DEI at Michigan--NYT article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

I find your input easy to dismiss. You have added nothing new that hasn’t been said before. Your personal beliefs as a white lady are irrelevant and uninteresting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Read my post at 1156.

PP. I agree with you that DEI has become an industry and that's offputting. But I happen to have been exposed to some positive DEI initiatives that were organic, appreciated, not full of guilt-ridden Karens, not cynical exercises, not involving book clubs, etc.

Like:

https://greatlakescivilityproject.com/
https://www.romi.gov/1707/Hamer-Finch-Wilkins-Park

I think your 11:56 views are best addressed to people you feel are internalizing a victim mentality. You could choose to make a positive difference in a different way. Maybe by speaking convincingly about your views and experience about the right path. I bet you could find a lot more productive places to advocate for your philosophy (high school career days) vs. DCUM.

What gives you the idea that I don't? That is a bold assumption. It was one post on DCUM, I am very active with young adults in various positive ways. My point about us fixing our communities ourselves I take very seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

If you claim greater standing because of your connection to Michigan and dismiss others without as randos you are not understanding that, although the specific subject of the article is Michigan, the broader discussion is whether this style of program is an effective use of societal resources to address what most of us see as an issue.

PP. OP's title is "DEI at Michigan". Many who responded early were specifically discussing Michigan.

An argument could be made that the spend at Michigan was "too much". And the results were ineffective.

However, I think it's a real stretch to assume that Michigan's spend/experience/liberal track record means that "DEI failure at Michigan" is highly relevant/extrapolatable to general society.

For one thing, quite often large initiatives are decided upon and sustained by just a few leaders (CEOs and the like).

For another, the number of apps keeps rising. Whatever's going on, it's certainly not discouraging people from wanting to study at Michigan.

And another thing...what falls under DEI is relatively institution-specific and geography/demography specific. I personally would not use findings from a study of Michigan to make guesses about how UC schools should approach their communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Read my post at 1156.

PP. I agree with you that DEI has become an industry and that's offputting. But I happen to have been exposed to some positive DEI initiatives that were organic, appreciated, not full of guilt-ridden Karens, not cynical exercises, not involving book clubs, etc.

Like:

https://greatlakescivilityproject.com/
https://www.romi.gov/1707/Hamer-Finch-Wilkins-Park

I think your 11:56 views are best addressed to people you feel are internalizing a victim mentality. You could choose to make a positive difference in a different way. Maybe by speaking convincingly about your views and experience about the right path. I bet you could find a lot more productive places to advocate for your philosophy (high school career days) vs. DCUM.

What gives you the idea that I don't? That is a bold assumption. It was one post on DCUM, I am very active with young adults in various positive ways. My point about us fixing our communities ourselves I take very seriously.

PP. I'm glad to hear that. I appreciate people who individually act to help others. I don't like that you brought terms like whitesplaining and white knight into what I feel was an incorrect analysis of my motives for posting. It makes me not want to try to be a better, fairer person. Just to concentrate on my own family and what's best for me. But you don't want to focus on feelings or hear me talking so I will end here. I have said quite a lot in this thread. Time for others to speak their piece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

DEI is breeding resentment and making this country evenmore divisive.

No, the very fine republicans are butthurt that we are no longer automatically putting people on a pedestal just because they are old, white Christian wealthy males.

This is about republicans. It was an article in the New York Times about liberal Michigan students for goodness sake.

No, the comment was around who was “breeding resentment and making this country even more divisive.”

No it wasn’t. “DEI is breeding resentment and making this country evenmore divisive.“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

+1

I’ll take them doing something imperfectly over doing nothing.

Yeah - not at the cost and reach of these programs. “Trying” is not good enough for billions spent.

Meh. Many of the top schools were built and funded by the blood and sweat of black people.

They can spend a tiny fraction of their massive endowments to give it a go.

It’s not a tiny fraction. Did you read the article? There aren’t funds for things like parking because of these initiatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You lost me at "Heritage Foundation study."

Talk about a group that has an agenda.

So this is what has become of the Times.
Thanks, OP. You seem to be busy this morning with your outrage theater.

