DEI at Michigan--NYT article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I srill just can't believe "Dei" stopped meaning "God." After a thousand years of Latin Mass it has been erased by the internet

Oh no, not everyone is Catholic or understands Latin, what terrible times we live in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

+1

I’ll take them doing something imperfectly over doing nothing.

But it makes things worse rather than better. Anybody surprised that trying to cultivate equality by giving preference to certain groups doesn’t work?

A lot of DEI initiatives are what I consider informational/educational/culturally-sensitive outreach. They do not relate in any way to admission or employment processes. Michigan's admission practices have been subject to a lot of legal scrutiny and even state law over the past 20 years. So the reviewed initiatives could be considered inefficient or ineffective outreach but they are not "preference". My family's not bothered if there's extra efforts to recruit low-income kids. Our family came from that kind of background but now we don't need help to get on the UMC train.

Also I'm white and I'm painfully aware from remarks made in my presence that a lot of white people don't want to study any material related to controversial topics. And many find DEI topics controversial. Foreign languages and cultures also are a tough sell for many mainstream Americans.

I think the required race & ethnicity distribution class at Michigan has a wide variety of topics and anyone can find a class they are comfortable with. I believe I remember classes on Detroit car culture, Polish immigration to the US, basic anthropology electives, etc. There are also some peer-facilitated dialogue classes for people who want to have constructive conversations and feel brave enough to try.

I do regret that the NYT interviewed black students at Michigan feel unwelcome/not comfortable in this current era. I did not get that impression from my black peers in the MBA program in parent times. I can say however, that I was surprised to be one of the only white students attending the Black Business Students' Conference during my school years. It was excellent. Just like other "diversity" conferences I attended during my MBA - the Michigan Business Women's leadership conference, the Asian business students' international-themed conference, and the Students for Responsible Business/Net Impact conference.

I was very impressed with my classmates at Michigan. Would do it all over again, and now my oldest is a freshman. We get no merit aid or financial aid but in-state costs are reasonable by national standards and much cheaper than out of state flagships with some merit aid. WL at DC's only Ivy of interest so could not test the assertion that Ivies can be cheaper than flagships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

+1

I’ll take them doing something imperfectly over doing nothing.

But it makes things worse rather than better. Anybody surprised that trying to cultivate equality by giving preference to certain groups doesn’t work?

Will everything be better all of the time? No, of course not. Are we moving the ship in the right direction? Yes.

Given how so many different groups have been silenced and oppressed since forever it’s great that we opening up these conversations and listening to groups who historically haven’t had a voice.

We are in the “storming” stage of a new “group”.

I agree PP. I do think things will be a lot better in about 2 decades.

[Anonymous]

No wonder it failed.

They were doing Diversity Equity Inclusion.

They need to do Diversity Equity Inclusion Belonging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Agree but the point of this article is that these expensive DEI programs are not it. I personally HATE these types of programs- and honestly I feel they primarily benefit the people who run them- but I very much support diversity. I just don’t think this is the way to get there.

This. Intervention should be aimed at K8. The earlier the intervention, the better. College should be, primarily, a meritocracy.

It’s never too late for people to learn about being inclusive. Definitely some DCUM posters would be benefit from some DEI awareness.

+100 The irony of bashing DEI programs while not fully understanding the issues is profound.

Read the article. Feelings of inclusion were exactly what were negatively impacted by Michigan’s (expensive!) programs. You can’t just mouth words like inclusion and belonging without evidence to back up that the programs actually inspire such a community.

For centuries, white men fought to maintain the status quo. I’m ok if some feathers get ruffled while we sort this out. It’s not all unicorns and rainbows.

What you just wrote has zero to do with the conversation at hand which was about measuring the impact of DEI programs on campus feelings of belonging and inclusion. You’re avoiding the topic.

Did you read the article? Rigid "Measurement" is oppressive Whiteness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay so takeaway is:

Michigan = bad
Don't let your kids apply to it.




