Harsh comment on being a Sahm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

Lol she told us she would rather play tennis. I doubt she spends her day doing chores. Everything is outsourced. But yes she is working so hard!

I missed where OP said everything is outsourced.
Everything?
All of the shopping and cooking?
All of the cleaning and laundry?
All of the home maintenance, repairs, and gardening?
All of the driving?
All of the planning and admin tasks?
All of the providing presence and emotional support?

Did OP hire a household manager who oversees the maids, gardener, cook, handyman, tutor, counselor, and driver?

You are missing the point. Even full-time WOTH moms manage to get this stuff done, right? And some WOTH moms seem to get this stuff done as well as, if not even better than some SAHMs.
Just *acknowledge* the reality because no smart kid is actually going to buy the excuse that SAHMs of teenagers are somehow doing a lot of meaningful work. And if you have a graduate degree, it's kind of shameful to not be working if you have teenagers without unusual circumstances. Teenagers are going to make these comments because they're at a point in their lives where there is a lot of pressure about colleges and careers, and if you have a remotely thinking teenagers, they're going to draw the perfectly logical conclusion that their SAH mom has a college (and perhaps even graduate) degree but doesn't need one for the kind of responsibilities that she has. And it's true. All the arguments about this is the choice that mom and dad made, mom does a lot of stuff for the household, mom already had a job before she had kids, etc., etc., are reasons for SAH, but give the fact that there are WOTH moms who manage to balance careers and family -- and seem to be doing perfectly fine with perfectly fine kids and families -- should raise the question in any teenager's mind, especially for girls, as to why they should bother aiming for a top college or thinking about careers if in the end their parents' actions show that they're not really necessary, or even desireable.

I know several SAHMs of teens in my neighborhood. They are nice, friendly, social and have interests, but objectively, they are not particularly "productive" members of society aside from some things they get done for the household that a lot of WOTH parents manage *also* to get done. I also know several WOTHs with careers that contribute to society in meaningful ways, and these WOTH moms manage to chauffeur their kids, make healthy meals, take care of household stuff, walk the dog, etc., etc. In my neighborhood, both types outsource housekeeping and some shopping (i.e., grocery delivery). I suspect the WOTH moms are more type-A and super organized. And the SAHMs are more disorganized, but less stressed. Interestingly, both have the same levels of education, with the exception of the moms with MDs -- they all work.

Ewww just stop. As a working mom I don’t want any association with this type of misogynistic crap. A person’s value is not determined by their employment status and if you think it is then you are probably one of those boring people who assumes your job is sooooo interesting and important. OP isn’t deserving of disrespect from her kids because she doesn’t sit in Teams meetings or circle back on things.

DP and +1 to all of this. Also, come on, you don't know the inner workings of your neighbors' households like this. Nobody knows how much their random neighbors' outsource versus do themselves, nor knows how chaotic, disorganized, and stressful their neighbors' households are. Time is finite -- having 40-50 hours back in one parent's week (i.e, not devoted to paid employment + commute) is going to make a meaningful difference in how most households function overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

1) We live in a capitalist society with few safety nets. Very few people in the US have the privilege of dismissing, as you do, the "capitalist kool-aid." Have you ever lived paycheck to paycheck? Have you ever had to decide between paying medical and utility bills? This is the reality for most of America.
2) Women with children are far, fare more likely to live in poverty than men. It is nowhere near misogynistic to educate women about the risks of having a man with a plan. And yes, even DCUM women can be at risk. You only need to browse the Relationships Forum to read about moms who have given up their careers and then blindsided by husbands who ask for divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

Lol she told us she would rather play tennis. I doubt she spends her day doing chores. Everything is outsourced. But yes she is working so hard!

I missed where OP said everything is outsourced.
Everything?
All of the shopping and cooking?
All of the cleaning and laundry?
All of the home maintenance, repairs, and gardening?
All of the driving?
All of the planning and admin tasks?
All of the providing presence and emotional support?

