No birthday present- break up with him?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. And I don’t mean that snarkily!

It sure sounded snarky . . .

But I’ll answer, I’m 51. I own so many things and could buy whatever I want. But I’ve always felt this way even when I’d have much and wanted more. There is something about waiting for trinkets to show me I am loved that has never sat well with me.

Children are old enough to decide what to do for Mother and Fathers Day. Not sure I’ve ever given Valentines Day much thought, except for post-holiday chocolate sales. We ask each other what we want and how to celebrate birthdays and Christmas — and sometimes we plan our own birthday or buy our own gift. Often we do not give birthday presents. If we acknowledge birthdays, it’s more likely to be a joint or family activity. Dinner is the most common family birthday acknowledgment.

My husband and I have been married a long time. He knows me well, but still not as well as I know myself.

OP here. But isn’t this part the key?

OP he took you out to dinner for your birthday several days after the actual date. That is enough for the vast majority of adults. You need to own that YOU have an unusual attachment to physical gifts. Since your preference is unique you need to make the effort to use your words and discuss it with him instead of complaining here and to your friends. And by discuss I mean you tell him what you feel and what you want - NOT that you accuse him of being avoidant, having poor manners, not caring about you, etc. “Joe, I realize you may not get this from what I said, but I actually really love to get gifts and was kind of sad you didn’t get anything for me this year. Do you think you could pick up something small for my birthday and we could have a redo? I know it’s silly but I really love it. Then next week we can go to that show you want to see.”

Ugh, this is such a turnoff. If a man said this to me I’d likely be out of that relationship.

Really? Someone honestly telling you their needs while owning their feelings?

Um, yes, really. If someone tells me their feelings, and those don't align with my own values, I'm out.

Same with me. I think adults who focus on gifts are really weird and I wouldn’t want to be around someone like that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: Now I’ll probably get flamed for asking him when we were going out for my birthday. I’m sorry I was married forever and have no effs to give.

No, you won't, because DCUM believes you should not date a man who is lazy, disorganized, or has unacknowledged ADHD.

OP here: I know- it’s so funny how I’m the villain until I reveal the ADHD part 😂

No, you're still childish to care so much about material gifts. But it's weird that you made it about the physical gift when clearly your problem involves more than that.

Of course it is about more than that! That is the entire point.

No it isn't. At first it seemed like he took her to dinner but gave no other gift. The problem is actually that he made no dinner plan until reminded, was late, and admitted he ran out of time for flowers. If he made and executed a perfect plan for a restaurant meal but there was no gift, that's not a problem IMO. But what OP described when she told the full story is not ok.

OP here. Upon further reflection, I think this is why the lack of a gift has bothered me. It was the overall lack of effort. If he had taken the initiative to plan something in a thoughtful manner, I wouldn’t have been looking for something else to show he cared. It was the same thing for Valentines Day. He never said happy Valentine’s Day I’m excited to celebrate with you at a future date and do something fun. He never said let’s put something on the calendar. (We had our kids that day so we’re apart.) Anyway, this has all been helpful to hear.

I’m married to a surgeon. He makes a lot of money but effort levels for these thoughtful gestures are low. I don’t know what type of doctor this guy is. I’m not making excuses for him but if he is busy, has a lot on his mind plus he has kids.

DH is attractive, smart, loves our kids, is a good provider, helps around the house, does all the car and lawn maintenance, goes to kid things when he is available.

Buying gifts? Never. Planning special occasion dinners? Eh some years, not all years. I say I want to go to X restaurant for my birthday. Some years I book it. Other years he books it. Some valentines he gets me a card and flowers. Some years we are on a trip with our kids. Some years it is just a dinner. My point is there is always time to do this if he is worth it.

[Anonymous]

OP, I do think it’s important that your partner knows what makes you feel loved and good that you communicate these things to each other. However, it may also be worth unpacking why gift giving is so important to you. You can simultaneously need this from your partner (and decide if you want to stay together if your needs aren’t being met) AND communicate to your partner that this need comes from however you grew up and that you are working on understanding this about yourself.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

This. It's never enough, they always pick at it. Break up and find someone who gives physical gifts to your precise standards. If you can.

OP here. I don’t actually think I am being high maintenance here in terms of gift giving. I think it’s a social norm to give something even if small on birthdays, anniversaries if married, chocolate or flowers on Valentine’s Day, Christmas, Mothers or Father’s Day (for spouses). People can opt out of there’s agreement on that of course. And he has gotten me small, thoughtful things in the past, as have I. And of course it doesn’t have to be something physical. It’s the thought that counts, as they say. My exH just automatically had flowers delivered for V day and Mothers Day, and wrote me a card, and, like I said, he struggled with basic tasks. It’s a common courtesy.

