what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is a exactly the idea that everyone else sits in traffic. That’s the whole point of HOT lanes. They establish a market price on lost time due to traffic.

This is a stupid game. No toll and you cry “induced demand”. Toll and you cry “not fair”. And then in another breath complain that roads are subsidized and people are not paying the full cost.

Those are just statements of fact.

-If there are no tolls, then there will be induced demand.

-If there are tolls, then the people who don't pay the tolls will sit in the same traffic (or maybe worse traffic) than before.

-The roads are subsidized, and drivers are not paying the full costs of driving.

It's up to you to decide how you want those facts to affect your opinions.

If Hogan were proposing to toll existing lanes, and Hogan were not proposing to do everything at supposedly $0 taxpayer expense because a for-profit company is going to do it all, then we could have a discussion about putting a market price on driving. Neither is true, however. Hogan is promising a free lunch for everyone, and you know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Absolute clown shoes. I have an idea, whatever pitfall amount of money you make is not fair because someone makes less. So you won’t be allowed to make more than the lowest paid person. Fair enough now?

Clearly you are a proto-Trotskyite. Which makes a lot of sense.

Dude. I haven't said anything about fairness. Do you think the people who say they support the project, would still support it if they found out that the only way they will be able to avoid sitting in traffic is if they pay high tolls? Notice how Hogan hasn't sold the project as congestion relief only for people who are willing and able to pay high tolls? Have you asked yourself why he hasn't done that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is a exactly the idea that everyone else sits in traffic. That’s the whole point of HOT lanes. They establish a market price on lost time due to traffic.

This is a stupid game. No toll and you cry “induced demand”. Toll and you cry “not fair”. And then in another breath complain that roads are subsidized and people are not paying the full cost.

Those are just statements of fact.

-If there are no tolls, then there will be induced demand.

-If there are tolls, then the people who don't pay the tolls will sit in the same traffic (or maybe worse traffic) than before.

-The roads are subsidized, and drivers are not paying the full costs of driving.

It's up to you to decide how you want those facts to affect your opinions.

If Hogan were proposing to toll existing lanes, and Hogan were not proposing to do everything at supposedly $0 taxpayer expense because a for-profit company is going to do it all, then we could have a discussion about putting a market price on driving. Neither is true, however. Hogan is promising a free lunch for everyone, and you know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Absolute clown shoes. I have an idea, whatever pitfall amount of money you make is not fair because someone makes less. So you won’t be allowed to make more than the lowest paid person. Fair enough now?

Clearly you are a proto-Trotskyite. Which makes a lot of sense.

Dude. I haven't said anything about fairness. Do you think the people who say they support the project, would still support it if they found out that the only way they will be able to avoid sitting in traffic is if they pay high tolls? Notice how Hogan hasn't sold the project as congestion relief only for people who are willing and able to pay high tolls? Have you asked yourself why he hasn't done that?

Pathetic. Both above and below.

Yes, and everybody else is going to be sitting in the same traffic they were sitting in before, watching affluent people pay their way into faster car trips. It's odd how the Hogan administration isn't making that clear to Maryland residents, don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same story as usual, take a lot of poor minorities' land to expand for shitty highways. Good thing it has been pared back....for now.

Funny how we can't get public transportation because rich assholes in Bethesda and Chevy Chase though are angry that the purple line might cause a little bit of inconvenience. Build over where those poor minorities live though? No problem!

God America sucks. All anyone can ever think about is stupid car centric transportation We should be trying to develop like an actual 1st world country like Japan, Germany, China, Singapore, or South Korea.

WTH are you talking about? The PL was halted because contractors left the job. It's not the fault of anybody living in Bethesda or Chevy Chase. Sorry to interrupt your rant with facts.

Purple Line would have been finished 15 years ago if it hadn't been for NIMBYs. The people who forced frivolous environmental lawsuits should pay for the delays.

Gov. Hogan didn't help either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same story as usual, take a lot of poor minorities' land to expand for shitty highways. Good thing it has been pared back....for now.

Funny how we can't get public transportation because rich assholes in Bethesda and Chevy Chase though are angry that the purple line might cause a little bit of inconvenience. Build over where those poor minorities live though? No problem!

God America sucks. All anyone can ever think about is stupid car centric transportation We should be trying to develop like an actual 1st world country like Japan, Germany, China, Singapore, or South Korea.

WTH are you talking about? The PL was halted because contractors left the job. It's not the fault of anybody living in Bethesda or Chevy Chase. Sorry to interrupt your rant with facts.

Sorry you are too dumb to keep up with the news for exactly WHY the contractors left. Keep up before spewing garbage on the keyboard. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same story as usual, take a lot of poor minorities' land to expand for shitty highways. Good thing it has been pared back....for now.

