% of the class one year at TH. They published lists of names on their website, demonstrating how many kids they had gotten in during the last three years. Kids on TJ Vents were claiming that they’d memorized the test one year, so the next year’s class would have the exact test. It would all be hearsay if Curie itself hadn’t published those lists of names.

The total number was actually 28%.

Additionally - and this is wild - there are approximately 185 students of South Asian descent in TJ's Class of 2024. 133 of them were identified by Curie on these lists, meaning that over 70% of South Asian students in TJ's Class of 2024 were Curie products.

Congratulations to the diligent Asian American students, who draw inspiration from accomplished leaders such as Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), Jen-Hsun Huang (NVIDIA), Jerry Yang (Yahoo!), Sanjay Mehrotra (Micron Technology), Lisa Su (AMD), and more

add to that list: Eric Yuan (Zoom), Min Zhu, (Cisco WebEx), Tony Xu (DoorDash), Albert Cheng (Amazon Studios), Bobby Murphy (SnapChat), Steve Chen (YouTube), and more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

Curie may not be the right fit for every child. If your child is spending 3 hours on an assignment meant to take 30 minutes, it should be a signal to consider withdrawing them from the program to avoid unnecessary stress. Like many programs, including Kumon and AoPS, Curie has dropouts because not every child or parent can support the pace, rigor, or commitment it requires. Curie's program is demanding, and it's common for 10% to 20% of students to quit every semester.

In my own experience, one of my two children who started at Curie dropped out after a semester, while the other completed the full two years. The initial placement test should offer an indication of where a child stands and their ability to handle the program. Even if one disregards the placement feedback, monthly evaluation checkpoints provide insights into whether the child can continue with the rigor without becoming overwhelmed.

Curie, like any business, might exaggerate its claims, and some parents may take a hands-off approach by outsourcing their child's enrichment to Curie. However, the truth is that only about 25% of those who enroll there truly demonstrate the resilience and intellectual capacity to master content that is two to three grade levels above their current age.

In a way, if a child successfully completes the entire Curie program and emerges in the top quartile of the class, they are essentially entering their base high school, academies, or TJ, in the highest tier of students. Curie's rigorous program serves as a more stringent filter than what you might typically expect from the admissions criteria at one of these programs.

[Anonymous]

This case was laughed out of court years ago. Nobody credible buys this fake discrimination nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

Curie may not be the right fit for every child. If your child is spending 3 hours on an assignment meant to take 30 minutes, it should be a signal to consider withdrawing them from the program to avoid unnecessary stress. Like many programs, including Kumon and AoPS, Curie has dropouts because not every child or parent can support the pace, rigor, or commitment it requires. Curie's program is demanding, and it's common for 10% to 20% of students to quit every semester.

In my own experience, one of my two children who started at Curie dropped out after a semester, while the other completed the full two years. The initial placement test should offer an indication of where a child stands and their ability to handle the program. Even if one disregards the placement feedback, monthly evaluation checkpoints provide insights into whether the child can continue with the rigor without becoming overwhelmed.

Curie, like any business, might exaggerate its claims, and some parents may take a hands-off approach by outsourcing their child's enrichment to Curie. However, the truth is that only about 25% of those who enroll there truly demonstrate the resilience and intellectual capacity to master content that is two to three grade levels above their current age.

In a way, if a child successfully completes the entire Curie program and emerges in the top quartile of the class, they are essentially entering their base high school, academies, or TJ, in the highest tier of students. Curie's rigorous program serves as a more stringent filter than what you might typically expect from the admissions criteria at one of these programs.

With schools focused on equity and equal outcomes, the only way a smart child can learn is by their parents signing them up for outside enrichment. Any child who is remotely above grade level gets ignored at school. This is a fact of our times so programs like Cuire are a necessary evil to compensate for what the school system refuses to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

Curie may not be the right fit for every child. If your child is spending 3 hours on an assignment meant to take 30 minutes, it should be a signal to consider withdrawing them from the program to avoid unnecessary stress. Like many programs, including Kumon and AoPS, Curie has dropouts because not every child or parent can support the pace, rigor, or commitment it requires. Curie's program is demanding, and it's common for 10% to 20% of students to quit every semester.

In my own experience, one of my two children who started at Curie dropped out after a semester, while the other completed the full two years. The initial placement test should offer an indication of where a child stands and their ability to handle the program. Even if one disregards the placement feedback, monthly evaluation checkpoints provide insights into whether the child can continue with the rigor without becoming overwhelmed.

