Colleges that do NOT push individual pronouns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the “they” thing passes. I am not going to engage in this overly sensitive pronoun stupidity.

It’s your right to be grandpa on the lawn yelling at people who pass by. Trans people being out isn’t going to pass. Because the world does move backwards. And in other news, gay people aren’t heading back in the closet because they make you uncomfortable. Deal with the 21st century or don’t. Your call.

But why does there have to be a portion of trans people who insist on being called they?

Why does it bother you? In what capacity is this infringing on your life in such as way that you care? I am being serious, not confrontational. People keep saying things like "I won't indulge their delusion," and "it's a mental illness," but that is not an answer.

Does pronoun usage on rare occasions so atively impact your life and hurt you that you need to spend more than a second thinking if it?

And FWIW< "they" in the trans community is a holdover. It was just an easy replacement."They" is mostly used in the non binary community now.

DP: it should bother all of us because it is narcissistic, anti-scientific and anti-grammatical.

The precise opposite of what higher learning should be.

Narcissistic is a subjective opinion. Non Scientific is flat out false. Juse because like climate change deniers and flat earthers, and anti vaxxers you refuse to believe the science doesn't make it not real and legitimate. As a linguist, I can tell you the anti-grammatical stuff is BA> Language evolves to culture. If it didn't, we would still be saying thou and thy and and words that used to be pejorative. And so on,.

No one has yet to demonstrate how using a preferred pronoun hurts you any more than having to call Elizabeth, Liz or John Randall, JR.

Are we supposed to teach our young children that gender is something we choose? That would be awfully confusing and contrary to my faith. I fear that we are also shaping the next generation to be voluntarily sterile.

Oh reallllly? Let's see what the Bible or whatever your primary faith documents say about what it means to be female/women, and compare that to how you actually live your life, shall we?

Back in the red tent, sweetie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend who is a New York City banker took his son on
a tour of a top college campus that is in the south and
frequently discussed on this forum.

This campus was the son's number one choice. The guide
for the campus tour was a paid assistant at the Admissions Office.

A major part of the campus tour was this pronoun discussion and GLBT life on campus. (No one on the tour asked questions about the GLBT lifestyle on campus, nor seemed interested in it.) The paid assistant and also decision maker at the Admissions office lives the GLBT lifestyle. The paid assistant also
launched into a pretty extensive discussion about
slavery reparations and possible responsibility of the students for future slavery reparations (college not Georgetown).

Dad was surprised that a member of the GLBT lifestyle
was selected to represent the college and was surprised
that all of this alternative lifestyle stuff was shoved in their
face on a group tour particularly since members of the
GLBT lifestyle make up such a small percentage of the
population.

This college is considered to be a conservative
Southern college, top tier.

Son found the pronoun stuff, GLBT indoctrination as to
the lifestyle presence on campus etc to be extremely
bizarre.

Son took this college off of his list and will most likely be going to Notre Dame now.

I believe colleges and community colleges that do not
push the individual pronouns are the exception nowadays.

You probably need to go to one of the Mormon colleges,
Catholic and/or small Christian colleges. At some
of the Catholic colleges however some of the GLBT agenda
is pretty in your face.

How is it "in your face"; did anyone try to like, recruit the son to become gay?

How is a member of the LGBTQ community existing and holding a leadership position on campus a problem?

How is it "pushing" to ask ONCE if someone wants to share their pronouns? (I work on a college campus. This is how it goes. You fill out forms and are asked ONCE if you want to share. In person, you might be asked ONCE if you want to share. If you don't want to share, you don't, and that's the end of that.)

How is any of this "indoctrinating" anyone to anything?

I work on a college campus. When requests come around to share pronouns in some way, I simply choose not to. I have never been pushed or forced. Some people choose to put it in their email signatures; I do not. I have yet to be tarred and feathered.

Again, some more: it's like there's a field for you to put in a suffix, if you care to share. That's not INDOCTRINATING anyone to try to force them to put "junior" or "the III" after their name; the field is there if you need/want it, but you don't have to fill it in. Move on with your damn day. Really.

