what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

[Anonymous]

I am not against widening but I am against that plan. They were only widening the widest part of the road..leaving a bottleneck at exit 9 and at the beltway. Drivers could not access the toll lanes without LEAVING the highway and re-entering from local streets. We are losing the HOV lanes that were open most hours of the day. Why a PPP without even trying for federal highway money? This whole thing is being voted on by only 3 People. ...on and on...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

Here are some academic articles to sate your curiosity about the relationship between widening roads and additional traffic:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191261510000226
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0965856499000476
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.376.4786&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The solution is to encourage denser and mixed-use development closer-in to DC and near transit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

No, nobody is proposing doing nothing.

Yes, when Metro runs better/more convenient service, then more people take Metro.

This is actually from an Australian satire TV show, but it's an outstanding explanation of the theory of induced demand as applied to road widening: https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/simulated-solutions-utopia-watch-full-season-now-on-iview/806088466514123/ (Economists can quibble about whether or not that actually is an example of Jevons paradox. I am not an economist.)

[Anonymous]

Metro is so incompetent they can't even get the Automatic Door Operation (ADO) to work. Now they rely on the operaters to open doors, and they are told to delay and think so they don't open the wrong side doors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

No, nobody is proposing doing nothing.

Yes, when Metro runs better/more convenient service, then more people take Metro.

This is actually from an Australian satire TV show, but it's an outstanding explanation of the theory of induced demand as applied to road widening: https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/simulated-solutions-utopia-watch-full-season-now-on-iview/806088466514123/ (Economists can quibble about whether or not that actually is an example of Jevons paradox. I am not an economist.)

Metro is NEVER going to operate competently. NEVER.

[Anonymous]

HOV lanes make traffic worse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

No, nobody is proposing doing nothing.

Yes, when Metro runs better/more convenient service, then more people take Metro.

This is actually from an Australian satire TV show, but it's an outstanding explanation of the theory of induced demand as applied to road widening: https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/simulated-solutions-utopia-watch-full-season-now-on-iview/806088466514123/ (Economists can quibble about whether or not that actually is an example of Jevons paradox. I am not an economist.)

Metro is NEVER going to operate competently. NEVER.

I took Metro down town for 20 years. Most of the time..I sat and read a book and it got me to work as expected. The number of times I was more than 10 minutes delayed was quite small. I know it is not the solution for everyone but it moves lots of people pretty well. No way I would sit in traffic on the beltway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

No, nobody is proposing doing nothing.

Yes, when Metro runs better/more convenient service, then more people take Metro.

This is actually from an Australian satire TV show, but it's an outstanding explanation of the theory of induced demand as applied to road widening: https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/simulated-solutions-utopia-watch-full-season-now-on-iview/806088466514123/ (Economists can quibble about whether or not that actually is an example of Jevons paradox. I am not an economist.)

Not everyone works downtown. And one time I was taking the metro from arlington to metro center, at foggy bottom the train just sat there while there was a fire, and smoke was pouring into the train. Rather than leave, it just sat there with the smoke filling the cars with open doors.
Metro is NEVER going to operate competently. NEVER.

I took Metro down town for 20 years. Most of the time..I sat and read a book and it got me to work as expected. The number of times I was more than 10 minutes delayed was quite small. I know it is not the solution for everyone but it moves lots of people pretty well. No way I would sit in traffic on the beltway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should expand it but get rid of the tolls. The fact that the county wants tolls proves they’ve lost sense.

I think moco opposed tolls. But they oppose expanding roads in any capacity. I wish the county council were required to take public transit. Then they'd stop screwing over the non elite.

I knew they opposed roads generally, but the last plan was that tolls were removed for the whole beltway except the section from 270 to the Bridge and then tolls were also included up 270.

Interesting. The local “transit” people who just hate the county were actually happy with this, so I assumed that it was the council’s doing. I would be interested to hear directly from individuals where they stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?

At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.

So doing nothing is the solution? Despite knowing more people are moving further out? There is already gridlock. Does expending metro mean more people take metro? So why does it with roads?

No, nobody is proposing doing nothing.

Yes, when Metro runs better/more convenient service, then more people take Metro.

This is actually from an Australian satire TV show, but it's an outstanding explanation of the theory of induced demand as applied to road widening: https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/simulated-solutions-utopia-watch-full-season-now-on-iview/806088466514123/ (Economists can quibble about whether or not that actually is an example of Jevons paradox. I am not an economist.)

Metro is NEVER going to operate competently. NEVER.

I took Metro down town for 20 years. Most of the time..I sat and read a book and it got me to work as expected. The number of times I was more than 10 minutes delayed was quite small. I know it is not the solution for everyone but it moves lots of people pretty well. No way I would sit in traffic on the beltway.

I’m not sure when you stopped taking Metro but that last decade has been brutal. They have had nonstop fare hikes and increased parking fees such that it is cheaper to drive and park downtown (not counting wear and tear) and then added to that, it’s been fewer trains so they are packed before they get to Medical Center and the reliability was a disgrace. I lost a lot of money over the years on huge after care late fees because Metros unreliability. I’m not interested in taking it anymore once this pandemic is over and if I have to go back downtown again. I’m not doing it.

[Anonymous]

you seriously think the purple line is going to help alleviate traffic? And that there's no purple line to northern virginia??

[Anonymous]

I think the solution is to dam up the potomac river. Just shovel earth over the river, and then gridlock gets reduced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HOV lanes make traffic worse

They seem to work great in VA. Just too expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should expand it but get rid of the tolls. The fact that the county wants tolls proves they’ve lost sense.

I think moco opposed tolls. But they oppose expanding roads in any capacity. I wish the county council were required to take public transit. Then they'd stop screwing over the non elite.

I knew they opposed roads generally, but the last plan was that tolls were removed for the whole beltway except the section from 270 to the Bridge and then tolls were also included up 270.

Interesting. The local “transit” people who just hate the county were actually happy with this, so I assumed that it was the council’s doing. I would be interested to hear directly from individuals where they stand.

No, that's incorrect. The Beltway was removed from the plan, period, except the section between the bridge and the 270 split. There was no plan for any widening without tolls. Tolls are what was supposedly going to pay the for-profit company that was going to build the widening and operate the toll lanes.

If you want to widen the Beltway and 270 without tolls, then you need to come up with at least $9 billion (with a b) in tax money from somewhere.