Did OP hire a household manager who oversees the maids, gardener, cook, handyman, tutor, counselor, and driver?

You are missing the point. Even full-time WOTH moms manage to get this stuff done, right? And some WOTH moms seem to get this stuff done as well as, if not even better than some SAHMs.
Just *acknowledge* the reality because no smart kid is actually going to buy the excuse that SAHMs of teenagers are somehow doing a lot of meaningful work. And if you have a graduate degree, it's kind of shameful to not be working if you have teenagers without unusual circumstances. Teenagers are going to make these comments because they're at a point in their lives where there is a lot of pressure about colleges and careers, and if you have a remotely thinking teenagers, they're going to draw the perfectly logical conclusion that their SAH mom has a college (and perhaps even graduate) degree but doesn't need one for the kind of responsibilities that she has. And it's true. All the arguments about this is the choice that mom and dad made, mom does a lot of stuff for the household, mom already had a job before she had kids, etc., etc., are reasons for SAH, but give the fact that there are WOTH moms who manage to balance careers and family -- and seem to be doing perfectly fine with perfectly fine kids and families -- should raise the question in any teenager's mind, especially for girls, as to why they should bother aiming for a top college or thinking about careers if in the end their parents' actions show that they're not really necessary, or even desireable.

I know several SAHMs of teens in my neighborhood. They are nice, friendly, social and have interests, but objectively, they are not particularly "productive" members of society aside from some things they get done for the household that a lot of WOTH parents manage *also* to get done. I also know several WOTHs with careers that contribute to society in meaningful ways, and these WOTH moms manage to chauffeur their kids, make healthy meals, take care of household stuff, walk the dog, etc., etc. In my neighborhood, both types outsource housekeeping and some shopping (i.e., grocery delivery). I suspect the WOTH moms are more type-A and super organized. And the SAHMs are more disorganized, but less stressed. Interestingly, both have the same levels of education, with the exception of the moms with MDs -- they all work.

Breaking your theory- many moms with MD stop working too.

Look it up - most MD moms return to work after maternity leave. Sorry to squash your anec-data...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

Lol she told us she would rather play tennis. I doubt she spends her day doing chores. Everything is outsourced. But yes she is working so hard!

I missed where OP said everything is outsourced.
Everything?
All of the shopping and cooking?
All of the cleaning and laundry?
All of the home maintenance, repairs, and gardening?
All of the driving?
All of the planning and admin tasks?
All of the providing presence and emotional support?

Did OP hire a household manager who oversees the maids, gardener, cook, handyman, tutor, counselor, and driver?

You are missing the point. Even full-time WOTH moms manage to get this stuff done, right? And some WOTH moms seem to get this stuff done as well as, if not even better than some SAHMs.
Just *acknowledge* the reality because no smart kid is actually going to buy the excuse that SAHMs of teenagers are somehow doing a lot of meaningful work. And if you have a graduate degree, it's kind of shameful to not be working if you have teenagers without unusual circumstances. Teenagers are going to make these comments because they're at a point in their lives where there is a lot of pressure about colleges and careers, and if you have a remotely thinking teenagers, they're going to draw the perfectly logical conclusion that their SAH mom has a college (and perhaps even graduate) degree but doesn't need one for the kind of responsibilities that she has. And it's true. All the arguments about this is the choice that mom and dad made, mom does a lot of stuff for the household, mom already had a job before she had kids, etc., etc., are reasons for SAH, but give the fact that there are WOTH moms who manage to balance careers and family -- and seem to be doing perfectly fine with perfectly fine kids and families -- should raise the question in any teenager's mind, especially for girls, as to why they should bother aiming for a top college or thinking about careers if in the end their parents' actions show that they're not really necessary, or even desireable.