OP here. If I'm asked to use someone's pronouns, I will use them. I will never intentionally be cruel to another human being, ever. But, you have to realize that you liberals are being bullies on his issue. Could my child be hired as an RA without parroting the university line about pronouns? Could she just remain neutral on the topic? I don't think so. Could I be hired and tenured in academia without putting a "Safe Space" sticker on my door? Unlikely. By the way, any person is safe with me, just don't expect me to celebrate an alternative lifestyle.

If your child wants to be an RA, that means he or she wants to work with students in their primary living environment, yes? So their health, safety, and general health are of paramount importance to the context of his job, yes?

Then, regardless of how your son personally feels about, say, birth control, it would literally be his job to make sure his residents know that the health center has free birth control available to all students. And him making a "moral" judgment and withholding that info would not be an option in the context of HIS JOB, right?

Same with gender identity. Your son or daughter absolutely can go through student life without others' gender identity being an issue for them. But if they CHOOSE to pursue a job in which each and every student's health, safety, comfort and literal HOME ENVIRONMENT are on the line, then you betcha...your child needs to fully know and enforce the residential policies as laid out by the university. Because that's literally the job.

[Anonymous]

Of the many VA schools we toured this past year, only one had the tour guides introduce themselves and state their personal pronoun of choice. We are more "middle of the road" -- neither too conservative nor too liberal leaning. Daughter thought it was odd and it actually stuck out. But we brushed it off thinking..well, it's a very small LAC and obviously very welcoming of the LGBTQ crowd.

I don't think the mere mention of this whole pronoun choice once during tour orientation would make me not want to send my child to this school. IMHO it simply makes it clear that it is a school that is very liberal leaning and accepting of LGBTQ...which is fine.

Personally, this pronoun choice thing seems silly...but I'm more of a go with the flow as long as it's not shoved down my throat. I'd be curious to know what's happening across the ocean with say French or Spanish language....are their universities having the same pronoun issues? What about in England?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend who is a New York City banker took his son on
a tour of a top college campus that is in the south and
frequently discussed on this forum.

This campus was the son's number one choice. The guide
for the campus tour was a paid assistant at the Admissions Office.

A major part of the campus tour was this pronoun discussion and GLBT life on campus. (No one on the tour asked questions about the GLBT lifestyle on campus, nor seemed interested in it.) The paid assistant and also decision maker at the Admissions office lives the GLBT lifestyle. The paid assistant also
launched into a pretty extensive discussion about
slavery reparations and possible responsibility of the students for future slavery reparations (college not Georgetown).

Dad was surprised that a member of the GLBT lifestyle
was selected to represent the college and was surprised
that all of this alternative lifestyle stuff was shoved in their
face on a group tour particularly since members of the
GLBT lifestyle make up such a small percentage of the
population.

This college is considered to be a conservative
Southern college, top tier.

Son found the pronoun stuff, GLBT indoctrination as to
the lifestyle presence on campus etc to be extremely
bizarre.

Son took this college off of his list and will most likely be going to Notre Dame now.

I believe colleges and community colleges that do not
push the individual pronouns are the exception nowadays.

You probably need to go to one of the Mormon colleges,
Catholic and/or small Christian colleges. At some
of the Catholic colleges however some of the GLBT agenda
is pretty in your face.

How is it "in your face"; did anyone try to like, recruit the son to become gay?

How is a member of the LGBTQ community existing and holding a leadership position on campus a problem?

How is it "pushing" to ask ONCE if someone wants to share their pronouns? (I work on a college campus. This is how it goes. You fill out forms and are asked ONCE if you want to share. In person, you might be asked ONCE if you want to share. If you don't want to share, you don't, and that's the end of that.)

How is any of this "indoctrinating" anyone to anything?

I work on a college campus. When requests come around to share pronouns in some way, I simply choose not to. I have never been pushed or forced. Some people choose to put it in their email signatures; I do not. I have yet to be tarred and feathered.

