Bill Maher explains the Middle East to Gen Z: Can anyone really dispute the facts?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

Because that’s what it is to be a Zionist. Arrogantly picking and choosing what suits them.

You can apparently be an atheist who suddenly picks and chooses parts of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. And more audaciously, ignoring life before the Bible or religion; that’s some chutzpah from an atheist.

That’s why Maher has always been pathetic and a clown along with the countless other high profile atheists who all seem to be rabid Zionists as well. When people say he mocks all religions, that’s bullsh*t. He specifically mocks only the Jews who follow the Torah and say Israel is not even supposed to be created until the Messiah comes.

People need to really question their own intelligence if they thought this stupid segment sans any actual debate (like every single time he bloviates on this topic) was “fact-based.”

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't want peace in Israel/Palestine. People who think like you have rejected peace again and again over the last 50+ years. And it comes from your societal norms. Where is Palestine's Gandhi or MLK? Do you have any peacemakers?

NP. Palestinians don’t need to kiss your ass. The nerve of you. Personally, I have no horse in this race, and I wish both Israeli and Palestinians would ride off into the sunset, but the idea that Palestinians owe you peacemaking is bananas. You stole their land and are committing genocide against them. The only they owe you is the same in return.

The Palestinians could live in a peaceful prosperous nation if only they didn't listen to people like you. There certainly are far right extremists on the Israelis side, just like the far right Arab extremists like you. This is a battle between far right extremist warmongers. I wish there were actual gen Z on this thread to witness that.

You sound like white people who like to tell me, a Black woman, what “The Blacks” need to do better. Kiss my ass and kiss Palestinians’ asses too. When you steal people’s ancestral land, cram them into open-air prisons, and deliberately make life as miserable for them as possible, you deserve however they respond. I have more important concerns
than Israel/Palestine and am not under any illusions that either Israelis or Palestinians GAF about my Black behind, but Zionists really need to stop lying to themselves. You started this fight, perpetuated it, and no one
wants to hear your mouth running. We’re all rooting for the Palestinians to turn the tables on you colonizers.

This is a mural that was in Gaza before it was destroyed.

Zionists want to play victim in this occupation based on what white Christians in Europe did to them. They use what Europeans have done to Jews for eons and project it onto Palestinians who had nothing to do with it. Even Netanyahu absolved Hitler and tried to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust. That's how despicable you have to be to defend what Israel does :

Well, look at that. Palestinian lives matter to my Black self, too, honey. Everyone who isn’t a liar knows that stealing Palestinian land to settle Europe wrongs was an evil deed. Stay strong. It took almost 300 years just to end slavery in America. The road might be long and arduous, but justice prevails. I believe we will see Palestinians back in your rightful place one day.

While I agree it was poor planning to plop down a bunch of Jewish people in the middle of Arab nations—and even worse to forcibly displace some—can you agree that all the billions of dollars in aid in support of building a civilized state over the last several decades could have resulted in a successful nation if only religious extremists hadn’t opted to squander the money on terrorism (I mean, the money left over once the leaders hadn’t taken millions off the top for themselves and their families who are living large far from the mess they created)?

If we can both agree that both sides are in the wrong, then maybe there is hope. This shouldn’t be hard unless you have a bias.

Jews weren’t just plopped into a bunch of Arab states. They were always there.

But ok. This thread just proves Maher’s point.

I was being overly simplistic and flip—largely in an effort to indulge the pp who clearly thinks Muslims were there first and Jewish people arrived post-WWII to randomly build Israel in a place they have no right to be.

Like Maher, I am fully aware that the Jews were there first and have always been in the region. Regardless, people were forcibly displaced to create Israel. That’s a fact, and I think the pp needs to hear others own that.

^^^
That’s my good faith effort to engage in a serious dialogue where we recognize both sides have done bad things and neither side is perfect.

Who were there before the Jews? Or do you think the Jews were the very first?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

Because that’s what it is to be a Zionist. Arrogantly picking and choosing what suits them.

You can apparently be an atheist who suddenly picks and chooses parts of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. And more audaciously, ignoring life before the Bible or religion; that’s some chutzpah from an atheist.