I know several SAHMs of teens in my neighborhood. They are nice, friendly, social and have interests, but objectively, they are not particularly "productive" members of society aside from some things they get done for the household that a lot of WOTH parents manage *also* to get done. I also know several WOTHs with careers that contribute to society in meaningful ways, and these WOTH moms manage to chauffeur their kids, make healthy meals, take care of household stuff, walk the dog, etc., etc. In my neighborhood, both types outsource housekeeping and some shopping (i.e., grocery delivery). I suspect the WOTH moms are more type-A and super organized. And the SAHMs are more disorganized, but less stressed. Interestingly, both have the same levels of education, with the exception of the moms with MDs -- they all work.

Breaking your theory- many moms with MD stop working too.

Look it up - most MD moms return to work after maternity leave. Sorry to squash your anec-data...

DP. Ok, but would they say they have found the "balance" you spoke of? Did their spouses lean out? Do they outsource a ton? ...
Your statement about "there are working moms out there who have found balance" is a massive over-simplification. Many, many have not. Many, many working moms are deeply unhappy with their so-called "balance". A lot of those who are happy with their balance have leaned out or "mommy tracked". At that point, if their finances allow, the rational choice is often to step out of the workforce altogether. Unless said parent is wildy lazy, selfish, or depressed, usually the result is that the whole family benefits in numerous ways.

This is much too complicated for a teenager to understand, as evidenced by the fact that many grown adults here do not seem to grasp it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

This is the tween and teen forum. I don't know very many tween and teen parents who spend lots of time volunteering in kids' schools when the kids are that age. Parent volunteers are helpful when the kids are young, but really not beyond 3rd grade or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not usually a very strict parent, but if my 13 year old said that to me I would make them submit to a week where I: do not drive them anywhere, including their favorite sports and classes, make them take the school bus, make them make their own meals, stop cleaning the house or doing the dishes, and stop doing laundry. If they have no idea what adulting looks like, we need to show them.

The thing is that all this gets done if both parents work. It’s not like their friends who have working parents don’t play sports, wear clean clothes or have dinner. Talk to your child about the pros and cons of staying home and why it works for you and DH and it may or may not work for then if they have families.

dp..

They may have "clean" clothes and eat dinner, but not necessarily home cooked meals, or eat dinner together.

And those parents are probably way more stressed out, which translates into more stress at home. And/or they outsource a lot of stuff, including their meals.

-signed a wfh mom

Why is “clean” in quotations? Do you think working parents don’t actually do laundry or are you talking about yourself?

I work and my child has actual clean clothes available at all times and we eat a home cooked meal (that was cooked by me) every night. I also make most of our food from scratch including bread and snacks and keep a pretty clean house. Child also participates in activities including one sport per season, music class, and scouts.

Op, what do you actually do all day? I had a stay at home mom and I was pretty awful as a teenager but I always knew and had an appreciation for all the things my mom did for our family. Which was A LOT, not spending her day on Pilates. If you are a sahm who has a lot of help and spends your days perfecting your physique and relaxing it’s a pretty valid question to ask.

Lady, NO ONE CARES how you choose to live your life. Stop trying to have dick measuring contest with a bunch of random women and worry about yourself. It’s actually not a competition.

This x100
The right to choose is a right for all things

Asserting that working moms somehow also manage to keep their kids in clean clothes and fed is hardly a dick measuring contest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

Lol she told us she would rather play tennis. I doubt she spends her day doing chores. Everything is outsourced. But yes she is working so hard!

I missed where OP said everything is outsourced.
Everything?
All of the shopping and cooking?
All of the cleaning and laundry?
All of the home maintenance, repairs, and gardening?
All of the driving?
All of the planning and admin tasks?
All of the providing presence and emotional support?

Did OP hire a household manager who oversees the maids, gardener, cook, handyman, tutor, counselor, and driver?