Curie, like any business, might exaggerate its claims, and some parents may take a hands-off approach by outsourcing their child's enrichment to Curie. However, the truth is that only about 25% of those who enroll there truly demonstrate the resilience and intellectual capacity to master content that is two to three grade levels above their current age.

In a way, if a child successfully completes the entire Curie program and emerges in the top quartile of the class, they are essentially entering their base high school, academies, or TJ, in the highest tier of students. Curie's rigorous program serves as a more stringent filter than what you might typically expect from the admissions criteria at one of these programs.

With schools focused on equity and equal outcomes, the only way a smart child can learn is by their parents signing them up for outside enrichment. Any child who is remotely above grade level gets ignored at school. This is a fact of our times so programs like Cuire are a necessary evil to compensate for what the school system refuses to do.

DP. Ftr, this is inaccurate. If it's your experience, go ahead and say so, but it is not our experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

It appears you are leading a miserable life. You don't sound excited about your Indian identity or protests you attended. Your friends kids went through negative learning, you have weird inclination to spend 10 minutes with unfamiliar kids and judge them, and you are ashamed of your learning in India. You hold ill feelings towards an entire community of Indians in Ashburn. With all the crap going on in your self-loathing life, you want to advise families.

You have serious mental issues. Get help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

It appears you are leading a miserable life. You don't sound excited about your Indian identity or protests you attended. Your friends kids went through negative learning, you have weird inclination to spend 10 minutes with unfamiliar kids and judge them, and you are ashamed of your learning in India. You hold ill feelings towards an entire community of Indians in Ashburn. With all the crap going on in your self-loathing life, you want to advise families.

You have serious mental issues. Get help!

Or they're spot-on and you're butthurt that you got called out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

It appears you are leading a miserable life. You don't sound excited about your Indian identity or protests you attended. Your friends kids went through negative learning, you have weird inclination to spend 10 minutes with unfamiliar kids and judge them, and you are ashamed of your learning in India. You hold ill feelings towards an entire community of Indians in Ashburn. With all the crap going on in your self-loathing life, you want to advise families.

You have serious mental issues. Get help!

Or they're spot-on and you're butthurt that you got called out.

BINGO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

I am an Indian. I participated in protests against the admissions changes.

Those who were tutored at Curie were good at reciting back answers to questions they learned. This kind of learning actually short circuits the learning process. The kids do not get a chance to be mystified and think deeply about a topic. I saw many of my friends kids who were very bright and inquisitive, go through Curie and how it negatively impacted their learning.

This kind of tutoring is very inefficient. There are better ways to supplement. There is a method to learning.

If I spend 10 minutes with a kid and based on how they respond to say a few generic math questions, it would be easy to tell if they attended Curie. I know this is how we learn in India. I learned the same way.

A curie kid would end up spending 3 hours on an assignment that would be done in less than an hour by someone who actually learned the topic the right way.

Indians in Ashburn have a serious case of FOMO and rush their kids to Curie. Dont be that family.

Curie may not be the right fit for every child. If your child is spending 3 hours on an assignment meant to take 30 minutes, it should be a signal to consider withdrawing them from the program to avoid unnecessary stress. Like many programs, including Kumon and AoPS, Curie has dropouts because not every child or parent can support the pace, rigor, or commitment it requires. Curie's program is demanding, and it's common for 10% to 20% of students to quit every semester.

In my own experience, one of my two children who started at Curie dropped out after a semester, while the other completed the full two years. The initial placement test should offer an indication of where a child stands and their ability to handle the program. Even if one disregards the placement feedback, monthly evaluation checkpoints provide insights into whether the child can continue with the rigor without becoming overwhelmed.

Curie, like any business, might exaggerate its claims, and some parents may take a hands-off approach by outsourcing their child's enrichment to Curie. However, the truth is that only about 25% of those who enroll there truly demonstrate the resilience and intellectual capacity to master content that is two to three grade levels above their current age.

In a way, if a child successfully completes the entire Curie program and emerges in the top quartile of the class, they are essentially entering their base high school, academies, or TJ, in the highest tier of students. Curie's rigorous program serves as a more stringent filter than what you might typically expect from the admissions criteria at one of these programs.

With schools focused on equity and equal outcomes, the only way a smart child can learn is by their parents signing them up for outside enrichment. Any child who is remotely above grade level gets ignored at school. This is a fact of our times so programs like Cuire are a necessary evil to compensate for what the school system refuses to do.