That’s why Maher has always been pathetic and a clown along with the countless other high profile atheists who all seem to be rabid Zionists as well. When people say he mocks all religions, that’s bullsh*t. He specifically mocks only the Jews who follow the Torah and say Israel is not even supposed to be created until the Messiah comes.

People need to really question their own intelligence if they thought this stupid segment sans any actual debate (like every single time he bloviates on this topic) was “fact-based.”

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't want peace in Israel/Palestine. People who think like you have rejected peace again and again over the last 50+ years. And it comes from your societal norms. Where is Palestine's Gandhi or MLK? Do you have any peacemakers?

NP. Palestinians don’t need to kiss your ass. The nerve of you. Personally, I have no horse in this race, and I wish both Israeli and Palestinians would ride off into the sunset, but the idea that Palestinians owe you peacemaking is bananas. You stole their land and are committing genocide against them. The only they owe you is the same in return.

The Palestinians could live in a peaceful prosperous nation if only they didn't listen to people like you. There certainly are far right extremists on the Israelis side, just like the far right Arab extremists like you. This is a battle between far right extremist warmongers. I wish there were actual gen Z on this thread to witness that.

You sound like white people who like to tell me, a Black woman, what “The Blacks” need to do better. Kiss my ass and kiss Palestinians’ asses too. When you steal people’s ancestral land, cram them into open-air prisons, and deliberately make life as miserable for them as possible, you deserve however they respond. I have more important concerns
than Israel/Palestine and am not under any illusions that either Israelis or Palestinians GAF about my Black behind, but Zionists really need to stop lying to themselves. You started this fight, perpetuated it, and no one
wants to hear your mouth running. We’re all rooting for the Palestinians to turn the tables on you colonizers.

This is a mural that was in Gaza before it was destroyed.

Zionists want to play victim in this occupation based on what white Christians in Europe did to them. They use what Europeans have done to Jews for eons and project it onto Palestinians who had nothing to do with it. Even Netanyahu absolved Hitler and tried to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust. That's how despicable you have to be to defend what Israel does :

Well, look at that. Palestinian lives matter to my Black self, too, honey. Everyone who isn’t a liar knows that stealing Palestinian land to settle Europe wrongs was an evil deed. Stay strong. It took almost 300 years just to end slavery in America. The road might be long and arduous, but justice prevails. I believe we will see Palestinians back in your rightful place one day.

While I agree it was poor planning to plop down a bunch of Jewish people in the middle of Arab nations—and even worse to forcibly displace some—can you agree that all the billions of dollars in aid in support of building a civilized state over the last several decades could have resulted in a successful nation if only religious extremists hadn’t opted to squander the money on terrorism (I mean, the money left over once the leaders hadn’t taken millions off the top for themselves and their families who are living large far from the mess they created)?

If we can both agree that both sides are in the wrong, then maybe there is hope. This shouldn’t be hard unless you have a bias.

And your bias is one when you're pull the tiresome "both sides" nonsense ignoring what has been happening in the West Bank for years. You can bleat about "religious extremism" all you want, but it won't change the fact that it's violent Jewish ones responsible for what has happened in the WB and the Israeli govt encourages it

Just to be clear: you simply believe only Israel is at fault and deserves whatever religious extremist terrorists do…always?

And you don’t have any issue with religious extremists who are dedicated to destroying Israel, all Jewish people, America, and the West? (ICYMI: that’s the standard terrorist mantra.)

I just can’t understand how anyone—regardless of race, religion, or ethnicity—can brush past the role of terrorism and religious extremism…particularly Americans.

^^^
This is the sort of dialogue that prompts people to worry that far too many might actually support religious extremism (at least when it comes to a certain religion). Wowza.

Your definition of clear appears to be a swamp. Nothing you said resembles what I said.

When you talk about terrorism and start at Hamas or Palestinian in general, then you've already lost credibility. You don't get to arbitrarily ignore what you want to then decide WHEN terrorism started. If you genuinely cared about terrorism, why won't you accept that it was brought to Palestine by Zionist Jews and that several of their PMs and countless Knesset members were/are literal terrorists?