Please

Right? As a Michigan parent, this is not going to matter. Michigan is still (like all the other top schools) going to be a huge prize. My kid is having the time of his life and getting a great education. People are always thrilled for him that he got in and is there. This article isn't changing anything.

He may be assumed to be a "DEI" grad by potential employers.

Yes, we lie awake nights concerned about our white, top grades, econ major kid being pigeon-holed in this manor.
But seriously, as others have posted, we have no regrets about part of the tuition money we've spent going to fund this experiment (if it even has - didn't see where the funds came from). Race relations in this country are fraught and complicated and Michigan is at least trying.

Having a manor is a privilege.

[Anonymous]

DEI programs are a soft and fuzzy form of preparation. Jon creation for marginalized minorities. I'm OK with that concept. But of course it gets hijacked by white women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

+1 Ignoring the issue isn’t going to solve anything. Racism still exists and therefore needs to be addressed. It’s an uncomfortable conversation that clearly touches a lot of nerves which means we have work to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Read my post at 1156.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You lost me at "Heritage Foundation study."

Talk about a group that has an agenda.

So this is what has become of the Times.
Thanks, OP. You seem to be busy this morning with your outrage theater.

+1 million

It’s worth noting that the Heritage Foundation’s official position on the fairytale “widespread voter” fraud lie promoted by the MAGAs is that the lie is true, and the reason that nobody — including the Heritage Foundation, who previously correctly called this a lie — has found any evidence of fraud is that the (mostly Black) people doing the fraud are “really tricky.”

The Heritage Foundation is all in on ending American democracy via the big lie. There should be no conversation about anything involving the Heritage Foundation other than asking why they are trying to overthrow the American system of government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Actually most people here read the article and want to discuss it not hear your general feelings about DEI. It’s hard to support failing initiatives that don’t even help or support the people they were designed for, ie the non white people in the article who had opinions that are very different than yours. Maybe read the article and come back later.

PP. I read the whole article. I am providing relevant, complementary info and context.

It's hardly useful to use a thread about an article to say "See, I always knew DEI was bad".

I feel that there are actually relatively few actual professors and students cited in the article. Out of the thousands of possibly impacted people.

Although I agree a lot of time and effort was spent to write the article, I do not implicitly trust that the student leaders speak for all of their group.

I want to hear more concerning the issues raised. From people who have facts and direct experience with Michigan, not just randos with opinions. That could include more from the persons cited in the article.

If you claim greater standing because of your connection to Michigan and dismiss others without as randos you are not understanding that, although the specific subject of the article is Michigan, the broader discussion is whether this style of program is an effective use of societal resources to address what most of us see as an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm X was right, guilt ridden UMC white libs are the worst. Always "whitesplaining" to us black "folk" cause it makes them "feels" good to be the white knight. As a black person reading some of these posts it's really something to behold.

Actually I believe most of the posters here are white people talking to other white people to convince them of their views. Me included. I understand you personally don't support these initiatives, don't find them helpful, and don't think white people should be talking about this. I did hear your opinion. I am here to share mine. After all, I'm a tuition paying parent. So my opinion is more relevant than a rando DEI opponent.

I'm fine with criticism. I agree ineffective things were done. But there are things of value that were done as well.

Many people are pointing out that talking about problems and feelings makes things openly worse. I agree that can be true. But the alternative can be one-sided heavily negative outcomes for one group while the other goes blissfully about their lives.

Read my post at 1156.

PP. I agree with you that DEI has become an industry and that's offputting. But I happen to have been exposed to some positive DEI initiatives that were organic, appreciated, not full of guilt-ridden Karens, not cynical exercises, not involving book clubs, etc.

Like:

https://greatlakescivilityproject.com/
https://www.romi.gov/1707/Hamer-Finch-Wilkins-Park

I think your 11:56 views are best addressed to people you feel are internalizing a victim mentality. You could choose to make a positive difference in a different way. Maybe by speaking convincingly about your views and experience about the right path. I bet you could find a lot more productive places to advocate for your philosophy (high school career days) vs. DCUM.