Happily married for 15 years - we have never given each other presents for anniversaries or Valentine's Day (do people seriously want overpriced roses and chocolates?!?) and only our KIDS get the parent something for Mother's/Father's Day. Christmas tends to be more practical/family gifts (trips, etc.) plus some small things. Birthdays are more unique because that day is solely about that one person and they deserve to feel special.

[Anonymous]

He’s dating other people and doesn’t want to spend the money. He’s hoping you break up with him first.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd drop him. The men I know who don't make the effort with their significant others to recognize their birthdays and anniversaries are selfish and self-absorbed. ADHD is not an excuse. You deserve better.

But they went out to dinner! He probably thought that *was* recognizing it. Because it is.

OP here. Ok fine, I’ll bite. I had to ask him when we were going out for my birthday because he didn’t proactively set something up. And then he planned a dinner last minute, was late picking me up, and at dinner he said he meant to bring flowers but ran out of time and looked really sheepish like he knew he was not bringing his A game.

Did he have a reason he was late/distracted? Has the relationship simply run its course?

If I were in my twenties, I would never accept this lack of effort. It all kind of sounds like he isn’t into OP.

Unfortunately, OP is now a divorced middle aged woman. I’m not sure if OP wants children. It doesn’t sound like she does.

It doesn’t sound like this is a good match and OP should move on.

I have a friend who is twice divorced. She also highly values gift giving. She was like OP divorced in her mid thirties and married a guy who went all out with gifts and flowers. He was very grand in gestures. Then the gestured stopped after they got married and he left her.

There were many less grand guys who she probably thought were low effort. She could be married with kids but she went for the grand gift giving man.

She seems to have less and less options now in her late forties. She still refused to settle and wants everything.

OP here. I have kids and don’t want more and don’t want to get married again. I’m also fine not dating anyone at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

This. It's never enough, they always pick at it. Break up and find someone who gives physical gifts to your precise standards. If you can.

OP here. I don’t actually think I am being high maintenance here in terms of gift giving. I think it’s a social norm to give something even if small on birthdays, anniversaries if married, chocolate or flowers on Valentine’s Day, Christmas, Mothers or Father’s Day (for spouses). People can opt out of there’s agreement on that of course. And he has gotten me small, thoughtful things in the past, as have I. And of course it doesn’t have to be something physical. It’s the thought that counts, as they say. My exH just automatically had flowers delivered for V day and Mothers Day, and wrote me a card, and, like I said, he struggled with basic tasks. It’s a common courtesy.

How'd that work out for you two?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

This. It's never enough, they always pick at it. Break up and find someone who gives physical gifts to your precise standards. If you can.

OP here. I don’t actually think I am being high maintenance here in terms of gift giving. I think it’s a social norm to give something even if small on birthdays, anniversaries if married, chocolate or flowers on Valentine’s Day, Christmas, Mothers or Father’s Day (for spouses). People can opt out of there’s agreement on that of course. And he has gotten me small, thoughtful things in the past, as have I. And of course it doesn’t have to be something physical. It’s the thought that counts, as they say. My exH just automatically had flowers delivered for V day and Mothers Day, and wrote me a card, and, like I said, he struggled with basic tasks. It’s a common courtesy.

You must be new here if you think it’s “social norm” to give people physical things on all those days.

OP here. I am neither new to Earth nor DC, sadly. What do you think the norm is and how old are you? That last part might be key. And also whether you were taught to write written thank you letters 😂

Not PP but I'm 46 and I still hand write thank you letters and have taught my children to do the same. I also think expecting gifts for every holiday is ridiculous.

Also, your EX husband "automatically" had flowers delivered to you twice a year? Why is that impressive to you?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think someone who doesn’t want a birthday dinner and spending time with their partner over a meal and instead just wants to be bought stuff is just a selfish greedy person.

Yes, we know you think that. You don't need to repeat yourself. Some of us think partners like you are lazy. Time can be spent together over a dinner any old day.