I’ve been clear that terrorists are to blame and I’ve never labeled all Palestinians or Muslims as terrorists.

The more I hear, the more concerned I am that some aren’t able to realize who the terrorists are and why religious extremism is dangerous.

Based on your pp, it seems like you think terrorism is simply self-defense or otherwise justified.

Rational people with no dog in this fight can quickly identify terrorism and recognize that religious fueled violence (particularly when death is the goal) is never ever cool. Moreover, the grip they have over women and children and the lack of basic human rights are dangerous. Deadly in fact. And that’s the real enemy.

If you can’t acknowledge that, then you are biased to the point of delusion.

Not PP, but "religious fueled violence (particularly when death is the goal) is never ever cool" = agreed

But isn't this clearly the case for the West Bank settlers too? So why is the Palestinian side called "terrorists" and the other side gets labeled "settlers" like they are western pioneers moving into open land. It's this disconnect that bothers me and many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

Because that’s what it is to be a Zionist. Arrogantly picking and choosing what suits them.

You can apparently be an atheist who suddenly picks and chooses parts of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. And more audaciously, ignoring life before the Bible or religion; that’s some chutzpah from an atheist.

That’s why Maher has always been pathetic and a clown along with the countless other high profile atheists who all seem to be rabid Zionists as well. When people say he mocks all religions, that’s bullsh*t. He specifically mocks only the Jews who follow the Torah and say Israel is not even supposed to be created until the Messiah comes.

People need to really question their own intelligence if they thought this stupid segment sans any actual debate (like every single time he bloviates on this topic) was “fact-based.”

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't want peace in Israel/Palestine. People who think like you have rejected peace again and again over the last 50+ years. And it comes from your societal norms. Where is Palestine's Gandhi or MLK? Do you have any peacemakers?

NP. Palestinians don’t need to kiss your ass. The nerve of you. Personally, I have no horse in this race, and I wish both Israeli and Palestinians would ride off into the sunset, but the idea that Palestinians owe you peacemaking is bananas. You stole their land and are committing genocide against them. The only they owe you is the same in return.

The Palestinians could live in a peaceful prosperous nation if only they didn't listen to people like you. There certainly are far right extremists on the Israelis side, just like the far right Arab extremists like you. This is a battle between far right extremist warmongers. I wish there were actual gen Z on this thread to witness that.

You sound like white people who like to tell me, a Black woman, what “The Blacks” need to do better. Kiss my ass and kiss Palestinians’ asses too. When you steal people’s ancestral land, cram them into open-air prisons, and deliberately make life as miserable for them as possible, you deserve however they respond. I have more important concerns
than Israel/Palestine and am not under any illusions that either Israelis or Palestinians GAF about my Black behind, but Zionists really need to stop lying to themselves. You started this fight, perpetuated it, and no one
wants to hear your mouth running. We’re all rooting for the Palestinians to turn the tables on you colonizers.

This is a mural that was in Gaza before it was destroyed.

Zionists want to play victim in this occupation based on what white Christians in Europe did to them. They use what Europeans have done to Jews for eons and project it onto Palestinians who had nothing to do with it. Even Netanyahu absolved Hitler and tried to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust. That's how despicable you have to be to defend what Israel does :

Well, look at that. Palestinian lives matter to my Black self, too, honey. Everyone who isn’t a liar knows that stealing Palestinian land to settle Europe wrongs was an evil deed. Stay strong. It took almost 300 years just to end slavery in America. The road might be long and arduous, but justice prevails. I believe we will see Palestinians back in your rightful place one day.

While I agree it was poor planning to plop down a bunch of Jewish people in the middle of Arab nations—and even worse to forcibly displace some—can you agree that all the billions of dollars in aid in support of building a civilized state over the last several decades could have resulted in a successful nation if only religious extremists hadn’t opted to squander the money on terrorism (I mean, the money left over once the leaders hadn’t taken millions off the top for themselves and their families who are living large far from the mess they created)?

