S/O What is our obligation as parents regarding college $$$?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to admit I am kind of appalled by this - really you wouldn’t feel obligated to fund a top private? I am Asian and it is basically written into my dna that if I can afford it (and even if I can’t I would try) that I will pay for my kids’ college tuition.I kid, but It was never a question for me growing up that as long as it was a “good” school my parents would pay. That comes with all the stereotypical strings you can imagine.

My parents paid for grad school as well. I had the option of a top 30 program full ride scholarship vs a top 15 program with no scholarship. I didn’t want to take out debt but was perfectly willing to go to the lower ranked school - my parents paid for the higher ranked school. I didn’t realize how much of a leg up that gave me back then but I surely appreciate that now. Having school fully paid for did not make me a bum, as I hear people cite as a reason they think having debt is good.

Our HHI is well over 550k and we’ll absolutely pay for undergrad and grad school, within reason. Why wouldn’t I? My kids are very little now but I can’t imagine telling them to go to their second choice school or take out a crap ton of crippling debt when I can perfectly well afford it. If I couldn’t afford, it would be a different story - no one should bankrupt their retirement to pay for college - but you clearly can. Maybe this is a theoretical thought exercise for you and you’ll change your mind when / if it is a reality

I am very curious what you are doing now that you wouldn't have done if you went to a top 30 school vs. top 15. I am actually quite appalled that you would have asked your parents to pay for grad school when you had a perfectly find option for free. Assuming your parents aren't multi-millionaires, forcing them to work harder and longer to go to a school that most likely will not make any significant difference in your future is incredibly selfish.

NP. I can tell you that the law field is very elitist and you absolutely have different career opportunities coming out of school and for the rest of your career if you went to a top 30 versus the top 15.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I will pay for a true top private, but I’m not paying for a mediocre SLAC just because my kid doesn’t want to go to a state school, which are high quality.

[Anonymous]

Nice.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused by your "Nice" comment, as I too agree with the poster above you

[Anonymous]

We are immigrants who came into high-paying careers late in life, and so we prioritize saving for retirement because you can't borrow for that. We start college funds for our three kids once they enter public schools (when daycare/nanny bills go away). I also have a rental property that I plan to sell when they go to college. If everything goes according to plan, they should each have about 160K for their education, and that will have to be enough. If that doesn't cover the school/grad school of their choice, oh well, deep sign.

[Anonymous]

We just sent our oldest of 3 off to college last year. Our salary was between $100K and $180K the whole time (one full-time salary and a sometime part-time salary, so no daycare). Our goal was to save enough to pay for in-state tuition and room and board for each child for 4 years. Our parents did it for us and we wanted to do the same. It gave me (and spouse) a great start in life and has made a huge difference in our ability to save for a home/retirement/our children's college funds, etc. so we wouldn't consider making them pay for their own college.

A few things I have learned after having just gone through the college process:

1. Students, for the most part, can only take out $27K in student loans over 4 years (they are federal loans). They can take out private loans but would need a co-signer - usually parents -which means parents are ultimately responsible for paying back if kid does not. There are limited exceptions to this. So for any parents not planning to pay, you need other options like community college, lots of APs, dual-enrollment, scholarships, kids with really good savings/part-time jobs, etc.

2. For the most part, hard-working, studious high school students do not suddenly become slackers in college because their parents are paying for it. Most high schoolers have no "skin in the game" and perform at whatever level they perform. You could assume the same level of performance in college. If a studious high-schooler suddenly becomes a partier in college, you could always threaten cutting off funds at that point. But why assume if they have no skin in the game, they won't work hard in college? Did your kid ever give you reason to believe that is the type of person they are? Trust your kid. Show them you believe in them.