Again, some more: it's like there's a field for you to put in a suffix, if you care to share. That's not INDOCTRINATING anyone to try to force them to put "junior" or "the III" after their name; the field is there if you need/want it, but you don't have to fill it in. Move on with your damn day. Really.

OP here. If I'm asked to use someone's pronouns, I will use them. I will never intentionally be cruel to another human being, ever. But, you have to realize that you liberals are being bullies on his issue. Could my child be hired as an RA without parroting the university line about pronouns? Could she just remain neutral on the topic? I don't think so. Could I be hired and tenured in academia without putting a "Safe Space" sticker on my door? Unlikely. By the way, any person is safe with me, just don't expect me to celebrate an alternative lifestyle.

If your child wants to be an RA, that means he or she wants to work with students in their primary living environment, yes? So their health, safety, and general health are of paramount importance to the context of his job, yes?

Then, regardless of how your son personally feels about, say, birth control, it would literally be his job to make sure his residents know that the health center has free birth control available to all students. And him making a "moral" judgment and withholding that info would not be an option in the context of HIS JOB, right?

Same with gender identity. Your son or daughter absolutely can go through student life without others' gender identity being an issue for them. But if they CHOOSE to pursue a job in which each and every student's health, safety, comfort and literal HOME ENVIRONMENT are on the line, then you betcha...your child needs to fully know and enforce the residential policies as laid out by the university. Because that's literally the job.

I get it. Is the RA also going to make sure that the Mormon, orthodox Jewish, Evangelical, and Catholic students feel comfortable and welcome as well? Many of us feel uncomfortable with mandatory Orientation activities, like "Sex on a Saturday Night." This was a real required event at my university 20 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the “they” thing passes. I am not going to engage in this overly sensitive pronoun stupidity.

It’s your right to be grandpa on the lawn yelling at people who pass by. Trans people being out isn’t going to pass. Because the world does move backwards. And in other news, gay people aren’t heading back in the closet because they make you uncomfortable. Deal with the 21st century or don’t. Your call.

But why does there have to be a portion of trans people who insist on being called they?

Why does it bother you? In what capacity is this infringing on your life in such as way that you care? I am being serious, not confrontational. People keep saying things like "I won't indulge their delusion," and "it's a mental illness," but that is not an answer.

Does pronoun usage on rare occasions so atively impact your life and hurt you that you need to spend more than a second thinking if it?

And FWIW< "they" in the trans community is a holdover. It was just an easy replacement."They" is mostly used in the non binary community now.

DP: it should bother all of us because it is narcissistic, anti-scientific and anti-grammatical.

The precise opposite of what higher learning should be.

Narcissistic is a subjective opinion. Non Scientific is flat out false. Juse because like climate change deniers and flat earthers, and anti vaxxers you refuse to believe the science doesn't make it not real and legitimate. As a linguist, I can tell you the anti-grammatical stuff is BA> Language evolves to culture. If it didn't, we would still be saying thou and thy and and words that used to be pejorative. And so on,.

No one has yet to demonstrate how using a preferred pronoun hurts you any more than having to call Elizabeth, Liz or John Randall, JR.

Are we supposed to teach our young children that gender is something we choose? That would be awfully confusing and contrary to my faith. I fear that we are also shaping the next generation to be voluntarily sterile.

Oh reallllly? Let's see what the Bible or whatever your primary faith documents say about what it means to be female/women, and compare that to how you actually live your life, shall we?

Back in the red tent, sweetie.

DP: before you make fun of someone else's Bible, I hope you realize that you're trying to impose your own SJW Bible onto everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the “they” thing passes. I am not going to engage in this overly sensitive pronoun stupidity.

It’s your right to be grandpa on the lawn yelling at people who pass by. Trans people being out isn’t going to pass. Because the world does move backwards. And in other news, gay people aren’t heading back in the closet because they make you uncomfortable. Deal with the 21st century or don’t. Your call.