If we can both agree that both sides are in the wrong, then maybe there is hope. This shouldn’t be hard unless you have a bias.

Jews weren’t just plopped into a bunch of Arab states. They were always there.

But ok. This thread just proves Maher’s point.

I was being overly simplistic and flip—largely in an effort to indulge the pp who clearly thinks Muslims were there first and Jewish people arrived post-WWII to randomly build Israel in a place they have no right to be.

Like Maher, I am fully aware that the Jews were there first and have always been in the region. Regardless, people were forcibly displaced to create Israel. That’s a fact, and I think the pp needs to hear others own that.

^^^
That’s my good faith effort to engage in a serious dialogue where we recognize both sides have done bad things and neither side is perfect.

Who were there before the Jews? Or do you think the Jews were the very first?

Here’s the thing:

I don’t care who was there first. People who don’t have a bias or don’t have a dog in this fight aren’t fixated on who was there first. It doesn’t matter.

The reality is lots of people were there at some point. There’s a history as to why everyone wants to stake claim on *their* holy land. My two cents: I don’t care.

All that matters is now and what can be done to make things better. Personally, I don’t see a path to peace if we can’t recognize that a religious extremist regime isn’t capable of coexistence—and isn’t capable of working towards basic human rights.

Do you agree? If not, you aren’t equipped to have a dispassionate conversation.

[Anonymous]

Maher has officially hit old man status. College kids protest stuff, see the 70s and Vietnam.

[Anonymous]

What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

So you are just brushing past all the posts where people say both sides have blood on their hands, both sides are guilty of atrocities, etc. to frame your narrative that everyone was brainwashed to support Israel?

Again: no dog in this fight. Israel has blood on its hands, too.

But for whatever reason you simply cannot admit that religious fueled terrorism in countries surrounding Israel presents an issue that must be resolved in order to work toward peace. Tell me, how do you suggest we fix this mess? Let’s assume everyone agrees Israel is 100% to blame since it’s in rotini (or the dawn of time). Now what? What will magically make the “death to Israel/jews/america/the west” stop? Bonus points if you can assure me women and the lgbtq community and basically anyone who doesn’t adhere to a specific brand of religion and cultural norms will enjoy equality.

It’s nearly 2025. How can you ignore the underlying issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

You're right, I'm not done. One more just for you: I'm Palestinian. That you --the actual random poster-- tell me I don't know what I know *first hand* how Israel operates or the lies I know are lies, is *chefskiss*

You'll forgive me if I don't go along with "Middle East experts" like Bill Maher or I'm sure all the ones you're thinking of who happen to be western Zionists. Nothing funnier than being lectured by people who think it's perfectly normal watching roundtables with no actual Middle Eastern people. Nicolle Wallace discussing the Middle East with two "Mideast experts" like: Johnathan Greenblatt and Donny Deutsche.

List your experts who aren't part of "thinktanks" that are clearly pro-Israel. I doubt any are actually Arab and NOT on the payroll. Forget it, because I don;t even care what you think.

Now I am done. Won't even read your reply.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you don't go along with 'Middle East Experts". You just choose to not listen to them at all.

KInd of a neat world, yours is. If you don't see it, then it didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

The Ottomans terrorized Jews? Ottomans, who only came into being in the early 1300s???? And who got the start of their Empire predominantly in the Balkans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher has never hidden his hatred of Muslims. It’s hard to like them because of their backwards treatment of women and.violent tendencies but he goes overboard so his speech was biased.

Israel has always had to defend themselves against hateful Arab countries who wouldn’t just leave them alone. But this time israel crossed the line. They are killing thousands of civilians on a daily basis for the chance to kill one Hamas leader. Killing and maiming children and their mothers will only feed new members for Hamas. Our country had an increase in people joining the armed services after 9/11. Hamas will see new members from the countless teen boys who have seen their little sister crushed by a building or even their whole family wiped out by a bomb. Who wouldn’t hate the country that did that. This isn’t the way to an agreement.

The first part is simplistic nonsense. You wrote that with a straight face? Do you even know anything about the Jewish Terrorist groups that started invading in the 20s?

