Bill Maher explains the Middle East to Gen Z: Can anyone really dispute the facts?

[Anonymous]

Someone show Dana "IDF don't rape" Bash this:

"New details about the pro-rape riots in Israel. Military police trying to arrest rapists were beaten at gunpoint and pepper sprayed by idf soldiers. Those soldiers faced zero consequences."

https://x.com/krystalball/status/1846493298380197901

Those of you on here who care so much about rape, always seem to go silent when shown the actual *proof* of rapeS from your side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

I'm the Palestinian on here, and the idea I wouldn't want to live with you and hate you because you're Jewish, is precisely what Zionism is. Instinctively treating me like a "terrorist" and/or that I don't exist, I don't have a culture or identity and my life has no meaning.

We both as a people have suffered, but those who did most of the harm to the Jewish people were never really made to pay for what they had done and made us pay for those sins. When you have Netanyahu absolving Hitler and attempting to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust, that is what Zionism does. Not Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

I don’t need to reflect because I agree with everything you wrote aside from the use of Zionist. That is literally the only point I was making. You think Israel should exist. Great. Everything else you say is true and valid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't blame us for Bill Maher, who was raised Catholic and didn't even realize his mom was Jewish until he was in high school. Unless you're saying anyone with Jewish DNA is automatically biased on the Middle East, whatever Maher's many problems are have nothing to do with whether his ancestors were Jews.

lol he has a deed to a few square blocks of Jerusalem(address TBD) because you know he is Jewish. There is no way to justify Israel without “genetic” memory of Jews according to Jews.

Ah, okay, so basically no Jews are allowed to weigh in on any of this because we're automatically suspect. Got it. I think Maher is an idiot, and I think much worse than that of the people running Israel's government, its war, and its illegal settlements in the West Bank, but I suppose that since I'd be eligible for citizenship tomorrow if for some ungodly reason I wanted it, that's not relevant. (It's citizenship, not a deed of land, that Jews are eligible for, btw.)

I thought your response was fine, and then I cringed when I got to your use of the term citizenship - matter-of-fact use with the full and complete knowledge that millions of indigenous people are deprived of that privilege because their version of the fairytale isn’t the exact same one you subscribe to.

Yes, that's one of my objections to Israeli government policies -- that millions of people live under occupation with no right to citizenship in any nation. I don't necessarily object to giving automatic citizenship in Israel to Jews. Palestinians, Druze, and Christians in actual Israeli territory are also able to be citizens, and I assume a Palestinian state would provide automatic citizenship to descendants of 1948 refugees, too. (I don't think one binational state in that space is going to be possible for a very long time, because there are too many lunatics in positions of power on both sides.)

[Anonymous]

There are many forms of Zionism, as there are many forms of any ideology. The people in charge of the American nonprofit T'ruah, for instance, describe themselves as Zionists because they believe that Israel should exist -- but one of their main projects is going into the West Bank and documenting terrorist acts by settlers against Palestinians, or filing lawsuits in U.S. courts to block charitable donations from going to Kahanist terrorist groups in Israel. You can be a Zionist who disagrees vehemently with what Israel does, just as you can be an American patriot who disagrees vehemently with U.S. policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

I'm the Palestinian on here, and the idea I wouldn't want to live with you and hate you because you're Jewish, is precisely what Zionism is. Instinctively treating me like a "terrorist" and/or that I don't exist, I don't have a culture or identity and my life has no meaning.

We both as a people have suffered, but those who did most of the harm to the Jewish people were never really made to pay for what they had done and made us pay for those sins. When you have Netanyahu absolving Hitler and attempting to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust, that is what Zionism does. Not Judaism.

Not totally sure the bolded part is true. Netanyahu absolving Hitler doesn't really mean anything in terms of how most people understand the Holocaust or European antisemitism.

[Anonymous]

Don’t care that’s an issue for over there. We have issues here with illegal aliens overflowing the border and still have issues in Detroit and Pittsburgh with clean water and urban decay.

If Israel and the Arabs/Persians wasn’t to blow each other up go ahead. I could care less. Those either huge opinions about it are welcome to go over there and fight . Don’t care for your BS ME politics here in the US and we should stay out of it . We have fentanyl crisis, economic crisis, immigration crisis and we’ve spent enough of our resources on a region of a world that lets archaic religions rule their existence. Screw them.

Mahr is correct for the most part. But even a clock that’s broken is right twice a day. The US should let them deal with that crap themselves and worry about our own issues

[Anonymous]

There are reports that Sinwar has been killed.

This is an opportunity for Hamas - either change course, seek a deal and spare the Palestinians more suffering, or stupidly name a new leader and let this war continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are reports that Sinwar has been killed.

This is an opportunity for Hamas - either change course, seek a deal and spare the Palestinians more suffering, or stupidly name a new leader and let this war continue.

American colonialism at work. Of course, Europeans shall not pay for their crimes . . . That's the job of brown and black people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

I'm the Palestinian on here, and the idea I wouldn't want to live with you and hate you because you're Jewish, is precisely what Zionism is. Instinctively treating me like a "terrorist" and/or that I don't exist, I don't have a culture or identity and my life has no meaning.