You are missing the point. Even full-time WOTH moms manage to get this stuff done, right? And some WOTH moms seem to get this stuff done as well as, if not even better than some SAHMs.
Just *acknowledge* the reality because no smart kid is actually going to buy the excuse that SAHMs of teenagers are somehow doing a lot of meaningful work. And if you have a graduate degree, it's kind of shameful to not be working if you have teenagers without unusual circumstances. Teenagers are going to make these comments because they're at a point in their lives where there is a lot of pressure about colleges and careers, and if you have a remotely thinking teenagers, they're going to draw the perfectly logical conclusion that their SAH mom has a college (and perhaps even graduate) degree but doesn't need one for the kind of responsibilities that she has. And it's true. All the arguments about this is the choice that mom and dad made, mom does a lot of stuff for the household, mom already had a job before she had kids, etc., etc., are reasons for SAH, but give the fact that there are WOTH moms who manage to balance careers and family -- and seem to be doing perfectly fine with perfectly fine kids and families -- should raise the question in any teenager's mind, especially for girls, as to why they should bother aiming for a top college or thinking about careers if in the end their parents' actions show that they're not really necessary, or even desireable.

I know several SAHMs of teens in my neighborhood. They are nice, friendly, social and have interests, but objectively, they are not particularly "productive" members of society aside from some things they get done for the household that a lot of WOTH parents manage *also* to get done. I also know several WOTHs with careers that contribute to society in meaningful ways, and these WOTH moms manage to chauffeur their kids, make healthy meals, take care of household stuff, walk the dog, etc., etc. In my neighborhood, both types outsource housekeeping and some shopping (i.e., grocery delivery). I suspect the WOTH moms are more type-A and super organized. And the SAHMs are more disorganized, but less stressed. Interestingly, both have the same levels of education, with the exception of the moms with MDs -- they all work.

Breaking your theory- many moms with MD stop working too.

Look it up - most MD moms return to work after maternity leave. Sorry to squash your anec-data...

DP. Ok, but would they say they have found the "balance" you spoke of? Did their spouses lean out? Do they outsource a ton? ...
Your statement about "there are working moms out there who have found balance" is a massive over-simplification. Many, many have not. Many, many working moms are deeply unhappy with their so-called "balance". A lot of those who are happy with their balance have leaned out or "mommy tracked". At that point, if their finances allow, the rational choice is often to step out of the workforce altogether. Unless said parent is wildy lazy, selfish, or depressed, usually the result is that the whole family benefits in numerous ways.

This is much too complicated for a teenager to understand, as evidenced by the fact that many grown adults here do not seem to grasp it.

That is a major assumption. It's not black and white, you're either working 60 hour weeks or out of the workforce all together. Many MD moms are able to work part-time. And many professional women who have established seniority are able to demand the flexibility that teen kids may require. The struggle is hardest when kids are young. Most teenagers are busy and independent enough that they neither need nor want significant hands-on parental attention like they did when they were young children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

Lol she told us she would rather play tennis. I doubt she spends her day doing chores. Everything is outsourced. But yes she is working so hard!

I missed where OP said everything is outsourced.
Everything?
All of the shopping and cooking?
All of the cleaning and laundry?
All of the home maintenance, repairs, and gardening?
All of the driving?
All of the planning and admin tasks?
All of the providing presence and emotional support?

Did OP hire a household manager who oversees the maids, gardener, cook, handyman, tutor, counselor, and driver?

You are missing the point. Even full-time WOTH moms manage to get this stuff done, right? And some WOTH moms seem to get this stuff done as well as, if not even better than some SAHMs.
Just *acknowledge* the reality because no smart kid is actually going to buy the excuse that SAHMs of teenagers are somehow doing a lot of meaningful work. And if you have a graduate degree, it's kind of shameful to not be working if you have teenagers without unusual circumstances. Teenagers are going to make these comments because they're at a point in their lives where there is a lot of pressure about colleges and careers, and if you have a remotely thinking teenagers, they're going to draw the perfectly logical conclusion that their SAH mom has a college (and perhaps even graduate) degree but doesn't need one for the kind of responsibilities that she has. And it's true. All the arguments about this is the choice that mom and dad made, mom does a lot of stuff for the household, mom already had a job before she had kids, etc., etc., are reasons for SAH, but give the fact that there are WOTH moms who manage to balance careers and family -- and seem to be doing perfectly fine with perfectly fine kids and families -- should raise the question in any teenager's mind, especially for girls, as to why they should bother aiming for a top college or thinking about careers if in the end their parents' actions show that they're not really necessary, or even desireable.