Actual historians know Israel itself started every war. The "hateful Arabs" where you clearly envision us as some cartoonish stereotype with scimitars and screaming for Jewish blood, is bullsh*t. Suez Canal. Start there. The USS Liberty did not happen by accident. It was an intentional attempt at provocation which Americans simply ignore because it would hurt their beautiful minds to deal in a reality they've been trained to dismiss.

You should put an emoticon with a tin foil hat on every post you do.

DP

Poster hits the target dead on with facts and your only response is to accuse of them of being a conspiracy theorist?

Zionist, checks out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

As an American who is neither Jewish nor Muslim, I couldn’t care less about ancient history when it comes to who has dibs on the land. Rather, I care about what’s happening right now.

Re: the UN approved borders - I believe borders matter. I also recognize it’s really tough to live alongside countries where terrorists dedicated to your eradication live. Seems like that might prompt you to create a buffer for your security…and perhaps overcompensate to control the border…especially if you know Iran is sneaking in trucks and weapons via big tunnels from Egypt.

To be fair, I also recognize it sucks for the innocent Palestinians and Lebanese people who are caught up in this brutal war thanks to the religious extremism that fuels terrorists funded by Iran. The reality is the violence still would have happened even if Israel never expanded its borders. Terrorists aren’t motivated by borders: they just want Israel and its people gone…and they feel just as strongly about America and the West.

As an American, that last bit is the piece that worries me. Moreover, I’m confused why it doesn’t concern all Americans. I’m not ride or die for Israel. I’m not anti-Palestinian. I just wish there was a way to wave a magic wand to move all religious extremists to evolve. If everyone could embrace basic human rights and religious freedom and terrorism disappeared, the Middle East might have a chance at peace. Debating ancient or even recent history or borders won’t fix the real problem. If you can’t recognize the real issue is religious extremism, then we can’t really have a productive conversation.

I also don't think ancient history matters, but that was the premise of the Maher video. Did you watch it?

I agree that religious extremism is at fault (in fact, I think religion has done way more harm than good throughout history, but I'm a 3rd generation atheist).

But my questions are to the folks that agree that Maher presented facts. I'm trying to understand the mindset of their reality because it fundamentally confuses me.

As to your point about concern about terrorists, I agree. But perhaps where we differ is that I think the US's unwavering and unquestioning support of Israel and inability to look critically at why the terrorists are terrorists is dangerous for Americans. You just have the look at the photos and imagine yourself in the footsteps of people in Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon to understand why they might hate Israel and the US.

Have you travelled to the region? Do you have friends who are Palestinian or Lebanese? The suffering they are experiencing is not just an abstraction it's real and human.

I am worried that events have gone too far for there to be resolution that allows Israelis to live in long term peace. But the other path forward that I see is for people to get out of the echo chamber and start understanding others' PoV.

I am the op of the thread. Yes, I watched Maher’s segment. No, his point wasn’t to ground what’s happening today in the Bible. Rather, he pointed to that as a counter to the common argument that Jews have no history in the region/no link to the land.

I think the human suffering in Gaza and Lebanon even before October 7 is directly tied to religious extremism. More directly: terrorist regimes have controlled their politics and negatively impacted their daily lives thanks to bad choices on how to spend billions in aid, doing the bidding of a horrific regime in Iran, and enforcing barbaric morality laws in Gaza, etc.

I have friends in Lebanon (and relatives by marriage who left decades ago but still have family there). It used to be nice until Hezbollah got real power.

Honestly, I’ve been worried about how the US has handled Iran. And I think other Arab nations agree. I wonder if the good arab nations are quietly working with western allies to stomp out religious extremism in Gaza and Lebanon to lay the groundwork for regime change in Iran. They’ve gone this far, why stop now?

The good Afghans were heartbroken when we left and the Taliban regained power. For good reason: they had a taste of freedom and western values and liked it. Perhaps the only way to build a civilized, peaceful society is by obliterating the regimes and forcefully implementing religious freedom and basic human rights?

