Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I can see the Spanish teacher talking about baby Jesus, the nativity and doing Christmas carols. Most Spanish teachers in elementary school are Hispanic, religious and culturally think speaking about Jesus and nativity is normal. A general classroom teacher likely would not talk about Jesus. As far as the craft decorations go, many times these activities are planned by room parents and based on the responses here why would you think it's complete BS?

[Anonymous]

And nothing, nothing for Pastafarians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my kids were in ES, the December party had rooms, one for Christmas, one for Hanukkah, one for Diwali,, one for No Ruz and one for an Incan Sun holiday. If someone complained that their tradition was not represented, the were asked to chair a room for that tradition the next year.

I love this idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

[Anonymous]

Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you are in the Deep South of Midwest this is hard to believe. Public schools go to great pains now to make everything genetically winter/ambiguous holiday themed. No teacher I know including myself touches the Christian aspect of it and if any Christmas music is played at all it's highly secular stuff like Frosty the Snowman.

I’m guessing that she lives in either Oklahoma or Georgia.

She said DC upthread.

There is a 3rd, most likely possiblity that OPs kid is learning this stuff through her friends. OP reported projects coming home that are completely secular and not religious or Christian at all. In fact, many Christian evangelical religions object strongly to things like Rudolph and Santa being included with Christmas. They are the same type of evangelical Christians who have harvest festivals instead of Halloween.

OPs kid is 6, so likely kindergarten. In kindergarten, class lessons are often very free flow, with kids interjecting and interrupting continuously to "share" what they know and do in their own lives. So a discussion about what the kids are doing over break could quickly turn into a debate about Santa, which leads to some other kids arguing that Christmas is not about Santa because it is about Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus being born in the manger (with scripture quotes, yes even at 5 or 6) to everyone agreeing that no matter what, Rudolph is real and we need to include everyone in our version of Reindeer Games.

Through all this, the teacher is gingerly monitoring the discussion, trying to balance not offending someone by appearing (to 30 different kindergartners relaying the lessons to varying degrees of easily offended parents) biased or endorsing one of the viewpoints or even worse, evangelizing, when all they are trying to do it to help the kids to naturally share their traditions in a "yes, Larla, many people celebrate this way and others celebrate that way while others don't celebrate at all."

Learning happens in very different ways and often through peers.

If you want your kid raised in a bubble with no one else's ideas, homeschooling is the best way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

That is not separation of Church and State. Separation of Church and State means that the state does not support a specific Church (ie: fund it).

[Anonymous]

I’d be miffed too. My impression is that schools go all-in for holiday celebrations of all types more than when we were kids. Halloween, Thanksgiving, black history month, 100th day of school, etc etc. There’s a weird dynamic with the emphasis of testing on the one hand, and entertaining kids with adult-led celebrations on the other.

I don’t love the Christmas stuff at my DS’s school, but he pea also come home talking about Kwanza and Hanukkah too, so I know they are at least trying. They also learned about the historical figure of St Nicholas, which I actually thought was pretty cool. I would frame your complaint about enriching the curriculum to be more inclusive of world religions & history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

So, if kids in the class are talking about putting up their Nativity, and your kid asks the teacher "What is a Nativity?" should the teacher not respond?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

That is not separation of Church and State. Separation of Church and State means that the state does not support a specific Church (ie: fund it).

That is an interesting and completely incorrect interpretation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

If this is really true - name the school

And if it did happen, did your kid really feel excluded or did she happily participate and then you made her feel bad at home with your faux outrage?
And if she did feel excluded, so what? The every kid must be happy every moment environment has been such a disservice and now that my kid is in middle school I wish they had not had the “every kid is a winner! Every kid most never, ever have an uncomfortable moment, ever. No feelings allowed! “

DP. You're missing the point. We have a constitution that provides for separation of church and state. This is a public school. One of the driving forces for our forefathers coming here was freedom of/freedom from religion. It's troubling how many Americans have no clue about our constitution and the principles on which our country was built.

THat is not what separation of CHurch and State means. It means that there is not a State sponsored Church that is funded by the government. We do not have that.

It does not mean that students are forbidden to talk and learn about various religions in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

That is not separation of Church and State. Separation of Church and State means that the state does not support a specific Church (ie: fund it).

It's not just funding; remember that school-led prayer is not allowed either (although, providing teacher time and craft materials for making Christmas stuff is arguably funding it).

I already said that I'm with OP, even though we celebrate Christmas. There's plenty of Christmas everywhere; why does it have to be inundated at the schools also? I don't think it's purposeful; it's just people not even thinking about the fact there are families who don't celebrate it. But schools should be more thoughtful and inclusive, IMO. What possible harm does that do? Why would anyone argue against that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

So, if kids in the class are talking about putting up their Nativity, and your kid asks the teacher "What is a Nativity?" should the teacher not respond?

Dumb hypothetical. next?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

If this is really true - name the school

And if it did happen, did your kid really feel excluded or did she happily participate and then you made her feel bad at home with your faux outrage?
And if she did feel excluded, so what? The every kid must be happy every moment environment has been such a disservice and now that my kid is in middle school I wish they had not had the “every kid is a winner! Every kid most never, ever have an uncomfortable moment, ever. No feelings allowed! “

DP. You're missing the point. We have a constitution that provides for separation of church and state. This is a public school. One of the driving forces for our forefathers coming here was freedom of/freedom from religion. It's troubling how many Americans have no clue about our constitution and the principles on which our country was built.

THat is not what separation of CHurch and State means. It means that there is not a State sponsored Church that is funded by the government. We do not have that.

It does not mean that students are forbidden to talk and learn about various religions in school.

Do you understand there is a body of case law interpreting the 1st Amendment?