Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the point of doing Christmas activities in school is to “educate” the kids about different traditions then they need to teach kids that Santa is fictional, a story told by parents as part of a “cultural experience”. I would be totally ok with that.

(But, of course, that will never happen because the real purpose is to allow Christian kids a chance to celebrate their Christian holiday within the publically funded school.)

Santa isn’t a Christian figure.

Santa is the centerpiece of celebrating Christmas, a Christian holiday

But to PP's point, my DS's 1st grade teacher actually did give a lesson on the historical St Nicholas! I thought that was pretty cool.

The Christians I know who celebrate Christian Christmas would disagree with you vehemently that Santa is the centerpiece of celebrating Christmas. "Jesus is the reason for the season" and all that.

I celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday and Santa is a centerpiece of our holiday.

Do you believe in god and consider yourself a Christian, though? I call shenanigans on most people who claim to celebrate Christmas "secularly." Unless you're truly an atheist or from a completely different faith tradition, it's most likely in the US that you identify with being Christian, either actively or as part of your upbringing. Just because you don't actually have manger or go to midnight mass does not mean that Christmas is secular, for the vast majority of Americans. I mean, I'm an atheist, but I fully acknowledge that the specialness of Christmas (and why I celebrate it with my child) stems from the religious aspects of my upbringing, and the fact that I have a Christian background.

I am an atheist. My husband is an atheist. Our children are atheists. We celebrate Christmas, and we celebrate it as an entirely secular holiday.

For us, Santa is a centerpiece. For anyone who celebrates Christmas as a religious holiday, that statement would be outrageous. The PP who made the claim that Santa is the centerpiece of the Christian holiday of Christmas sounds like someone like me - someone who only celebrates secular Christmas and isn't aware of how many Christians perceive the "commercialization" of Christmas. Which I also think is bogus - when your religion is the dominant one, and you encourage people to join your religion, you don't get to complain when we take the things we like and leave the rest. Or take back, I suppose, for the pagans who are celebrating the solstice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my kids’ school they don’t even celebrate Halloween for fear of upsetting some people. I am catholic, but I can’t believe that at this day and age a school is able to make such a big deal about one particular region’s customs. I am sorry OP. I hope your DD’s school exoerience is otherwise good and welcoming

In my kids' public school they have Pijama Day every year.

As nudists, we find this truly outrageous.

Best post on the entire thread!

As the PP who wrote that, I find your comment outrageous and xenophobic (I'm an immigrant).

I feel so important now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overly sensitive people are ruining elementary school. Besides, most of what OP describes is secular.

They may be secular. But when they’re not part of your child’s holiday tradition, and they’re getting shoved at your child every day for a month, with comments like “these are part of an American holiday—aren’t you American?”...do you see where there might be a problem?

Listen, I grew up Jewish in the 1980s, learning Christmas carols in school. It was totally fine to sing the songs at school, then come home to our winter celebrations. But there was no Santa at school, no elves, no discussion of the Nativity. I discussed those things with my friends outside of school, sure, even helped a friend or two decorate their tree at their house. And we had them over for Hanukkah festivities. These celebrations don’t need to be in school. It doesn’t have to be an “our festival or no festivals” mentality.

My elementary aged child has some Jehovahs Witnesses in her class. Should the school do away with all birthday celebrations (parent can come in and read a story, child can donate a book to the library)?

This is a serious question - I don't know the answer. I know the Jehovahs Witness children do sometimes feel alienated by various celebrations, and their parents don't even send them to school on Halloween (even though the school doesn't have the children dress in costumes or anything). But I also know that these celebrations can be fun and educational for kids. I like the literacy-oriented birthday observances. And you can't just not have them when there's a kid who doesn't observe, because then you're dealing with inconsistencies in the curriculum which makes things challenging for schools to juggle.

TBH I'd be ok with getting rid of classroom birthdays. That seems like it would take up a lot of time, for little educational benefit, and penalize kids who don't have parents who can participate for various reasons. The more school is just school, the better.

It seems to be a decent way for the school library to get a continued influx of donated books. I see a loss if the school doesn't celebrate or observe any holidays or traditions. While the 100th day of school celebrations in school get to be a little annoying, they truly are fun for the kids.

[Anonymous]

I’m sure posters have already asked you to name the school. This doesn’t sound like any public school in this area.

[Anonymous]

Imagine it's 30 years from now. The DC metro area has become increasingly diverse. Your particular public school has a large community of Muslims. Increasingly, your elementary-aged grandchildren are coming home with art projects all about Ramadan. You complain. You are told, "well, SOME people take Ramadan seriously as a religious observance, but most Muslims these days aren't really that religious. Ramadan has secular aspects too", they tell you. "Why are you getting so bent out of shape about explaining fasting to the kids? Kids don't have to fast anyway.... It's just so that we remember to be grateful that we get to eat so well the rest of the year... its' about Family and feasting, it's basically Thanksgiving. It's not religious!" and so on and so on.

Still think that it's OK for the public school to emphasize particular religious celebrations or symbols at school? Because today it's Santa, tomorrow it could be something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overly sensitive people are ruining elementary school. Besides, most of what OP describes is secular.

Yes, lots of angry posters calling others anti-semites.
If you hate the holiday, fine. But do not ruin it for everyone else.

Reindeer and elves and fairies and gnomes are not mentioned in any religious book.

There was only one accusation of anti-semitism, and that was in response to a poster who said Jews killed Jesus.

Who was responding to OP whining about how the Christians have/had persecuted Jews so that supported his contentions. The main thing is that OP doesn't understand how acculturation works. None of the items about which OP complained are religious in nature but they are definitely mainstreamed Americanisms showing growth towards a bicultural or monoculture lifestyle and the expansion of people's cultural repertoires. Other examples could be of changes in food tastes or clothing styles and fashion trends.