DP. Ftr, this is inaccurate. If it's your experience, go ahead and say so, but it is not our experience.

It sounds completely accurate. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel this way.

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Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy Indian families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Fixed it for you. Curie is virtually 100% Indian, but not all of the families availing themselves of their services are wealthy.

What's the point here? Beyond Hoops basketball academy is all Black. Wolfe Ice Hockey is all White. If Indians choose to spend their bottom dollars at Curie, it's their choice.

It appears that you may have had prior experiences or concerns related to Curie and the Indian community, leading you to harbor grudge towards Asian Indians. Consider seeking advice from a mental health professional. Racism can be cured, at the least addressing the root cause of your hate can help promote understanding and overcome any biases and prejudices. Get help.

Amusing. I'd invite you and your people to do the same regarding Black folks. And I'm guessing that the examples that you gave are probably false.

The challenge that I have is not that Indians spend their money at Curie, but that it appears that no one else does. And when you combine that with the ethically (but not legally) questionable actions that Curie took with respect to the TJ admissions process, it's not too difficult to construct a narrative where its purpose is only to serve the Indian community.

Curie, AoPs, Kumon, and others are following the path similar to what Barrons, Princeton Review, Kaplan, McGraw Hill, and others have been doing by publishing review materials and practice tests for AP Exams. This study material is accessible to all, whether through standard textbooks or these more organized preparation materials. It is ethical to prepare from subject books that are widely accessible. It is called studying. The key distinguishing factor lies in the student's commitment to the effort required and the support provided by their family.

What distinguished Curie's actions from those of the other companies you're describing is that they prepared materials for the Quant-Q exam, which TJ Admissions selected in large part because it was meant to be secured. Everyone who sees that exam signs a statement affirming that they will not share anything regarding its contents to anyone, but at least one kid who took the exam broke that statement and revealed the contents of the exam they took to the folks at Curie.

That's how students who took future iterations of the exam reported that they had seen the exact versions of some longform word problems in their Curie classes before taking the exam suite for admissions to the classes of 2023 and 2024 - because, as with most exam companies, different forms of the Quant-Q will reuse questions from other forms used previously. So while the Curie kids didn't see the WHOLE exam, they had seen a few of the questions and, more importantly, had been taught strategies for how to solve problems on an exam whose entire purpose is to test your ability to solve problems or types you've never seen before.

It is common for students to engage in discussions about the difficulty of exams, their content, and even share questions they remember. If companies like Barrons, Princeton Review, or Curie utilize this feedback to enhance and refine their study materials, it only serves to make those materials more relevant for exam preparation. In fact, the College Board annually releases past free response questions for every subject, which all study preparation and tutoring companies use to improve their materials. However, despite access to these past year questions, some students excel while a significant others struggle to score the bare minimum. The key differentiators are a student's commitment and the support they receive from their family.

If a company like Barrons produces AP exam prep materials that don't contribute to a student's success, why would anyone choose their materials? The same principle applies to Curie; they likely aim for their preparation materials to surpass the rigor of the TJ curriculum or any advanced FCPS curriculum. It's not surprising that the top quarter of the TJ class is better prepared to handle TJ curriculum demands, and it wouldn't be a surprise if Curie students comprise a significant portion of that segment.

1) The students signed an agreement not to discuss the exam and its contents. It doesn’t matter how common doing so may or may not be - the moment they do it they’re in violation of the agreement that they signed and they’re creating imbalances in the admissions process. And likely doing so intentionally.

2) A lot of people want to paint a picture of the studious child alone in their room poring over exam prep materials to get themselves ready for AP exams or SAT/ACT. While this is undoubtedly true of a small number of students, it’s far, FAR more common in this area for students to be involved in expensive prep classes for these very same exams. This creates imbalances in admissions processes based not around student effort or ability but around parental resources and motivation.

(White students are the biggest beneficiaries of this, btw, and would be much more successful in TJ admissions if their parents wanted to send them to TJ.)

3) Why do we just accept that differences in parental resources and motivation should account for differences in admissions outcomes? My guess is because it makes you feel better about yourself to take credit for your kid’s wins. And perhaps more importantly, because it allows you to feel superior to others.

But isn’t it a million times more impressive for a kid to accomplish, say, 80-90 percent of what your kid did with limited parental support? If I had to bet on that other kid or your kid for who is going to contribute more to society, I’d bet on the other kid and if you have any brains at all, so would you.

Each time this fool mentions Curie, that free advertisement to a dozen more prospective parents. Either a paid social media backhanded promoter or a complete dumbass