We both as a people have suffered, but those who did most of the harm to the Jewish people were never really made to pay for what they had done and made us pay for those sins. When you have Netanyahu absolving Hitler and attempting to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust, that is what Zionism does. Not Judaism.

Not totally sure the bolded part is true. Netanyahu absolving Hitler doesn't really mean anything in terms of how most people understand the Holocaust or European antisemitism.

It allows the Israelis to commit their own holocaust. There is little difference between Israel and Nazi Germany. The state of Israel is planing to starve 2.3 million people to death. How many Jews were killed in WW2?

Israel's Netanyahu considers plan to starve Gaza's civilians to death
Sunday, 13 October 2024 6:36 PM [ Last Update: Sunday, 13 October 2024 6:36 PM ]

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/10/13/735183/Palestine-Gaza-Netanyahu-Matthew-Miller---

If Israel is allowed to kill 2.3 million Palestinians out of 7-8 Palestinians it would be the same as the holocaust.

There is no opposition to this plan in Israel…never again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are reports that Sinwar has been killed.

This is an opportunity for Hamas - either change course, seek a deal and spare the Palestinians more suffering, or stupidly name a new leader and let this war continue.

American colonialism at work. Of course, Europeans shall not pay for their crimes . . . That's the job of brown and black people.

How is it colonialism when Judea has been the land of the Jews for thousands of years? You seem to be spouting generic reactionary knee-jerk nonsense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are reports that Sinwar has been killed.

This is an opportunity for Hamas - either change course, seek a deal and spare the Palestinians more suffering, or stupidly name a new leader and let this war continue.

Report seems credible. They say IDF saw terrorist activity in a building and fired on it, had no idea Sinwar was there, but there are some rather graphic photos of his corpse circulating and there's a very solid visual match between the body and photos of Sinwar, exact matches on teeth and facial marks. They are claiming there is a DNA match as well.

What remains of Hamas and their handlers should recognize this as an opportunity to change course for a different, less violent future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others. And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term? Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions? I certainly am not anti Jewish. I am also not anti Israeli. I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

I'd use nothing as an epithet and just call people out on their actual positions once they make them known. Zionism is just belief in a Jewish homeland the vast majority of Jews share. It doesn't indicate a specific position on the conflict at all. Imo it's jarring to see it used as a slur and it makes people less willing to engage.

“belief in a Jewish homeland”

Consider this point: the homeland was already home to others. Think and reflect on this point for a minute.

If you can’t accept this: THAt is the root of the problem.

Deflecting and blaming people for labeling it Zionism doesn’t make it less so.

The Holocaust was beyond words and purges in Europe were horrible (I can relate, I’m descended from Ukrainian Jews who left in the early 1900s bc of the pogroms).

It’s a lovely idea that there was a “land without people for a people without land” and I vividly remember in elementary school watching a documentary on how the Jews made the desert bloom. But this was a lie.

Right now Israel is killing, maiming (and I keep repeating this on this board bc it’s true and beyond horrible) and displacing thousands of people. How can a good Jew think this is ok? How do you justify this to yourself?

I agree that Israel should exist bc now it’s there and millions of Jews live there that should live. But Palestinians and Lebanese serve to live too. Any “right” that Israel has does not give it the right to inflict suffering onto others. Jews are better than this. We know what pain is. We know historical trauma. Let’s lean into our empathy.

The America I want to live in is better than this too.

I’m off my soapbox but it is so clear to me that Israel’s / Zionist’s’ (I think the term Zionist is better and less of a sweeping generalization that leads to hate crimes bc I know not all Israelis agree with Israel’s actions) are wrong that I just don’t know how a good human can think otherwise.

I'm the Palestinian on here, and the idea I wouldn't want to live with you and hate you because you're Jewish, is precisely what Zionism is. Instinctively treating me like a "terrorist" and/or that I don't exist, I don't have a culture or identity and my life has no meaning.

We both as a people have suffered, but those who did most of the harm to the Jewish people were never really made to pay for what they had done and made us pay for those sins. When you have Netanyahu absolving Hitler and attempting to blame Palestinians for the Holocaust, that is what Zionism does. Not Judaism.

Germany was flattened to the ground by the end of WW2. Germany was carved up by the Allied powers and the soviets were allowed to brutally control half of Germany for decades. Art and treasure has been returned to the rightful Jewish owners through tedious investigations that took place over decades. The Nuremberg Trials were an unprecedented act of justice that punished many Nazis and collaborators.

What on earth are you talking about when you say that those who did harm were never meant to pay? You don’t seem to have a strong grasp on history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are reports that Sinwar has been killed.

This is an opportunity for Hamas - either change course, seek a deal and spare the Palestinians more suffering, or stupidly name a new leader and let this war continue.

American colonialism at work. Of course, Europeans shall not pay for their crimes . . . That's the job of brown and black people.

Sinwar has plenty of his own crimes to pay for, regardless of Europe.