Nearly half the kids in my kids private have a diagnosis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Op - this thread has so focused on adhd and ‘extra time’. My school doesn’t even test! Not all these kids have adhd. This is nyc btw.
Here’s an example of what I mean - I know multiple people who went to trinity (considered the tippy top in nyc). In one family 2/3 kids younger than 25 all got asd and adhd dx (they stayed and were by no means the only ones and were fine). The parents clearly both have the same personality that got the kids the dx but older so no dx. None of them are failures to launch - they’re doing fine. They’re all a little socially awkward. Example 2 is
I’m saying we are incrementally labeling more and more with each passing year and it’s either bad or good or neutral depending on your pov. But not just about ‘extra time’.

I actually think the diagnosis that’s blowing up esp in the private world is asd. It used to be ok to be smart and super socially awkward at all these Tt privates but with the increased focus on social emotional it’s becoming more incumbent on these schools to dx so they don’t just churn out engineers they churn out engineers who can also manage

The fact that the diagnosis of ASD is expanding doesn’t mean that the therapies for it are expanding. Just because the kids get the label doesn’t mean suddenly you can do something to fix it especially on the higher functioning side. The autism label only really helps is if in fact you do have a child who is struggling - in which case they likely are not at Trinity because this generally implicates some kind of behavior or language delay that means the kid is disruptive or really does not fit in. In those cases the dx gets you access to ABA, OT and speech covered by insurance, more behavioral and academic supports in the IEP, etc.

the actual issue that researchers see with kids on the higher functioning end of the spectrum - those *few* who may “mask” well enough to succeed academically at an elite private and scrape by socially - is that they do not keep up on daily living skills like other young adults. cooking, hygeine, organization, manners, taking feedback, living with roommates, etc. That can end up being impairing. And ironically, focusing only on “accommodations” in school so they succeed academically ends up ignoring what they actually need.

I just don’t think that’s true.
Half of Silicon Valley is on the spectrum.
They are flagged at privates bc they can keep up academically but socially they cannot. Doesn’t mean they’re disruptive. Means they don’t have many friends or are generally socially awkward/ say the wrong thing sometimes etc

Half of Silicon Valley is not developmentally disabled.

google 'silicon valley neurodiverse' and you'll see that is in fact not far off.
what did you think the deal was there?

I think the deal is that “neurodiverse” means nothing. Although I’m still waiting to hear from the people with kids with substantial IEPs that got admitted to top private DC HSs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many ill behaved students from our school go the privates to get help with their behavior. It really helped clean up our public school in the last 7 years.

ffs. behavioral problems are instant kryptonite to mainstream privates.

but if not, y’all, PLEASE spill the beans on all of these mainstream DMV privates admitting kids with IEPs and a history of behavioral issues! I would LOVE to be wrong. Gimme the names.

privates have no idea if you have behavioral issues or an iep. they get told what you want them to know and what your school tells them. you and your school have to agree on materials that are sent over.

They ask for results of neuropsych testing and for the prior school files to be sent. There’s really no way to hide it without lying. Maybe in the scenario where the IEP was dropped in 2nd grade and they are applying for HS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I dunno about you all but test taking is not one of my regular job duties. Everyone has different strengths. Not being able to finish a test quickly is not a death knell for success in the workplace. The issues that drive the need for the accommodation are what might get in the way, and that will depend on the specific job.

No sh*t. But many (most) jobs require you to prioritize work and complete it in a timely manner to the standards required by your boss. People with “adult ADHD” are not going to be able to get out of these requirements for the pace & accuracy of their work on the basis of their disability.

DP: The point of ADHD accommodations in schools is to help the student learn and show what they know in spite of the disability, while simultaneously teaching them with supports how to develop the executive function skills that do not come naturally to them due to the disability. Diagnosed early enough and with correct supports in school, this person will have the tools they need to manage the issue in adulthood. They should be and are able to function in the workplace just fine.

lol! no. ADHD and autism, if they have any meaning, are lifelong conditions. It would be lovely if a few executive function supports in school could cure ADHD but that’s just not the case. people are simulataneously laying claim to a disability then claiming it’s so mild that a few “supports” cure it. nope nope nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I vividly remember going to the Safeway pharmacist at Sangamore when my DC was put on these meds and I inquired if they usually keep these in stock for future reference. The pharmacist laughed at me and said "honey, I fill 100 of these prescriptions everyday, we always have it in stock" and then she laughed. My DC stayed on them for about a month and then said they wanted to be themselves again and did not like what the pills did to their personality. That was that, as a family we never looked back and got our kid in the right learning environment for them and everything thankfully worked out. I am shocked at how many teachers and parents over the years freely talk about the number of kids on meds, nothing to celebrate in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I bet it is difficult for you to be so ignorant about disabilities so as to be posting so aggressively about this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I bet it is difficult for you to be so ignorant about disabilities so as to be posting so aggressively about this