But why does there have to be a portion of trans people who insist on being called they?

Why does it bother you? In what capacity is this infringing on your life in such as way that you care? I am being serious, not confrontational. People keep saying things like "I won't indulge their delusion," and "it's a mental illness," but that is not an answer.

Does pronoun usage on rare occasions so atively impact your life and hurt you that you need to spend more than a second thinking if it?

And FWIW< "they" in the trans community is a holdover. It was just an easy replacement."They" is mostly used in the non binary community now.

DP: it should bother all of us because it is narcissistic, anti-scientific and anti-grammatical.

The precise opposite of what higher learning should be.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two sexes. Male or female. XX or XY. You are either one or the other.

OP here. There are also intersex people, who have chromosomal abnormalities.

Really? Introduce us to one that you know personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in higher ed. This is not a university-wide thing; this is a thing when there are sub-groups and smaller units.

So it's not like UVA will prompt you globally to share your pronouns. It's more like when you join a living-learning program, an email from the director will go around; or if you sign up for a conference, they will prompt it during registration; or when you join a club, an email will get sent around...

This happens in businesses, corporations, nonprofits, etc., OP. When I'm prompted or ask to do so at my institution, I simply don't. I'm never pushed.

OP here. Thank you. A Virginia Tech mom recently wrote an article about all students bearing pronouns on their pre-printed orientation nametags. I'm just curious about how ubiquitous this practice is.

When prompted, some students choose to share that info, and some do not. If you don't enter that information, the name tag will just state your name. What is hard to grasp about this?

^^Plus, sounds like Virginia Tech mom needs to get a life/hobby. My parents certainly never asked or cared what was going on with freaking nametags at my university. If they ever noticed something unusual about my college experiences, they might have been like, "Oh, I see Teeter is no longer a women's-only dorm" in casual conversation; they didn't feel the need to write a "blog" about MY college experience. FFS.

There are a LOT of things about other people I find bizarre. But you know what? It costs me nothing to treat people with basic respect. It costs me nothing to call someone by the name they introduce themselves to me with. It costs me nothing to use their desired pronouns.

You have to pretty much be going out of your way to be exclusionary and harmful not to simply call someone by their preferred name and with their preferred pronouns.



Well why would they? People weren't being asked to state on their name tag as to whether or not their biological sex matched their mental state. This is a new thing, that many people understandably find quite bizzare.

There are a LOT of things about other people I find bizarre. But you know what? It costs me nothing to treat people with basic respect. It costs me nothing to call someone by the name they introduce themselves to me with. It costs me nothing to use their desired pronouns.

You have to pretty much be going out of your way to be exclusionary and harmful not to simply call someone by their preferred name and with their preferred pronouns.

Actually, it does. It costs you your dignity and the impression to other people that you understand the difference between reality and fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Read this from BBC.com Non-binary is a thing at UK universities too. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34901704

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two sexes. Male or female. XX or XY. You are either one or the other.

OP here. There are also intersex people, who have chromosomal abnormalities.

Yes, those are abnormalities and extremely rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend who is a New York City banker took his son on
a tour of a top college campus that is in the south and
frequently discussed on this forum.

This campus was the son's number one choice. The guide
for the campus tour was a paid assistant at the Admissions Office.

A major part of the campus tour was this pronoun discussion and GLBT life on campus. (No one on the tour asked questions about the GLBT lifestyle on campus, nor seemed interested in it.) The paid assistant and also decision maker at the Admissions office lives the GLBT lifestyle. The paid assistant also
launched into a pretty extensive discussion about
slavery reparations and possible responsibility of the students for future slavery reparations (college not Georgetown).

Dad was surprised that a member of the GLBT lifestyle
was selected to represent the college and was surprised
that all of this alternative lifestyle stuff was shoved in their
face on a group tour particularly since members of the
GLBT lifestyle make up such a small percentage of the
population.

This college is considered to be a conservative
Southern college, top tier.