Holy wars never end well. Maybe wars in pursuit of freedom actually leave some semblance of progress in their bloody wake?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

Because that’s what it is to be a Zionist. Arrogantly picking and choosing what suits them.

You can apparently be an atheist who suddenly picks and chooses parts of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. And more audaciously, ignoring life before the Bible or religion; that’s some chutzpah from an atheist.

That’s why Maher has always been pathetic and a clown along with the countless other high profile atheists who all seem to be rabid Zionists as well. When people say he mocks all religions, that’s bullsh*t. He specifically mocks only the Jews who follow the Torah and say Israel is not even supposed to be created until the Messiah comes.

People need to really question their own intelligence if they thought this stupid segment sans any actual debate (like every single time he bloviates on this topic) was “fact-based.”

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't want peace in Israel/Palestine. People who think like you have rejected peace again and again over the last 50+ years. And it comes from your societal norms. Where is Palestine's Gandhi or MLK? Do you have any peacemakers?

Where are the peacemakers in Israel? Name one. Just start with one.

Yeah, didn’t think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a chance to watch this and have a few questions to those who believe it presents facts:

1) do you accept that people of both Jewish and Palestinian descent share common ancestry from the Caanites who lived in the region prior to both the Jewish and Islamic faiths existed? If not, who you think that the ancestors of Palestinians are from”invaders”?

2) if you accept the U.N. designation of Israel’s borders when it was created, why do you not accept the current UN mandated border for the state of Israel.

Because that’s what it is to be a Zionist. Arrogantly picking and choosing what suits them.

You can apparently be an atheist who suddenly picks and chooses parts of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. And more audaciously, ignoring life before the Bible or religion; that’s some chutzpah from an atheist.

That’s why Maher has always been pathetic and a clown along with the countless other high profile atheists who all seem to be rabid Zionists as well. When people say he mocks all religions, that’s bullsh*t. He specifically mocks only the Jews who follow the Torah and say Israel is not even supposed to be created until the Messiah comes.

People need to really question their own intelligence if they thought this stupid segment sans any actual debate (like every single time he bloviates on this topic) was “fact-based.”

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't want peace in Israel/Palestine. People who think like you have rejected peace again and again over the last 50+ years. And it comes from your societal norms. Where is Palestine's Gandhi or MLK? Do you have any peacemakers?

NP. Palestinians don’t need to kiss your ass. The nerve of you. Personally, I have no horse in this race, and I wish both Israeli and Palestinians would ride off into the sunset, but the idea that Palestinians owe you peacemaking is bananas. You stole their land and are committing genocide against them. The only they owe you is the same in return.

The Palestinians could live in a peaceful prosperous nation if only they didn't listen to people like you. There certainly are far right extremists on the Israelis side, just like the far right Arab extremists like you. This is a battle between far right extremist warmongers. I wish there were actual gen Z on this thread to witness that.

Israel has never once adopted a peaceful posture toward the indigenous people they violently displaced to create their nation state, including before 1948.

Not once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

You're right, I'm not done. One more just for you: I'm Palestinian. That you --the actual random poster-- tell me I don't know what I know *first hand* how Israel operates or the lies I know are lies, is *chefskiss*

You'll forgive me if I don't go along with "Middle East experts" like Bill Maher or I'm sure all the ones you're thinking of who happen to be western Zionists. Nothing funnier than being lectured by people who think it's perfectly normal watching roundtables with no actual Middle Eastern people. Nicolle Wallace discussing the Middle East with two "Mideast experts" like: Johnathan Greenblatt and Donny Deutsche.

List your experts who aren't part of "thinktanks" that are clearly pro-Israel. I doubt any are actually Arab and NOT on the payroll. Forget it, because I don;t even care what you think.

Now I am done. Won't even read your reply.

DP

If you are Palestinian, then you can’t possibly be unbiased. That’s understandable.

Serious question: have you lived under Hamas? Are you fine with the grip they hold and lower they wield? Fine with the lack of human rights? I’m just trying to understand how you felt about the state of daily life in Gaza pre-October 2023 regardless of Israel and the history.

Next: I’m curious what you think is the best path forward?