No, I have a kid with autism. I’ve asked multiple times for people to post the names of these private schools where all these kids with IEPs and support needs get admitted. Please prove me wrong, I’d love that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many ill behaved students from our school go the privates to get help with their behavior. It really helped clean up our public school in the last 7 years.

This is just snark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I bet it is difficult for you to be so ignorant about disabilities so as to be posting so aggressively about this

No, I have a kid with autism. I’ve asked multiple times for people to post the names of these private schools where all these kids with IEPs and support needs get admitted. Please prove me wrong, I’d love that.

I learned pretty quickly that parents who think disability only looks like their kid's disability are the most ignorant and mean of all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

I run a team of about 20 people. Yes many/most deadlines are flexible and it is common for there to be some give and take on deadlines. In particular, as people become more experienced and when they are SME, I tend to give them more deference on timelines because I trust them to know how much time it will take to do something correctly.

However,

There is a big difference between "this is going to take a few extra days because I need to run these numbers against the ones from 5 and 10 years ago if we want the analysis to be maximally useful to the client" and "I put this off until the last second and then realized it was a lot more work than I expected it to be and now need more time." And while sometimes people who are good at BS can make the latter sound like the former, eventually everyone figures it out. And especially when I have a newer team member who I'm giving more discrete tasks to or who is mostly doing work to support projects "owned" by other people, getting persistent push back on how long things will take or seeing lots of signs of procrastination are huge red flags and unless it is addressed fairly quickly will mean they will not move up and in many cases may be asked to leave (I have been through 3 downsizings and people like this are easy layoffs when we are asked to tighten our belts at the department level).

So while I agree the workplace is not identical to the circumstances students face in school, there are more similarities than you seem willing to acknowledge. And people who are accustomed to having their limitation accommodated instead of learning how to work through them on their own tend to be workplace liabilities. Everyone has challenges. I myself am a procrastinator by nature, but I use lists and fake deadlines and other methods to ensure this tendency doesn't impact my work. And the reason I have those tools is because I didn't spend my education being told "oh it's okay you're brain is just different -- here is extra time and support to complete your work." I was expected to meet expectations just like the student next to me, who for all I knew was dealing with their own unique challenges. That's life.

Or it used to be before we decided that some people are special and should get all the rewards of hard work and discipline without actually working hard or being disciplined. Well that is not going to work out great in the workplace even if schools have bought into it. At some point you have to figure out how to get your work done without the handholding.

I have 200+ engineers who work for me and in 20 years thousands.

I’ve rarely experienced any issues like you describe. Maybe you need a therapist.

Engineers tell PM’s when they will complete their tasks, it’s put into a plan and adjusted when real issues arise.

Huh I am an engineer working as a PM with engineers working under me and this is NOT how my workplace works. Deadlines are imposed by the org or client and we are expected to meet them. I am currently understaffed and regularly have to do work that I should be assigning out to engineers because I am short people and running too many projects (org is also short on PMs and is struggling to find people for vacant positions at my level). When I have to go to my bosses to explain we are missing a deadline for one reason or another it sucks and people are NOT understanding.

I have no idea where you could possible work that there basically are no set deadlines and everyone gets to just tell you how long something is going to take but that is not the reality in any workplace I've been in. I don't know how you even run a business like that -- how do you budget man hours to a project? Don't clients exert pressure when there are time and cost overruns? It sounds like you must work in development with a big budget? I cannot relate.

(Also telling someone who disagrees with you that they "need therapy" is just obnoxious. Engineers are not always known for our bedside manner and I can be rude by accident sometimes but that's just jerk behavior.)

Then you’re a terrible pm.

Data only moves so fast so if we are doing an upgrade and need to live data our boss can’t tell us how long that takes, we tell them.

Fast, good, cheap

Pick 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Then you’re a terrible pm.

Data only moves so fast so if we are doing an upgrade and need to live data our boss can’t tell us how long that takes, we tell them.