Funny how we can't get public transportation because rich assholes in Bethesda and Chevy Chase though are angry that the purple line might cause a little bit of inconvenience. Build over where those poor minorities live though? No problem!

God America sucks. All anyone can ever think about is stupid car centric transportation We should be trying to develop like an actual 1st world country like Japan, Germany, China, Singapore, or South Korea.

WTH are you talking about? The PL was halted because contractors left the job. It's not the fault of anybody living in Bethesda or Chevy Chase. Sorry to interrupt your rant with facts.

Sorry you are too dumb to keep up with the news for exactly WHY the contractors left. Keep up before spewing garbage on the keyboard. Good grief.

The contractors quit because they looked at the economics of the project and realized that there would not be enough ridership to make it profitable.

This is my favorite GGW bit.

They demagogues Vince Gray for not supporting the streetcar. The streetcar gets built and it’s a disaster and they just don’t talk about it anymore or when they do it’s the city’s fault for “poor implementation”. “Clearly it needed dedicated lanes” they say now, which they didn’t say before.

Demagogue people that don’t support the Purple Line as racist. The Purple Line is an epic disaster and they now don’t talk about it or blame the people that had opposed it because they knew it would be a disaster in the first place. Note that the most significant opposition was about the PPP structure that GGW loved. The contractors used favorable clauses to walk away because they realized that there would not be enough ridership to make it profitable for them.

It’s like the communists, perfect communism has never been tried they always say.

Meantime GGW never examines WHY the things they advocate and the outcomes they predict never work out.

[Anonymous]

People have always said that the DC streetcar needs dedicated lanes. And that the Purple Line needs dedicated lanes. Unlike the DC streetcar, the Purple Line actually will have dedicated lanes, most importantly between Bethesda and downtown Silver Spring.

The P3 for the Purple Line was necessary because the state of Maryland borrowed all the way up to the debt limit for the ICC.

The Purple Line construction contractors walked off because of cost overruns due to delays (looking at you here, TOCC residents who filed those ridiculous lawsuits) and CSX demands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

You are going to pay a toll to get from one part of Rockville to another?? I do not think many will join you. -another Rockville resident.

[Anonymous]

I do live in the exurbs (Frederick County) and I am really unclear on whether this will help. I am curious about the volume of traffic using the part that will be widened vs further north where it will not.

If there was more regular bus service to DC, I would 100% absolutely take it. Sitting in traffic is more tolerable if you can sleep or work so I really, really prefer ANY form of public transit. But bus to Shady Grove doesn't help me much. What I would really like to see is MARC extended to L'Enfant. DC is a big city so it's the last few miles of the commute that are the killer if your office is far from the red line. Also, more telework. The last year has shown that we can do it so going back to the old routine seems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

This is ironic. You folks need to understand history better.

Prior to Doug Duncan the county was run by a comfortable NIMBY cabal that blocked all change and progress because they were happy with the status quo. Sound familiar?

Residents got fed up with the lack of investment in infrastructure and Doug Dougan recognized this and responses to citizens concerns. He ran on an “Anti-Gridlock” platform. And more than that, he recruited 5 candidates to run for council seats on an “Anti-Gridlock” slate. And guess what? They won and followed through on their promises.

The current council and you NIMBY anti-process idiots will get your due if you continue to prevent this county from moving forward with modest infrastructure projects. Block the HOT lanes and it only increases the chances of a second bridge, which the MCOG cannot vote down because they approved it already in the master plan. You folks are stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

This is ironic. You folks need to understand history better.

Prior to Doug Duncan the county was run by a comfortable NIMBY cabal that blocked all change and progress because they were happy with the status quo. Sound familiar?

Residents got fed up with the lack of investment in infrastructure and Doug Dougan recognized this and responses to citizens concerns. He ran on an “Anti-Gridlock” platform. And more than that, he recruited 5 candidates to run for council seats on an “Anti-Gridlock” slate. And guess what? They won and followed through on their promises.

The current council and you NIMBY anti-process idiots will get your due if you continue to prevent this county from moving forward with modest infrastructure projects. Block the HOT lanes and it only increases the chances of a second bridge, which the MCOG cannot vote down because they approved it already in the master plan. You folks are stupid.

Um where is that second bridge going to be? I thought the NIMBYs sold the land for the outer beltway in the 70's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

This is ironic. You folks need to understand history better.

Prior to Doug Duncan the county was run by a comfortable NIMBY cabal that blocked all change and progress because they were happy with the status quo. Sound familiar?

Residents got fed up with the lack of investment in infrastructure and Doug Dougan recognized this and responses to citizens concerns. He ran on an “Anti-Gridlock” platform. And more than that, he recruited 5 candidates to run for council seats on an “Anti-Gridlock” slate. And guess what? They won and followed through on their promises.

