Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

Well, OP never said her daughter's school was telling every Christian story and doing constant Christmas activities. She listed about a half dozen activities, and all but the Nativity were secular and not Christian.

Hannukah is 8 nights. I would be perfectly fine with the schools doing an activity for each of those days to teach the kids about the history of Hanukah, maybe science lessons about candles vs the different oils that can be used for light, decorating a Menorah coloring sheet, learning about the driedel, etc. Most Christians would be fine with this. After all, Jesus was a Jew.

Would they be ok with Muslim holidays/celebrations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

All holidays come from one ethnic group/religion/country and not another.

If we are going to teach our kids how to function in the broader world and how to live together with kindness and respect, we need to first start teaching them how to celebrate together and introduce them to the different ways different communities experience joyful holidays and traditions.

We have tried cutting kids off from understanding one another under the misguided attitude that anything that is different is bad, and any mainstream US traditions like Christmas are also bad because someone somewhere might feel left out. It is not working. The only thing that is continually happening is that people are starting to hate each other and anyone who is different from them, instead of enjoying each other's traditions and relishing the flavor that our differences can bring to our lives. Also, teachers are so afraid to offend someone and make a mistake, that their hands are tied and they can not teach or enrich their student's lives.

Your way is failing miserably.

We need to get back to celebrating together, starting with our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

Well, OP never said her daughter's school was telling every Christian story and doing constant Christmas activities. She listed about a half dozen activities, and all but the Nativity were secular and not Christian.

Hannukah is 8 nights. I would be perfectly fine with the schools doing an activity for each of those days to teach the kids about the history of Hanukah, maybe science lessons about candles vs the different oils that can be used for light, decorating a Menorah coloring sheet, learning about the driedel, etc. Most Christians would be fine with this. After all, Jesus was a Jew.

Would they be ok with Muslim holidays/celebrations?

My children's schools teach about holidays from a bunch of traditions. It's interesting and the kids enjoy sharing these aspects of themselves with each other.

They do tend to do those traditions that are represented among the children, however, and that can lead to some being left out. When my younger child's classroom had a Buddhist student, they started learning about Buddhist holidays. My older child didn't have that experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

Well, OP never said her daughter's school was telling every Christian story and doing constant Christmas activities. She listed about a half dozen activities, and all but the Nativity were secular and not Christian.

Hannukah is 8 nights. I would be perfectly fine with the schools doing an activity for each of those days to teach the kids about the history of Hanukah, maybe science lessons about candles vs the different oils that can be used for light, decorating a Menorah coloring sheet, learning about the driedel, etc. Most Christians would be fine with this. After all, Jesus was a Jew.

Would they be ok with Muslim holidays/celebrations?

Sure. I would love if my kids learned more about the celebration of Eid and breaking the fast. We always talk about how our Lenten fast and Friday abstaining is similar to Ramadan, and how difficult a challenge it would be to do that over the course of a month.

Our schools should definitely be spending more time teaching the celebratory holidays of all common faiths in this country, along with our secular traditional American holidays like the secular part of Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Great. So tone it down on Xmas and add in other religious/celebrations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great. So tone it down on Xmas and add in other religious/celebrations.

Or add all of them in.

[Anonymous]

Non religious people celebrate Christmas a secular holiday. Just like people celebrate Hallowe'en as a non religious holiday. Same with Easter.

For non religious kids, most don't even know the Christian story behind Christmas. Christmas to them is about Santa, trees, gifts etc.

I grew up in Christian family and we celebrated Christmas as a christian / religious holiday without any of the secular components. My Christmas looked completely different from a secular Christmas and had no resemblance to the Christmas celebrated by my non religious classmates.

Reindeer and elves and santa have nothing to do with the religious holiday. They are just like pumpkins to Hallowe'en.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non religious people celebrate Christmas a secular holiday. Just like people celebrate Hallowe'en as a non religious holiday. Same with Easter.

For non religious kids, most don't even know the Christian story behind Christmas. Christmas to them is about Santa, trees, gifts etc.

I grew up in Christian family and we celebrated Christmas as a christian / religious holiday without any of the secular components. My Christmas looked completely different from a secular Christmas and had no resemblance to the Christmas celebrated by my non religious classmates.

Reindeer and elves and santa have nothing to do with the religious holiday. They are just like pumpkins to Hallowe'en.

But we aren't talking about non-religious kids, we're talking about specifically excluding kids from other religions. Jewish kids don't celebrate Christmas.

[Anonymous]

I am a Christmas-loving practicing Christian. However, there is a strong historical backdrop to the relationship between Christians and Jews. Jews are a small minority that have been persecuted by Christians for centuries. They were forced to convert and killed for not converting. There is a sensitivity when it comes to Christian-based activities (even if they have been somewhat secularized) being imposed on Jewish children.