I think OP’s BF is the one who is lazy and only does what suits him. He took her to dinner because HE would also benefit from eating food. He can’t see the benefit in anc didn’t want to put an effort in grabbing a $15 bouquet on his way to dinner. Because it doesn’t benefit him directly and immediately. He doesn’t want to show his affection, or doesn’t care about what was important for OP (and he was well aware of)
The fact of him doing it before and stopping doing it DOES indeed indicate a loss of affection on his end

I would move on

I'd be annoyed if someone got me a $15 bouquet of crappy flowers from Safeway. Are there people who would really like that? Either get me the flowers you know I like or don't get me anything. Don't waste money on some stupid gesture because someone told you that's what you should do on Valentine's Day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is like a man saying my love language is sexy clothing and lingerie. I want her to show me she cares by putting thought into what I would want to see her in and wearing what I want her to wear and when I want her to wear it. If she doesn’t do that, then she clearly doesn’t care about me or love me and it’s disappointing because a good girlfriend would want to please her man and do what is important to him in a thoughtful way.

For some men having s sexy woman who takes care of herself is a non-negotiable. They would never date a fat slob who never wears make up. OP is a materialistic person who expects gifts - why should she compromise and accept a someone who doesn't share her values? I don't share her values, but I still thing she should get what she needs from a relationship with no judgment. I get what I need from mine and find it fulfilling. Everyone should have that

Disagree. Gifts giving has been a love language and way to express affection since beginning of civilization. He was doing it before and now stopped. He could have gotten flowers at $20 at Safeway to show his affection.
It’s not materialistic for OP to feel that way.

Gift giving is a made up ‘love language’ to get stuff. Comes from the traditional gender norms of men are a wallet and need to pay out to be with me mentality… if you actually love someone then you don’t care that they brought you Valentine’s Day gifts in person or that your birthday gift was a dinner out. Do you teach your kids to demand gifts from extended family and from everyone around them and if they don’t get gifts on the exact day, then those people don’t love them? Nonsense. Gifts shouldn’t be demanded or required or else they aren’t gifts.

It’s very impolite to go to someone’s bday party and offer them an act of service (clean the kitchen) when everyone else brings gift. I just wouldn’t invite that person anymore.
It is still traditional and a social norm to give gifts on bday. My mom will be very upset if I don’t give her flowers or anything for her bday. I give gifts to my girlfriends on their bdays. Because I value these people.
And yes, you need to grow up: life in general is material. It costs money.

I wouldn’t be with a man who only can offer acts of service but I’m the one paying rent. No way, it’s actually HIM who is being materialistic and too cheap .

I'd much rather have someone clean my kitchen than get me a hand towel or candle I won't use!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is like a man saying my love language is sexy clothing and lingerie. I want her to show me she cares by putting thought into what I would want to see her in and wearing what I want her to wear and when I want her to wear it. If she doesn’t do that, then she clearly doesn’t care about me or love me and it’s disappointing because a good girlfriend would want to please her man and do what is important to him in a thoughtful way.

For some men having s sexy woman who takes care of herself is a non-negotiable. They would never date a fat slob who never wears make up. OP is a materialistic person who expects gifts - why should she compromise and accept a someone who doesn't share her values? I don't share her values, but I still thing she should get what she needs from a relationship with no judgment. I get what I need from mine and find it fulfilling. Everyone should have that

Disagree. Gifts giving has been a love language and way to express affection since beginning of civilization. He was doing it before and now stopped. He could have gotten flowers at $20 at Safeway to show his affection.
It’s not materialistic for OP to feel that way.

Gift giving is a made up ‘love language’ to get stuff. Comes from the traditional gender norms of men are a wallet and need to pay out to be with me mentality… if you actually love someone then you don’t care that they brought you Valentine’s Day gifts in person or that your birthday gift was a dinner out. Do you teach your kids to demand gifts from extended family and from everyone around them and if they don’t get gifts on the exact day, then those people don’t love them? Nonsense. Gifts shouldn’t be demanded or required or else they aren’t gifts.

It’s very impolite to go to someone’s bday party and offer them an act of service (clean the kitchen) when everyone else brings gift. I just wouldn’t invite that person anymore.
It is still traditional and a social norm to give gifts on bday. My mom will be very upset if I don’t give her flowers or anything for her bday. I give gifts to my girlfriends on their bdays. Because I value these people.
And yes, you need to grow up: life in general is material. It costs money.

I wouldn’t be with a man who only can offer acts of service but I’m the one paying rent. No way, it’s actually HIM who is being materialistic and too cheap .

Your mom sounds crazy. And I certainly would not want gifts from girlfriends. How much of life must be given over to this tedious shopping, wrapping, giving, feigning excitement, then having to keep track of who gave you something because they'll get pouty if you don't repeat the routine back to them... It's all so boring! Can't we be adults and skip this?