3. If you have a set amount of funds for college, TELL YOUR KID THE AMOUNT you are willing to pay. Avoid your kid having a "dream school" scenario. Unless your kid is the next Marie Currie or Albert Einstein, and even then, you should be able to find a school in your budget that will meet your kids' needs. We set that budget at $40K per year. Our son was allowed to go to any school that met that criteria. We allowed him to apply to more expensive schools with the understanding that he wouldn't attend unless merit aid would bring the total cost of attendance down to $40K per year. He applied to both in-state and out-of-state (OOS) public and private schools. He ended up at an OOS public at a school tops in his major.

4. Where you go to college does not define you. It is a means to an end with the end goal being a happy, successful adult life. There are many paths to getting there. You can be a superstar at a lesser-known, less competitive college or one of many brilliant students at a well-known, competitive college. You can become a success from either of those options or anywhere in between. What you do at college will have a greater impact than where you go. A big college name will open some doors but your confidence, work ethic, and grit will make a greater difference in your success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to push back on the ideas that someone with a HHI of $450K is unreasonable to take cost into account.

We have a HHI of about 400K. We have been saving for our children's college since they were quite young. Our income has gone up gradually over time, we are double feds.

We should be able to pay for private (and will at a minimum pay for OOS because we live in DC). But it is by no means no big deal to prepare to spend roughly 600K over 7-8 years (there may be a gap year in there) and we have had a good income for a long time.

We have prioritized living close to where we work in a good school district so our kids can go to public school and we can spend more time with them. Yes, our house was expensive but it is not a crazy mansion. We renovated it when we got through the daycare years, that turned into a higher mortgage, but the renovation was a huge improvement to our day to day living. We are feds but we both have fairly senior level, high stress jobs and we prioritize things that make our lives easier for our sanity and a calm home for our kids.

We prioritize experiences that we think are important for our family including our children. Things such as sleep away camp, travel sports, subscription ticket, etc. can add up very quickly. We think travel is an important life experience. We are saving for retirement.

That is to say we do not spend money on designer bags and a beach house. We make choices and we feel lucky to be in a position to do so. We will likely have about 200K saved for each child by the time they reach college and will be in a position to cashflow the rest if the college choice is worth it given a variety of factors (e.g., we would have paid for University of Chicago in the example given above if that were our child). We would not, however, been a position to pay for private college in full out of pocket if we were not in a position to be saving substantially for many years leading up to college.

You seem to not want to explicitly say that your value a good life for yourself now and are willing to sacrifice more choice for your children later.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with that - it’s your money, but your whole post is really defensive. How could you not live on $400K per year, which is about $260k after taxes, leaving $180K after paying $80k out of pocket? That’s $15K a month, which is a lot.

Op makes even more, which makes the decision really odd to me - if you don’t value more expensive colleges, that’s one thing, but you can absolutely afford to pay for them AND still live very nicely on that income.

This was my parents -- valued the good life for themselves and screwed all 4 of their kids by strapping us down with student loans that they said they'd help us pay back "later" -- and then didn't. I'm 42 and still paying back undergrad loans and I resent the hell out of my parents for it. I will not do that to my children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to admit I am kind of appalled by this - really you wouldn’t feel obligated to fund a top private? I am Asian and it is basically written into my dna that if I can afford it (and even if I can’t I would try) that I will pay for my kids’ college tuition.I kid, but It was never a question for me growing up that as long as it was a “good” school my parents would pay. That comes with all the stereotypical strings you can imagine.

My parents paid for grad school as well. I had the option of a top 30 program full ride scholarship vs a top 15 program with no scholarship. I didn’t want to take out debt but was perfectly willing to go to the lower ranked school - my parents paid for the higher ranked school. I didn’t realize how much of a leg up that gave me back then but I surely appreciate that now. Having school fully paid for did not make me a bum, as I hear people cite as a reason they think having debt is good.