Son found the pronoun stuff, GLBT indoctrination as to
the lifestyle presence on campus etc to be extremely
bizarre.

Son took this college off of his list and will most likely be going to Notre Dame now.

I believe colleges and community colleges that do not
push the individual pronouns are the exception nowadays.

You probably need to go to one of the Mormon colleges,
Catholic and/or small Christian colleges. At some
of the Catholic colleges however some of the GLBT agenda
is pretty in your face.

Question, as a parent of a HS jr and a HS freshman who will soon be making the rounds of college tours: Do any of the kids/ parents have the nerve to speak up and tell the guides to STHU and to stick to the basics, like where the dorms are located and how great it is to major in math? I am not on college tours to hear a 20 year old preach to me about the need for "reparations," or to try to shock me by asking me to refer to him as "they."

[Anonymous]

It's everywhere... but if you raised your kid to be a critical thinker, s/he'll see right through this stuff and laugh about it. I'd choose the college on the basis of reputation, academics, and matriculation to good grad / professional schools. Agree with a lot of other posters that much of this will have to do with the academic departments. Most of this stuff is in disciplines like gender studies, sociology, etc. Stick with economics, philosophy, classics, the hard sciences, and this stuff goes away. You can find pockets of the humanities where there are still some professors who haven't drunk the victim kool-aid. If your son / daughter does well at a selective college, they won't have to deal with it at all once they're in Med School .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend who is a New York City banker took his son on
a tour of a top college campus that is in the south and
frequently discussed on this forum.

This campus was the son's number one choice. The guide
for the campus tour was a paid assistant at the Admissions Office.

A major part of the campus tour was this pronoun discussion and GLBT life on campus. (No one on the tour asked questions about the GLBT lifestyle on campus, nor seemed interested in it.) The paid assistant and also decision maker at the Admissions office lives the GLBT lifestyle. The paid assistant also
launched into a pretty extensive discussion about
slavery reparations and possible responsibility of the students for future slavery reparations (college not Georgetown).

Dad was surprised that a member of the GLBT lifestyle
was selected to represent the college and was surprised
that all of this alternative lifestyle stuff was shoved in their
face on a group tour particularly since members of the
GLBT lifestyle make up such a small percentage of the
population.

This college is considered to be a conservative
Southern college, top tier.

Son found the pronoun stuff, GLBT indoctrination as to
the lifestyle presence on campus etc to be extremely
bizarre.

Son took this college off of his list and will most likely be going to Notre Dame now.

I believe colleges and community colleges that do not
push the individual pronouns are the exception nowadays.

You probably need to go to one of the Mormon colleges,
Catholic and/or small Christian colleges. At some
of the Catholic colleges however some of the GLBT agenda
is pretty in your face.

How is it "in your face"; did anyone try to like, recruit the son to become gay?

How is a member of the LGBTQ community existing and holding a leadership position on campus a problem?

How is it "pushing" to ask ONCE if someone wants to share their pronouns? (I work on a college campus. This is how it goes. You fill out forms and are asked ONCE if you want to share. In person, you might be asked ONCE if you want to share. If you don't want to share, you don't, and that's the end of that.)

How is any of this "indoctrinating" anyone to anything?

I work on a college campus. When requests come around to share pronouns in some way, I simply choose not to. I have never been pushed or forced. Some people choose to put it in their email signatures; I do not. I have yet to be tarred and feathered.

Again, some more: it's like there's a field for you to put in a suffix, if you care to share. That's not INDOCTRINATING anyone to try to force them to put "junior" or "the III" after their name; the field is there if you need/want it, but you don't have to fill it in. Move on with your damn day. Really.

OP here. If I'm asked to use someone's pronouns, I will use them. I will never intentionally be cruel to another human being, ever. But, you have to realize that you liberals are being bullies on his issue. Could my child be hired as an RA without parroting the university line about pronouns? Could she just remain neutral on the topic? I don't think so. Could I be hired and tenured in academia without putting a "Safe Space" sticker on my door? Unlikely. By the way, any person is safe with me, just don't expect me to celebrate an alternative lifestyle.