Fast, good, cheap

Pick 2

I’m neither of the above posters. Given that the life beyond school example has relevancy, I will point out that the vitriol in this response reflects binary thinking.

The previous PM is not terrible for pointing out the reality in their particular work experience. Within the same company, there might be differences in how things need to happen without being fired because of contracts and deadlines set by those outside the company.

When children learn strategies to navigate a variety of environments at school, they are building resources to navigate challenges in life beyond school. Obviously, what these are and what this looks like depends on the child and their situation and setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many ill behaved students from our school go the privates to get help with their behavior. It really helped clean up our public school in the last 7 years.

ffs. behavioral problems are instant kryptonite to mainstream privates.

but if not, y’all, PLEASE spill the beans on all of these mainstream DMV privates admitting kids with IEPs and a history of behavioral issues! I would LOVE to be wrong. Gimme the names.

privates have no idea if you have behavioral issues or an iep. they get told what you want them to know and what your school tells them. you and your school have to agree on materials that are sent over.

They ask for results of neuropsych testing and for the prior school files to be sent. There’s really no way to hide it without lying. Maybe in the scenario where the IEP was dropped in 2nd grade and they are applying for HS.

No they don’t. Why would they ask for neuropsych testing? Why would they even know you had a neuropsych? And they don’t ask for files they ask for a report and your school works with you to send a report that puts kids best foot fwd. don’t need to disclose. Dumb to apply a kid to a school they won’t thrive in but lots of kids have learning differences and can still thrive in mainstream private

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I bet it is difficult for you to be so ignorant about disabilities so as to be posting so aggressively about this

No, I have a kid with autism. I’ve asked multiple times for people to post the names of these private schools where all these kids with IEPs and support needs get admitted. Please prove me wrong, I’d love that.

Private schools don’t have ieps. They create bespoke supports. I can only speak for nyc but there is no private in nyc that does not have some neurodiverse students. Trinity/ york prep/ Horace Mann/ Columbia grammar browning and Buckley all have lots of hfa kids and fieldston, poly prep, Dwight, ethical, Trevor day all have adhd kids (half of all these have dedicated support streams built in but are mainstream).
Surprised this is not typical in dc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many ill behaved students from our school go the privates to get help with their behavior. It really helped clean up our public school in the last 7 years.

ffs. behavioral problems are instant kryptonite to mainstream privates.

but if not, y’all, PLEASE spill the beans on all of these mainstream DMV privates admitting kids with IEPs and a history of behavioral issues! I would LOVE to be wrong. Gimme the names.

privates have no idea if you have behavioral issues or an iep. they get told what you want them to know and what your school tells them. you and your school have to agree on materials that are sent over.

They ask for results of neuropsych testing and for the prior school files to be sent. There’s really no way to hide it without lying. Maybe in the scenario where the IEP was dropped in 2nd grade and they are applying for HS.

No they don’t. Why would they ask for neuropsych testing? Why would they even know you had a neuropsych? And they don’t ask for files they ask for a report and your school works with you to send a report that puts kids best foot fwd. don’t need to disclose. Dumb to apply a kid to a school they won’t thrive in but lots of kids have learning differences and can still thrive in mainstream private

They ask for the results of any testing and they ask for records from the previous school. I guess you could lie. And that’s the whole point isn’t it? People are somehow simultaneously saying these elite privates are essentially SN schools but don’t admit kids with SN. Nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The prejudice on display in this thread clearly comes from ignorance.

there’s zero prejudice here. just massive eyerolling at the claims that 1/3 of tony private school kids actually have a disabiling condition.

I bet it is difficult for you to be so ignorant about disabilities so as to be posting so aggressively about this

No, I have a kid with autism. I’ve asked multiple times for people to post the names of these private schools where all these kids with IEPs and support needs get admitted. Please prove me wrong, I’d love that.

Private schools don’t have ieps. They create bespoke supports. I can only speak for nyc but there is no private in nyc that does not have some neurodiverse students. Trinity/ york prep/ Horace Mann/ Columbia grammar browning and Buckley all have lots of hfa kids and fieldston, poly prep, Dwight, ethical, Trevor day all have adhd kids (half of all these have dedicated support streams built in but are mainstream).
Surprised this is not typical in dc.

Some. And likely were admitted in younger grades and scraping buy. Obviously I know that privates do not have IEPs - but they do not and will not admit kids with a real IEP on their records, especially autism.