Our HHI is well over 550k and we’ll absolutely pay for undergrad and grad school, within reason. Why wouldn’t I? My kids are very little now but I can’t imagine telling them to go to their second choice school or take out a crap ton of crippling debt when I can perfectly well afford it. If I couldn’t afford, it would be a different story - no one should bankrupt their retirement to pay for college - but you clearly can. Maybe this is a theoretical thought exercise for you and you’ll change your mind when / if it is a reality

I am very curious what you are doing now that you wouldn't have done if you went to a top 30 school vs. top 15. I am actually quite appalled that you would have asked your parents to pay for grad school when you had a perfectly find option for free. Assuming your parents aren't multi-millionaires, forcing them to work harder and longer to go to a school that most likely will not make any significant difference in your future is incredibly selfish.

NP. I can tell you that the law field is very elitist and you absolutely have different career opportunities coming out of school and for the rest of your career if you went to a top 30 versus the top 15.

Assuming that's true (and Amy Coney Barrett is Exhibit A for why it is not), do people stop to consider whether they *want* those career opportunities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just sent our oldest of 3 off to college last year. Our salary was between $100K and $180K the whole time (one full-time salary and a sometime part-time salary, so no daycare). Our goal was to save enough to pay for in-state tuition and room and board for each child for 4 years. Our parents did it for us and we wanted to do the same. It gave me (and spouse) a great start in life and has made a huge difference in our ability to save for a home/retirement/our children's college funds, etc. so we wouldn't consider making them pay for their own college.

A few things I have learned after having just gone through the college process:

1. Students, for the most part, can only take out $27K in student loans over 4 years (they are federal loans). They can take out private loans but would need a co-signer - usually parents -which means parents are ultimately responsible for paying back if kid does not. There are limited exceptions to this. So for any parents not planning to pay, you need other options like community college, lots of APs, dual-enrollment, scholarships, kids with really good savings/part-time jobs, etc.

2. For the most part, hard-working, studious high school students do not suddenly become slackers in college because their parents are paying for it. Most high schoolers have no "skin in the game" and perform at whatever level they perform. You could assume the same level of performance in college. If a studious high-schooler suddenly becomes a partier in college, you could always threaten cutting off funds at that point. But why assume if they have no skin in the game, they won't work hard in college? Did your kid ever give you reason to believe that is the type of person they are? Trust your kid. Show them you believe in them.

3. If you have a set amount of funds for college, TELL YOUR KID THE AMOUNT you are willing to pay. Avoid your kid having a "dream school" scenario. Unless your kid is the next Marie Currie or Albert Einstein, and even then, you should be able to find a school in your budget that will meet your kids' needs. We set that budget at $40K per year. Our son was allowed to go to any school that met that criteria. We allowed him to apply to more expensive schools with the understanding that he wouldn't attend unless merit aid would bring the total cost of attendance down to $40K per year. He applied to both in-state and out-of-state (OOS) public and private schools. He ended up at an OOS public at a school tops in his major.

4. Where you go to college does not define you. It is a means to an end with the end goal being a happy, successful adult life. There are many paths to getting there. You can be a superstar at a lesser-known, less competitive college or one of many brilliant students at a well-known, competitive college. You can become a success from either of those options or anywhere in between. What you do at college will have a greater impact than where you go. A big college name will open some doors but your confidence, work ethic, and grit will make a greater difference in your success.

This this this. My parents were not upfront with what they were going to contribute and I didn't ask enough questions. They down right encouraged me to apply to all of these schools we couldn't afford because they thought I'd get a full ride or something. I did get some scholarships and need based aid but ended up with a lot of loans too (federal and private). I think it's so important to be honest with your kids and set reasonable expectations. I wish my parents had not suggested and agreed to co-sign private loans- if I had just had federal it would have been more manageable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We make 130 HHI and have three kids (admittedly, HHI was over 200k for some years before I became a SAHM). We’ve prepaid state (VA) schools for two and put in 80k so far for one. My goal is to pay all of college and grad school for all three.

For us, providing good education is like putting healthy food on the table.

+1000, I don't need a big fancy house, cars or vacations but my kids need college and graduate school with as little to no debt to give them a good start to life.

