Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

All holidays come from one ethnic group/religion/country and not another.

If we are going to teach our kids how to function in the broader world and how to live together with kindness and respect, we need to first start teaching them how to celebrate together and introduce them to the different ways different communities experience joyful holidays and traditions.

We have tried cutting kids off from understanding one another under the misguided attitude that anything that is different is bad, and any mainstream US traditions like Christmas are also bad because someone somewhere might feel left out. It is not working. The only thing that is continually happening is that people are starting to hate each other and anyone who is different from them, instead of enjoying each other's traditions and relishing the flavor that our differences can bring to our lives. Also, teachers are so afraid to offend someone and make a mistake, that their hands are tied and they can not teach or enrich their student's lives.

Your way is failing miserably.

We need to get back to celebrating together, starting with our schools.

So you're exclusively worried about minorities feeling offended. Got it.

Or, if I'm mistaken, and you actually want us to all celebrate Diwali together and ignore Christmas next year -- great.

Diwali is not in December, fyi.

It is in October or November.

It would be wonderful for the kids to learn about Diwali in October or November.

Why must you have an either or? Do you like how every community, liberal and conservative, are so afraid and hateful of one another? What the schools have been doing the past decade or so is not good for society. Your attitude only creates fear and division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

+1

It’s secular to everyone in my family and to many of our friends.

Do you consider yourself Christian? If it's truly secular, why celebrate Christmas and not try Diwali or Hannukah?

DP. Hannukah and Diwali are not "my" holidays, and I'm sensitive to issues of cultural appropriation. I also don't celebrate St. Patricks Day, because it's not part of my cultural traditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

I believe that families celebrate Hanukkah secularly.

I don't find it scary.

I want "It is really scary" pp to explain why it's scary that people celebrate certain things secularly. That's what I posted about. I, and other people, have addressed prioritizing one celebration over another in other posts.

So, "It is really scary" pp, please answer. Hanukkah PP above might also be interested in you weighing in if it's scary that people believe they celebrate secular Hanukkah.

And I guarantee you that every single family celebrating Hannuka "secularly" is Jewish culturally, and celebrates Hannukah because they are Jewish and it is a Jewish holiday. It's not really a distinction with a meaning. Maybe Halloween is a more difficult case. Maybe in 100 years Christmas will be truly secular, but it's surely not now.

I am American and Christmas is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. I am American and Halloween is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. There are Americans who celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, and there are Americans who celebrate Halloween as a religious holiday. And there are Americans who do not celebrate Christmas or Halloween either as American or religious holidays.

I don't find any of this scary. Are you the "scary" person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

I am OP. And bingo!!! You got it. I said it on page 1. Jews were persecuted by Christians and it’s the symbolizing of my daughter being forced to participate in crafts associated with Christmas, a Christian holiday. My post says Christmas education, not Christian education. And again, I am fine with a few... it was just every day for a month was overkill and excludes her, when it can easily have been related.

Totally talking to the teacher if anyone cares.

You may continue debating religion for another 13 pages.

[Anonymous]

What is celebrating Hanukkah secularly? We light candles every night, I’ll make latkes one night if we’re home, we have a bag of dreidels that maybe the kids will play with —this year they didn’t. Not sure what else there is to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

+1

It’s secular to everyone in my family and to many of our friends.

Do you consider yourself Christian? If it's truly secular, why celebrate Christmas and not try Diwali or Hannukah?

DP. Hannukah and Diwali are not "my" holidays, and I'm sensitive to issues of cultural appropriation. I also don't celebrate St. Patricks Day, because it's not part of my cultural traditions.

OK so no Christmas in schools. Done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

All holidays come from one ethnic group/religion/country and not another.

If we are going to teach our kids how to function in the broader world and how to live together with kindness and respect, we need to first start teaching them how to celebrate together and introduce them to the different ways different communities experience joyful holidays and traditions.

We have tried cutting kids off from understanding one another under the misguided attitude that anything that is different is bad, and any mainstream US traditions like Christmas are also bad because someone somewhere might feel left out. It is not working. The only thing that is continually happening is that people are starting to hate each other and anyone who is different from them, instead of enjoying each other's traditions and relishing the flavor that our differences can bring to our lives. Also, teachers are so afraid to offend someone and make a mistake, that their hands are tied and they can not teach or enrich their student's lives.

Your way is failing miserably.

We need to get back to celebrating together, starting with our schools.

So you're exclusively worried about minorities feeling offended. Got it.

Or, if I'm mistaken, and you actually want us to all celebrate Diwali together and ignore Christmas next year -- great.

I am sorry you have such animosity about bringing communities together.

If you stopped being so smug and censorious and listened, you'd hear OP and others say that too much Christmas in elementary school does NOT bring communities together. It alienates minorities. What I hear you saying is that you don't care, and that minorities should assimilate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

I believe that families celebrate Hanukkah secularly.

I don't find it scary.

I want "It is really scary" pp to explain why it's scary that people celebrate certain things secularly. That's what I posted about. I, and other people, have addressed prioritizing one celebration over another in other posts.

So, "It is really scary" pp, please answer. Hanukkah PP above might also be interested in you weighing in if it's scary that people believe they celebrate secular Hanukkah.