I have several friends who are Baha'i's from Iran. They don't care at all about Christmas in the schools and happily participate in Christmas activities. But there has not historically been large scale persecution of Baha'i's by Christians. However, they are very sensitive to Muslim's imposing their rules on them, as Baha'i's have consistently been persecuted by Muslims in Iran (l live outside the DC area where there is a large Muslim population in the schools).

We have to understand history when thinking about a people's seeming "overreaction" to activities that the majority deem innocuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non religious people celebrate Christmas a secular holiday. Just like people celebrate Hallowe'en as a non religious holiday. Same with Easter.

For non religious kids, most don't even know the Christian story behind Christmas. Christmas to them is about Santa, trees, gifts etc.

I grew up in Christian family and we celebrated Christmas as a christian / religious holiday without any of the secular components. My Christmas looked completely different from a secular Christmas and had no resemblance to the Christmas celebrated by my non religious classmates.

Reindeer and elves and santa have nothing to do with the religious holiday. They are just like pumpkins to Hallowe'en.

But we aren't talking about non-religious kids, we're talking about specifically excluding kids from other religions. Jewish kids don't celebrate Christmas.

About half the Jewish families I know do some kind of secular Christmas celebrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

+1

It’s secular to everyone in my family and to many of our friends.

Do you consider yourself Christian? If it's truly secular, why celebrate Christmas and not try Diwali or Hannukah?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

I believe that families celebrate Hanukkah secularly.

I don't find it scary.

I want "It is really scary" pp to explain why it's scary that people celebrate certain things secularly. That's what I posted about. I, and other people, have addressed prioritizing one celebration over another in other posts.

So, "It is really scary" pp, please answer. Hanukkah PP above might also be interested in you weighing in if it's scary that people believe they celebrate secular Hanukkah.

And I guarantee you that every single family celebrating Hannuka "secularly" is Jewish culturally, and celebrates Hannukah because they are Jewish and it is a Jewish holiday. It's not really a distinction with a meaning. Maybe Halloween is a more difficult case. Maybe in 100 years Christmas will be truly secular, but it's surely not now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

All holidays come from one ethnic group/religion/country and not another.

If we are going to teach our kids how to function in the broader world and how to live together with kindness and respect, we need to first start teaching them how to celebrate together and introduce them to the different ways different communities experience joyful holidays and traditions.

We have tried cutting kids off from understanding one another under the misguided attitude that anything that is different is bad, and any mainstream US traditions like Christmas are also bad because someone somewhere might feel left out. It is not working. The only thing that is continually happening is that people are starting to hate each other and anyone who is different from them, instead of enjoying each other's traditions and relishing the flavor that our differences can bring to our lives. Also, teachers are so afraid to offend someone and make a mistake, that their hands are tied and they can not teach or enrich their student's lives.

Your way is failing miserably.

We need to get back to celebrating together, starting with our schools.

So you're exclusively worried about minorities feeling offended. Got it.

Or, if I'm mistaken, and you actually want us to all celebrate Diwali together and ignore Christmas next year -- great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non religious people celebrate Christmas a secular holiday. Just like people celebrate Hallowe'en as a non religious holiday. Same with Easter.

For non religious kids, most don't even know the Christian story behind Christmas. Christmas to them is about Santa, trees, gifts etc.

I grew up in Christian family and we celebrated Christmas as a christian / religious holiday without any of the secular components. My Christmas looked completely different from a secular Christmas and had no resemblance to the Christmas celebrated by my non religious classmates.

Reindeer and elves and santa have nothing to do with the religious holiday. They are just like pumpkins to Hallowe'en.

But we aren't talking about non-religious kids, we're talking about specifically excluding kids from other religions. Jewish kids don't celebrate Christmas.

We are not all exactly the same.

We need to share our holidays and celebrations.

Your way means we don't because someone is always going to feel left out.

Your way does not work. It only makes people fear and eventually hate others who are not just like them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

All holidays come from one ethnic group/religion/country and not another.

If we are going to teach our kids how to function in the broader world and how to live together with kindness and respect, we need to first start teaching them how to celebrate together and introduce them to the different ways different communities experience joyful holidays and traditions.

We have tried cutting kids off from understanding one another under the misguided attitude that anything that is different is bad, and any mainstream US traditions like Christmas are also bad because someone somewhere might feel left out. It is not working. The only thing that is continually happening is that people are starting to hate each other and anyone who is different from them, instead of enjoying each other's traditions and relishing the flavor that our differences can bring to our lives. Also, teachers are so afraid to offend someone and make a mistake, that their hands are tied and they can not teach or enrich their student's lives.

Your way is failing miserably.

We need to get back to celebrating together, starting with our schools.

So you're exclusively worried about minorities feeling offended. Got it.

Or, if I'm mistaken, and you actually want us to all celebrate Diwali together and ignore Christmas next year -- great.

I am sorry you have such animosity about bringing communities together.