I order stuff online after asking what they want. If they say anything I send an electronic money gift card for $50-70. AND I pay for dinner taking them out. You see I’m not cheap with people I value and want to stay in my life

It’s still very much a social norm to give at least a small token on bday, Valentines Day etc.

Those who don’t consider it a norm would be a minority, if we created an online poll

Wait, are you for real? You ASK your girlfriends what they want for their birthday and then buy it online (which takes almost zero effort from you) or you give them an e-gift card for basically cash? That is the most ridiculous, transactional, lazy thing I have ever heard. And you value this kind of gift giving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a man saying my love language is sexy clothing and lingerie. I want her to show me she cares by putting thought into what I would want to see her in and wearing what I want her to wear and when I want her to wear it. If she doesn’t do that, then she clearly doesn’t care about me or love me and it’s disappointing because a good girlfriend would want to please her man and do what is important to him in a thoughtful way.

For some men having s sexy woman who takes care of herself is a non-negotiable. They would never date a fat slob who never wears make up. OP is a materialistic person who expects gifts - why should she compromise and accept a someone who doesn't share her values? I don't share her values, but I still thing she should get what she needs from a relationship with no judgment. I get what I need from mine and find it fulfilling. Everyone should have that

Disagree. Gifts giving has been a love language and way to express affection since beginning of civilization. He was doing it before and now stopped. He could have gotten flowers at $20 at Safeway to show his affection.
It’s not materialistic for OP to feel that way.

Gift giving is a made up ‘love language’ to get stuff. Comes from the traditional gender norms of men are a wallet and need to pay out to be with me mentality… if you actually love someone then you don’t care that they brought you Valentine’s Day gifts in person or that your birthday gift was a dinner out. Do you teach your kids to demand gifts from extended family and from everyone around them and if they don’t get gifts on the exact day, then those people don’t love them? Nonsense. Gifts shouldn’t be demanded or required or else they aren’t gifts.

It’s very impolite to go to someone’s bday party and offer them an act of service (clean the kitchen) when everyone else brings gift. I just wouldn’t invite that person anymore.
It is still traditional and a social norm to give gifts on bday. My mom will be very upset if I don’t give her flowers or anything for her bday. I give gifts to my girlfriends on their bdays. Because I value these people.
And yes, you need to grow up: life in general is material. It costs money.

I wouldn’t be with a man who only can offer acts of service but I’m the one paying rent. No way, it’s actually HIM who is being materialistic and too cheap .

Your mom sounds crazy. And I certainly would not want gifts from girlfriends. How much of life must be given over to this tedious shopping, wrapping, giving, feigning excitement, then having to keep track of who gave you something because they'll get pouty if you don't repeat the routine back to them... It's all so boring! Can't we be adults and skip this?

I order stuff online after asking what they want. If they say anything I send an electronic money gift card for $50-70. AND I pay for dinner taking them out. You see I’m not cheap with people I value and want to stay in my life

It’s still very much a social norm to give at least a small token on bday, Valentines Day etc.

Those who don’t consider it a norm would be a minority, if we created an online poll

You giving gift cards and buying dinner? You folks already told us that that is too low effort. But you are not cheap? Sounds transactional.

Read better - gift cards if the person didn’t ask for anything specific

I’m a full fledged working woman and have been for decades. I cannot imagine telling my friend I want specific trinket. That’s really tacky.

Or giving them a Visa card for $50! I would find that to be so incredibly odd.

[Anonymous]

Listen to your instinct, OP. If something bothers you then don't ignore it, in such relationships decisions should be emotional not logical.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

That’s interesting. I love giving/getting gifts but I am not really demanding about it. I just appreciate them when they come and would be sad if my boyfriend never gave me gifts. But I am pretty happy with whatever I get and more than happy to just place and order for myself and call it a gift lol. It seems like a pretty small thing to do.

HOWEVER - I definitely know someone who was a complete psycho about gifts, even from children, who would lose it not only if they didn’t get a gift but if it wasn’t a good enough gift. But she was trouble in many other areas of life. The gift part was just one particularly bad example (since she ruined more than one Christmas).

OP kind of strikes me as the latter especially since she is complaining to everyone about it. Too much drama.

OP here. He gave me a sports bra and a stuffed animal last year and I was thrilled.

Wooow. You want to break up with him because you didn’t get the equivalent of a sports bra and a stuffed animal this year? It’s not about the gift (PASTA!)

I see you

[Anonymous]

This has to be a troll.