+1 million

It’s worth noting that the Heritage Foundation’s official position on the fairytale “widespread voter” fraud lie promoted by the MAGAs is that the lie is true, and the reason that nobody — including the Heritage Foundation, who previously correctly called this a lie — has found any evidence of fraud is that the (mostly Black) people doing the fraud are “really tricky.”

The Heritage Foundation is all in on ending American democracy via the big lie. There should be no conversation about anything involving the Heritage Foundation other than asking why they are trying to overthrow the American system of government.

The very people whining about Heritage Foundation in this thread admitted they didn’t read the article, so it’s not worth even discussing that. Screaming Heritage Foundation and MAGA isn’t responding to the points in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

+1

I’ll take them doing something imperfectly over doing nothing.

Yeah - not at the cost and reach of these programs. “Trying” is not good enough for billions spent.

Meh. Many of the top schools were built and funded by the blood and sweat of black people.

They can spend a tiny fraction of their massive endowments to give it a go.

It’s not a tiny fraction. Did you read the article? There aren’t funds for things like parking because of these initiatives.

People can walk to the Arb with their legs.

America also wastes big money on parking.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

I find your input easy to dismiss. You have added nothing new that hasn’t been said before. Your personal beliefs as a white lady are irrelevant and uninteresting.

Remind me why you are on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

I find your input easy to dismiss. You have added nothing new that hasn’t been said before. Your personal beliefs as a white lady are irrelevant and uninteresting.

Remind me why you are on DCUM?

+1 it’s odd this person things that because they don’t support DEI they think they can silence the opinions of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus, Joseph, and Mary. $250 million on DEI bullcrap. Imagine how many scholarships that money could have paid for, how many professors' salaries or research initiatives. What a waste.

So wasteful. They will realize soon enough, though. They have a massive problem on their hands. It comes in the form of their students.

OP here.

The craziest part of the article is that NO ONE seems to benefit from Michigan's DEI initiative.

Black students feel that they haven't benefitted.

Professors are living in fear.

Vast amounts of money spent, and it's had absolutely no measurable benefit.

Well the DEI employees are probably benefitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

DEI is breeding resentment and making this country evenmore divisive.

No, the very fine republicans are butthurt that we are no longer automatically putting people on a pedestal just because they are old, white Christian wealthy males.

This is about republicans. It was an article in the New York Times about liberal Michigan students for goodness sake.

No, the comment was around who was “breeding resentment and making this country even more divisive.”

No it wasn’t. “DEI is breeding resentment and making this country evenmore divisive.“

Tbf any discussion on race seems to offend white students today. Republicans are enforcing not teaching slavery because it “blames white people” and makes students feel sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

I find your input easy to dismiss. You have added nothing new that hasn’t been said before. Your personal beliefs as a white lady are irrelevant and uninteresting.

Remind me why you are on DCUM?

+1 it’s odd this person things that because they don’t support DEI they think they can silence the opinions of others.

NP- I read through the previous, didn't see anything about silencing. Just stating that they find it easy to dismiss their input and that they found it irrelevant and uninteresting which is, of course, their opinion. That is far rom thinking they can "silence" someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jesus, Joseph, and Mary. $250 million on DEI bullcrap. Imagine how many scholarships that money could have paid for, how many professors' salaries or research initiatives. What a waste.

WTF 250 MILLION!!!

The entire football program from soup to nuts is about $50 million/year.

So DEI cost almost as much as their football program?

I doubt it was generating as much revenue as their football program?

[Anonymous]

DEI has a couple of components. It can mean quotas/affirmative action, especially when there is an emphasis on leadership positions formerly left out of these programs. This is now illegal. It can mean programming and policies like trainings, speaker series, red tape and grievance processes, etc. The article suggests that this type of DEI is ineffective or counterproductive. Lastly, DEI broadly functions as a patronage/jobs program for minorities and especially white women who fill out the administrator, consultant, trainer rules demanded by the preceding meanings. But if the activities they're employed for are illegal, ineffectual or even harmful, it seems like a bad use of resources.

I don't like racism but I am hard pressed to see anything of value in DEI. Doing nothing is absolutely an option when the alternative is a net sink of resources.