The current council and you NIMBY anti-process idiots will get your due if you continue to prevent this county from moving forward with modest infrastructure projects. Block the HOT lanes and it only increases the chances of a second bridge, which the MCOG cannot vote down because they approved it already in the master plan. You folks are stupid.

Here is a list of 5 (not 6) people who are not Republicans: Doug Duncan, Steve Silverman, Michael Subin, Nancy Floreen and George Leventhal.

There is no second crossing in either MWCOG's 2018 summary of financially constrained projects or air quality conformity analysis: https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2018/10/17/visualize-2045-a-long-range-transportation-plan-for-the-national-capital-region-featured-publications-tpb-visualize-2045/

I've never yet heard Neil Potter or Sidney Kramer described as NIMBYs, but there's a first time for everything, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do live in the exurbs (Frederick County) and I am really unclear on whether this will help. I am curious about the volume of traffic using the part that will be widened vs further north where it will not.

If there was more regular bus service to DC, I would 100% absolutely take it. Sitting in traffic is more tolerable if you can sleep or work so I really, really prefer ANY form of public transit. But bus to Shady Grove doesn't help me much. What I would really like to see is MARC extended to L'Enfant. DC is a big city so it's the last few miles of the commute that are the killer if your office is far from the red line. Also, more telework. The last year has shown that we can do it so going back to the old routine seems

The General Assembly passed a bill in 2020, and overrode Hogan's veto on it in 2021, that requires the Maryland Transit Administration to engage in good-faith negotiations with certain jurisdictions and train companies to reach an agreement on a pilot program to establish MARC train service between Union Station in the District of Columbia and Alexandria Station, Virginia. It also requires MTA to engage in negotiations with Delaware and certain train companies to reach an agreement on a pilot program to establish train service between Perryville, Maryland and Newark, Delaware.

If Hogan were actually interested in improving transportation for Marylanders, he wouldn't have vetoed this bill - or the bill passed in 2021 to help catch up to the state transit maintenance backlog (including MARC) and study the extension of MARC service to Hagerstown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has been the MoCo/Maryland traffic planning mantra for almost the entire 30 years that I've lived here. There have been two new roads built during that time (Montrose Parkway and the ICC) pushed through during Republican administrations. The default strategy is to force people onto Metro or proposed rapid bus lines. (Note: that the ICC has greatly improved my life and the tolls keep the road from being flooded with cars.)

I totally support widening 270 because I live in Rockville (very close to 270) and we basically can't travel from one part of Rockville to another (or adjacent places like our church in Potomac) without being stuck in commuter traffic. But my city and county governments came out against the proposal with little public comment.

Montrose Parkway was a Montgomery County project, built under Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan, who was (and is) not a Republican.

Which only goes to show that terrible road projects, encouraging terrible land use policy, are also built under Democrats.

This is ironic. You folks need to understand history better.

Prior to Doug Duncan the county was run by a comfortable NIMBY cabal that blocked all change and progress because they were happy with the status quo. Sound familiar?

Residents got fed up with the lack of investment in infrastructure and Doug Dougan recognized this and responses to citizens concerns. He ran on an “Anti-Gridlock” platform. And more than that, he recruited 5 candidates to run for council seats on an “Anti-Gridlock” slate. And guess what? They won and followed through on their promises.

The current council and you NIMBY anti-process idiots will get your due if you continue to prevent this county from moving forward with modest infrastructure projects. Block the HOT lanes and it only increases the chances of a second bridge, which the MCOG cannot vote down because they approved it already in the master plan. You folks are stupid.

Here is a list of 5 (not 6) people who are not Republicans: Doug Duncan, Steve Silverman, Michael Subin, Nancy Floreen and George Leventhal.

There is no second crossing in either MWCOG's 2018 summary of financially constrained projects or air quality conformity analysis: https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2018/10/17/visualize-2045-a-long-range-transportation-plan-for-the-national-capital-region-featured-publications-tpb-visualize-2045/

I've never yet heard Neil Potter or Sidney Kramer described as NIMBYs, but there's a first time for everything, I guess.

It looks like had to do some research eh? I never said that the Anti-Gridlock weren’t Democrats. You seem caught up in a childish ideology where you and people who you think agree with you are “good guys” aka Democrats and people that don’t agree with you are evil Republicans.

Anyway, keep blocking one widely popular proposal (expanded ALB w/ HOT lanes) and you will find increased support for a second crossing, which is also widely popular. Just wait.
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/transportation/is-a-second-potomac-river-bridge-in-montgomery-dead-in-the-water/

The second bridge has already been approved for study by the TPB Long Range Plan Task Force. Insist on taking away other reasonable options and you leave the second bridge as the only remaining viable option. So stupid.

[Anonymous]

PP, it's 2021. High time you stopped thinking about moving cars and started thinking about moving people. You keep mentioning Virginia, which plans to greatly expand passenger rail transportation. Our governor? He votes rail transportation bills.