And they need to choose a useful major or it does not matter what you spend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 450K, you will be expected to be full pay no matter where your child attends. You don’t determine your obligation. A combination of the federal government and college financial aid offices do. You can pay with cash, savings, or private loans, but you will be expected to pay. No emotions accepted.

Um, I absolutely get to determine how to spend my money. Sorry if the word "obligation" threw you off. We all place value on different things and to different degrees. Some parents do not feel obligated to pay for a secondary education...and they don't. Some parents feel like their greatest obligation as a parent is to provide the "best" education their child can get up to and including graduate school. And presumably many degrees in between (community college, in state, not room and board, not a liberal arts school, etc. etc.) I'm asking what this board thinks about that.

I think its sad at your income and your lifestyle, that this is even a question. We have 1/3 your income and will pay for a state school and graduate school, more if we can. If we had your income we'd fully pay for any school and the only catch is they need a major that will leave to a job, not a fun major. At a minimum we will pay tuition, room and board. I hope we can do a private if that's where they want to go but I see mine happy at our state school. Best is subjective as best isn't necessarily a private school. I went to both for college and much happier at the public school. But, at that income level why would you pay for a 4 year school and 2-3 years of graduate school. Is your million+ dollar house, fancy cars and vacations more important than making sure your kids get a good start to life?

I totally agree with you. I am on an installment prepaid plan for Virginia tuition. I hope to help to co tribute to room and board but I’ll expect my so. Go work and contribute, too. I went to an expensive private school (almost all on merit aid but some loans that I paid off) and I think any VA state college would be just as good, esp if he can get into top tier ones.

I am setting him up in life by traveling a lot now and having a lot of experiences now while I am young enough to be fully part of his life. I’m instilling in him, I hope, a strong work ethic and social conscience. I encourage his interests and a concern for social justice.

When he is older, part of setting him up for a good life is doing my best to cover my own elder care, if possible. That is more important to his life than the difference between a tony private school and a public college.

So I'll cut through the attacks on me here, and focus on something you wrote that I think is interesting. I think there are valid differences of opinion on what count as "a good start in life." I absolutely think education is important. But "what success looks like" for my kids from my perspective is not tied to earning potential (beyond a certain floor, of course) or social stature. I believe that a stable home, an upbringing with lots of enriching experiences and a good dose of learning independence and responsibility, and four years of paid education at a really good state school is a good start in life.

[Anonymous]

My spouse and I personally feel that we should fund undergrad degrees (which was done for the both of us), but they are on their own after that. We may not be able to fund totally out of pocket, but would probably take over loan payments afterward.

[Anonymous]

None.

[Anonymous]

You sound cheap, OP.

You have plenty to pay out of pocket as they go along in college. If you don’t, then you are overspending somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 450K, you will be expected to be full pay no matter where your child attends. You don’t determine your obligation. A combination of the federal government and college financial aid offices do. You can pay with cash, savings, or private loans, but you will be expected to pay. No emotions accepted.

Um, I absolutely get to determine how to spend my money. Sorry if the word "obligation" threw you off. We all place value on different things and to different degrees. Some parents do not feel obligated to pay for a secondary education...and they don't. Some parents feel like their greatest obligation as a parent is to provide the "best" education their child can get up to and including graduate school. And presumably many degrees in between (community college, in state, not room and board, not a liberal arts school, etc. etc.) I'm asking what this board thinks about that.

You misunderstood my post. Your child will not receive federal aid or loans. You will be expected to pay unless you financially emancipate her. As in no more claiming her as a dependent on your taxes.

Not my opinion- those are the rules.

I get that. I really do. What I am saying is that I get to choose how much I will pay toward a college education. That could mean certain schools are off the table for my children. It could mean a lot of loans my children have to carry. But it is still a choice. I'm trying to get at how people view that choice.

I think it's effed up that YOU choose for your child to take great schools off the table on behalf of your child because YOU choose not to pay. Your kid has no agency here because they can't even choose debt.

+1

You sound a bit controlling, OP.

The kid is becoming an adult. A collaborative approach would probably be appreciated by them.