If your child wants to be an RA, that means he or she wants to work with students in their primary living environment, yes? So their health, safety, and general health are of paramount importance to the context of his job, yes?

Then, regardless of how your son personally feels about, say, birth control, it would literally be his job to make sure his residents know that the health center has free birth control available to all students. And him making a "moral" judgment and withholding that info would not be an option in the context of HIS JOB, right?

Same with gender identity. Your son or daughter absolutely can go through student life without others' gender identity being an issue for them. But if they CHOOSE to pursue a job in which each and every student's health, safety, comfort and literal HOME ENVIRONMENT are on the line, then you betcha...your child needs to fully know and enforce the residential policies as laid out by the university. Because that's literally the job.

I get it. Is the RA also going to make sure that the Mormon, orthodox Jewish, Evangelical, and Catholic students feel comfortable and welcome as well? Many of us feel uncomfortable with mandatory Orientation activities, like "Sex on a Saturday Night." This was a real required event at my university 20 years ago.

Here's the thing about OPTING IN to be a member of a community: you don't have to.

If you don't like/can't abide be the policies of a university, by no means should you feel obligated to go to that university.

Or, you can certainly challenge the community once you are in it. But you actually have to be a part of it first, not just be a whiny parent wailing about policies that don't really directly impact their students in any demonstrable way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in higher ed. This is not a university-wide thing; this is a thing when there are sub-groups and smaller units.

So it's not like UVA will prompt you globally to share your pronouns. It's more like when you join a living-learning program, an email from the director will go around; or if you sign up for a conference, they will prompt it during registration; or when you join a club, an email will get sent around...

This happens in businesses, corporations, nonprofits, etc., OP. When I'm prompted or ask to do so at my institution, I simply don't. I'm never pushed.

OP here. Thank you. A Virginia Tech mom recently wrote an article about all students bearing pronouns on their pre-printed orientation nametags. I'm just curious about how ubiquitous this practice is.

When prompted, some students choose to share that info, and some do not. If you don't enter that information, the name tag will just state your name. What is hard to grasp about this?

^^Plus, sounds like Virginia Tech mom needs to get a life/hobby. My parents certainly never asked or cared what was going on with freaking nametags at my university. If they ever noticed something unusual about my college experiences, they might have been like, "Oh, I see Teeter is no longer a women's-only dorm" in casual conversation; they didn't feel the need to write a "blog" about MY college experience. FFS.

There are a LOT of things about other people I find bizarre. But you know what? It costs me nothing to treat people with basic respect. It costs me nothing to call someone by the name they introduce themselves to me with. It costs me nothing to use their desired pronouns.

You have to pretty much be going out of your way to be exclusionary and harmful not to simply call someone by their preferred name and with their preferred pronouns.



Well why would they? People weren't being asked to state on their name tag as to whether or not their biological sex matched their mental state. This is a new thing, that many people understandably find quite bizzare.

There are a LOT of things about other people I find bizarre. But you know what? It costs me nothing to treat people with basic respect. It costs me nothing to call someone by the name they introduce themselves to me with. It costs me nothing to use their desired pronouns.

You have to pretty much be going out of your way to be exclusionary and harmful not to simply call someone by their preferred name and with their preferred pronouns.

Actually, it does. It costs you your dignity and the impression to other people that you understand the difference between reality and fantasy.

Your dignity must be damn frail indeed if OPTIONAL exercises including the mere invitation to share your pronouns if you want to is so freaking problematic for you.

[Anonymous]

With the cost of a college education skyrocketing, schools need to be careful about alienating the folks paying those high tuition bills - the parents.

I think the next financial crisis will involve higher education as more and more people default on student loans after obtaining expensive, worthless degrees. With the looming recession, young graduates will be seriously hurting if they’ve relied heavily on student loans.

Consider the value of the diploma and don’t get in over your head. The PC pronoun issue is just a silly distraction.