And I guarantee you that every single family celebrating Hannuka "secularly" is Jewish culturally, and celebrates Hannukah because they are Jewish and it is a Jewish holiday. It's not really a distinction with a meaning. Maybe Halloween is a more difficult case. Maybe in 100 years Christmas will be truly secular, but it's surely not now.

I am American and Christmas is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. I am American and Halloween is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. There are Americans who celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, and there are Americans who celebrate Halloween as a religious holiday. And there are Americans who do not celebrate Christmas or Halloween either as American or religious holidays.

I don't find any of this scary. Are you the "scary" person?

The point is, if we were just celebrating secular winter holidays in schools, there should be as much Hannukah and Diwali and Eid as Christmas -- because they can be "secular". In OP's school, there transparently is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

I am OP. And bingo!!! You got it. I said it on page 1. Jews were persecuted by Christians and it’s the symbolizing of my daughter being forced to participate in crafts associated with Christmas, a Christian holiday. My post says Christmas education, not Christian education. And again, I am fine with a few... it was just every day for a month was overkill and excludes her, when it can easily have been related.

Totally talking to the teacher if anyone cares.

You may continue debating religion for another 13 pages.

People have a big problem accepting that Christians persecuted Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

+1

It’s secular to everyone in my family and to many of our friends.

Do you consider yourself Christian? If it's truly secular, why celebrate Christmas and not try Diwali or Hannukah?

DP. Hannukah and Diwali are not "my" holidays, and I'm sensitive to issues of cultural appropriation. I also don't celebrate St. Patricks Day, because it's not part of my cultural traditions.

OK so no Christmas in schools. Done.

That's a non-sequitur. If I had said I was against people learning about holidays that aren't from their tradition, your comment would make sense.

If you think people shouldn't learn about things they cannot adopt as their own, then you also need to be against children learning about American Indian traditions, South American traditions, African American traditions, and so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

I believe that families celebrate Hanukkah secularly.

I don't find it scary.

I want "It is really scary" pp to explain why it's scary that people celebrate certain things secularly. That's what I posted about. I, and other people, have addressed prioritizing one celebration over another in other posts.

So, "It is really scary" pp, please answer. Hanukkah PP above might also be interested in you weighing in if it's scary that people believe they celebrate secular Hanukkah.

And I guarantee you that every single family celebrating Hannuka "secularly" is Jewish culturally, and celebrates Hannukah because they are Jewish and it is a Jewish holiday. It's not really a distinction with a meaning. Maybe Halloween is a more difficult case. Maybe in 100 years Christmas will be truly secular, but it's surely not now.

I am American and Christmas is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. I am American and Halloween is an American holiday, and I celebrate it. There are Americans who celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, and there are Americans who celebrate Halloween as a religious holiday. And there are Americans who do not celebrate Christmas or Halloween either as American or religious holidays.

I don't find any of this scary. Are you the "scary" person?

The point is, if we were just celebrating secular winter holidays in schools, there should be as much Hannukah and Diwali and Eid as Christmas -- because they can be "secular". In OP's school, there transparently is not.

No, that's not the point of this particular back-and-forth. This particular back-and-forth is because someone said "It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this" where this is "Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday."

"Scary" person, please come and explain why it's scary, and tell me whether it's also scary that people believe Halloween is both a cultural and a religious holiday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

I am OP. And bingo!!! You got it. I said it on page 1. Jews were persecuted by Christians and it’s the symbolizing of my daughter being forced to participate in crafts associated with Christmas, a Christian holiday. My post says Christmas education, not Christian education. And again, I am fine with a few... it was just every day for a month was overkill and excludes her, when it can easily have been related.

Totally talking to the teacher if anyone cares.

You may continue debating religion for another 13 pages.

In your specific instance, OP, two weeks sounds like a lot. However, they spend at least a month on pumpkins, so it's not that surprising that they would spend several weeks on winter holidays/Christmas. Kindergarten is mostly about enculturation, into the school culture, more than it is about academics. You'll find that no other grade spends as much time on holidays.

Speak to the school about it. It may or may not change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

I am OP. And bingo!!! You got it. I said it on page 1. Jews were persecuted by Christians and it’s the symbolizing of my daughter being forced to participate in crafts associated with Christmas, a Christian holiday. My post says Christmas education, not Christian education. And again, I am fine with a few... it was just every day for a month was overkill and excludes her, when it can easily have been related.

Totally talking to the teacher if anyone cares.

You may continue debating religion for another 13 pages.

Good.

[Anonymous]

Is this a title 1/high poverty school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

I am OP. And bingo!!! You got it. I said it on page 1. Jews were persecuted by Christians and it’s the symbolizing of my daughter being forced to participate in crafts associated with Christmas, a Christian holiday. My post says Christmas education, not Christian education. And again, I am fine with a few... it was just every day for a month was overkill and excludes her, when it can easily have been related.

Totally talking to the teacher if anyone cares.

You may continue debating religion for another 13 pages.

Uuummmm, OP, I'm sorry but YOU don't get it. DP. You do realize that the Jesus of the Christmas celebration died because of Jewish persecution, don't you? This all goes both ways. And when you cited some of the examples - elves, santa - you neglected to show any correlation to religion. Those are urban legends that have a cultural association in the American world but they are decidedly NOT religious, Christian or otherwise. But by all means talk to the teacher and give her a chance to educate the ignorant.