I know several SAHMs of teens in my neighborhood. They are nice, friendly, social and have interests, but objectively, they are not particularly "productive" members of society aside from some things they get done for the household that a lot of WOTH parents manage *also* to get done. I also know several WOTHs with careers that contribute to society in meaningful ways, and these WOTH moms manage to chauffeur their kids, make healthy meals, take care of household stuff, walk the dog, etc., etc. In my neighborhood, both types outsource housekeeping and some shopping (i.e., grocery delivery). I suspect the WOTH moms are more type-A and super organized. And the SAHMs are more disorganized, but less stressed. Interestingly, both have the same levels of education, with the exception of the moms with MDs -- they all work.

Breaking your theory- many moms with MD stop working too.

Look it up - most MD moms return to work after maternity leave. Sorry to squash your anec-data...

DP. Ok, but would they say they have found the "balance" you spoke of? Did their spouses lean out? Do they outsource a ton? ...
Your statement about "there are working moms out there who have found balance" is a massive over-simplification. Many, many have not. Many, many working moms are deeply unhappy with their so-called "balance". A lot of those who are happy with their balance have leaned out or "mommy tracked". At that point, if their finances allow, the rational choice is often to step out of the workforce altogether. Unless said parent is wildy lazy, selfish, or depressed, usually the result is that the whole family benefits in numerous ways.

This is much too complicated for a teenager to understand, as evidenced by the fact that many grown adults here do not seem to grasp it.

That is a major assumption. It's not black and white, you're either working 60 hour weeks or out of the workforce all together. Many MD moms are able to work part-time. And many professional women who have established seniority are able to demand the flexibility that teen kids may require. The struggle is hardest when kids are young. Most teenagers are busy and independent enough that they neither need nor want significant hands-on parental attention like they did when they were young children.

You're contradicting yourself. In order to establish the seniority/flexibility by the time the kids are teens the woman needs to work the demanding hours/schedule when the kids are young and do need the significant parental attention; so, in your words, precisely "when the struggle is the hardest"?? Makes no sense.

And is OP's 13 year old the oldest of the three?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

This is the tween and teen forum. I don't know very many tween and teen parents who spend lots of time volunteering in kids' schools when the kids are that age. Parent volunteers are helpful when the kids are young, but really not beyond 3rd grade or so.

There's a lot more to volunteering than helping out at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

This is the tween and teen forum. I don't know very many tween and teen parents who spend lots of time volunteering in kids' schools when the kids are that age. Parent volunteers are helpful when the kids are young, but really not beyond 3rd grade or so.

There's a lot more to volunteering than helping out at school.

Such as? Enlighten us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I can totally relate. I graduated from college making more money than my husband got my masters degree etc. but at one point decided to be a SAHM for personal reasons. The other day I told my daughter she needed to reign back on the Starbucks as it’s connected to our credit card and she said it’s not even YOUR money it’s Dad‘s. Oh hell, no!

Wow, truth hurts, lol!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I can totally relate. I graduated from college making more money than my husband got my masters degree etc. but at one point decided to be a SAHM for personal reasons. The other day I told my daughter she needed to reign back on the Starbucks as it’s connected to our credit card and she said it’s not even YOUR money it’s Dad‘s. Oh hell, no!

Wow, truth hurts, lol!!

I don’t think I ever said it out loud but I definitely thought it as a teenager!