"Whining" that Christians persecuted Jews? And spouting off one of the oldest anti-semitic tropes to do that? Yeah, you have zero credibility here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the point of doing Christmas activities in school is to “educate” the kids about different traditions then they need to teach kids that Santa is fictional, a story told by parents as part of a “cultural experience”. I would be totally ok with that.

(But, of course, that will never happen because the real purpose is to allow Christian kids a chance to celebrate their Christian holiday within the publically funded school.)

Santa isn’t a Christian figure.

Santa is the centerpiece of celebrating Christmas, a Christian holiday

But to PP's point, my DS's 1st grade teacher actually did give a lesson on the historical St Nicholas! I thought that was pretty cool.

The Christians I know who celebrate Christian Christmas would disagree with you vehemently that Santa is the centerpiece of celebrating Christmas. "Jesus is the reason for the season" and all that.

I celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday and Santa is a centerpiece of our holiday.

Do you believe in god and consider yourself a Christian, though? I call shenanigans on most people who claim to celebrate Christmas "secularly." Unless you're truly an atheist or from a completely different faith tradition, it's most likely in the US that you identify with being Christian, either actively or as part of your upbringing. Just because you don't actually have manger or go to midnight mass does not mean that Christmas is secular, for the vast majority of Americans. I mean, I'm an atheist, but I fully acknowledge that the specialness of Christmas (and why I celebrate it with my child) stems from the religious aspects of my upbringing, and the fact that I have a Christian background.

I am an atheist. My husband is an atheist. Our children are atheists. We celebrate Christmas, and we celebrate it as an entirely secular holiday.

For us, Santa is a centerpiece. For anyone who celebrates Christmas as a religious holiday, that statement would be outrageous. The PP who made the claim that Santa is the centerpiece of the Christian holiday of Christmas sounds like someone like me - someone who only celebrates secular Christmas and isn't aware of how many Christians perceive the "commercialization" of Christmas. Which I also think is bogus - when your religion is the dominant one, and you encourage people to join your religion, you don't get to complain when we take the things we like and leave the rest. Or take back, I suppose, for the pagans who are celebrating the solstice.

That's not true at all. Many (most?) families that consider Christmas to be Christian also include Santa, a tree, and gifts as a centerpiece. They're all part of the same holiday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

Santa, elves, reindeer and a Christmas tree are not secular. They relate to Christianity and Christmas. How do you even justify your comments? Its not ok to teach that to public school kids and set them up. Its extremely inappropiate.

Is Santa in the bible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

Santa, elves, reindeer and a Christmas tree are not secular. They relate to Christianity and Christmas. How do you even justify your comments? Its not ok to teach that to public school kids and set them up. Its extremely inappropiate.

Is Santa in the bible?

I think there was a chapter about in him in the old testament.

[Anonymous]

Did I miss which school this is? So hard to picture any local public school being all about fun and gift making and Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

Santa, elves, reindeer and a Christmas tree are not secular. They relate to Christianity and Christmas. How do you even justify your comments? Its not ok to teach that to public school kids and set them up. Its extremely inappropiate.

Is Santa in the bible?

Is the Nicene Creed in the bible?

[Anonymous]

Christmas is a stolen holiday, it's papered over on top of the Winter Solstice. Most of what I, as a Christian, associate with Christmas after a lifetime of celebrating it has nothing to do with Jesus. Those things are still not secular. The two have become inextricably entwined. Mistletoe, presents, evergreen trees, bells, egg nog, bells, Santa, you don't find any of these in the Bible Nativity story, but they are part of our modern, American, Christian interpretation of Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What school is this?

My kids are out of elementary school now, but their schools were always very careful to make everything about winter holiday fun, and never, never did anything directly Christmas related, other than situations where they learned about many different religions and cultures. I’d be curious to know what school is allowing what is described in the OP to happen: it sounds as though they are going backwards instead of forward.

I know, right?! This was never the case when I was younger. I was surprised and kind of sad for her. They did do a thing where parents can come in and talk about your holiday and we did that over Chanukah... but the last three weeks have ONLY been Christmas. I do t want to call the school out, but it’s in DC.

I teach in DC, first year at my current school. I am a devout Christian and was shocked at how much Christmas was celebrated in our school and in individual classrooms. It really was like we went back decades ago. I don't feel comfortable speaking up because I'm new, but I would definitely speak up as a parent, to the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure posters have already asked you to name the school. This doesn’t sound like any public school in this area.

Eh..I can believe it. For preschool my child went to our local DCPS (a title 1 school) and there were celebrations for all of the big commercial holidays - Halloween, Christmas, Valentines Day, even Easter. For Christmas, Toys for Tots would come and deliver presents for all of the kids. OP if this does describe your school, don’t bother wasting your time complaining to the admin. The school has way bigger concerns than people offended by Rudolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What school is this?

My kids are out of elementary school now, but their schools were always very careful to make everything about winter holiday fun, and never, never did anything directly Christmas related, other than situations where they learned about many different religions and cultures. I’d be curious to know what school is allowing what is described in the OP to happen: it sounds as though they are going backwards instead of forward.

I know, right?! This was never the case when I was younger. I was surprised and kind of sad for her. They did do a thing where parents can come in and talk about your holiday and we did that over Chanukah... but the last three weeks have ONLY been Christmas. I do t want to call the school out, but it’s in DC.

Doesn’t sound like Ga, Tenn, the Deep South, or the Midwest.

It sounds like Oklahoma to me - though they would have thrown the 10 commandments in there too, it’s true.

Ever heard that Moses was Jewish????