Data Goldmine: YoY Enrollment Patterns by School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It seems like people are trying to assert that kids with rights to (not the same as IB for) Deal, Hardy, JR, and Stuart-Hobson are a significant proportion of BASIS' enrollment. And that may be true, I'm really not sure. Ok, yay for BASIS.

But at the same time, it's also the case that a lot of kids who have access to a high-quality middle school are not choosing BASIS. And that's why you see zero kids from Janney going to BASIS, for example. This data doesn't tell us how many kids wanted to go to BASIS but didn't get in, but it also doesn't tell us how many kids are at BASIS only because they didn't get anything they like better, and how many kids wouldn't have gone to BASIS even if they had applied and matched. But it strikes me as notable when people choose Stuart-Hobson over BASIS even though Eastern isn't an appealing high school. And it seems in this data that a lot of people are choosing Stuart-Hobson.

100% of the kids in my household attend JR, but that doesn't mean I think JR is really that great. And it doesn't make them a significant proportion of JR's enrollment.

The boundary data that has been used is for in boundary. Further, as has now been explained 10 times, as a 100% lottery school no one school could or should make up a significant proportion. No one suggested those schools make up a significant proportion. What was said was that those middle schools represent a greater proportion than some of the "lessor middle schools", in opposition to what some dimwit said. An idea you have now inexplicably repeated while inserting some inane IB vs OOB right concept.

If by "kids who have access to a high quality middle school" you mean Deal and Hardy, YOU ARE WRONG. There are more kids IB for those schools at BASIS than all but one non-CH middle school. Of course it isn't most of those schools' kids; BASIS has only 135 5th grade seats and it is a pure lottery. No one said it was most of those IB kids. Let me repeat: What was said was that available data shows us that (contrary to you repeating your unfounded beliefs) Deal and Hardy IB kids are sending more kids to BASIS than everyone except the 3 CH middle schools and MacFarland. Which debunks the idea that kids who have a "good" (Deal/Hardy) MS path don't attend.

Oh brother. If you’re a Basis parent, I’m glad we didn’t get in.

The point is: a very small proportion of strong IB MS choose Basis. Nobody ever said NONE.

Best for all concerned. Your match and analytic skills would not have permitted you to effectively support your kid's BASIS education as evidenced by the fact that you don't see to grasp that the number of kids in a school is limited by overall enrollment. Or did you think a school with only 650 kids across 8 grades was enrolling a couple hundred per grade?

All you seem to be doing is repeating a logical fallacy: the fact that more Deal parents than Kelly Miller parents send their kids to Basis means that on the whole parents do not prefer a strong IB DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

First of all, you’re either lying or people know you’re a wacky EH evangelist so they’re telling you what you want to hear. Second, my kids are at a school that feeds to EH and I can’t think of a single person who didn’t try to lottery into Latin/BASIS. We lost an entire class (of 2) to Latin and BASIS after 4th last year. Even the one mom who loudly talked about supporting neighborhood schools ended up sending her kid to BASIS. And she was IB for Stuart Hobson with the option to send to either SH or EH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

First of all, you’re either lying or people know you’re a wacky EH evangelist so they’re telling you what you want to hear. Second, my kids are at a school that feeds to EH and I can’t think of a single person who didn’t try to lottery into Latin/BASIS. We lost an entire class (of 2) to Latin and BASIS after 4th last year. Even the one mom who loudly talked about supporting neighborhood schools ended up sending her kid to BASIS. And she was IB for Stuart Hobson with the option to send to either SH or EH.

Not lying at all. The numbers going from Maury (27 last year) and bigger 5th grade classes tell the story. Yes many will still do the lottery and take the spots, but there are people (raise hand!) who don’t even try for Basis. It’s changing. People want to send their kids to the school down the street if they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

First of all, you’re either lying or people know you’re a wacky EH evangelist so they’re telling you what you want to hear. Second, my kids are at a school that feeds to EH and I can’t think of a single person who didn’t try to lottery into Latin/BASIS. We lost an entire class (of 2) to Latin and BASIS after 4th last year. Even the one mom who loudly talked about supporting neighborhood schools ended up sending her kid to BASIS. And she was IB for Stuart Hobson with the option to send to either SH or EH.

Not lying at all. The numbers going from Maury (27 last year) and bigger 5th grade classes tell the story. Yes many will still do the lottery and take the spots, but there are people (raise hand!) who don’t even try for Basis. It’s changing. People want to send their kids to the school down the street if they can.

(And of course my point was about all charters not just Basis. Unlike just a few years ago, EH is more appealing than ITS or TR.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

First of all, you’re either lying or people know you’re a wacky EH evangelist so they’re telling you what you want to hear. Second, my kids are at a school that feeds to EH and I can’t think of a single person who didn’t try to lottery into Latin/BASIS. We lost an entire class (of 2) to Latin and BASIS after 4th last year. Even the one mom who loudly talked about supporting neighborhood schools ended up sending her kid to BASIS. And she was IB for Stuart Hobson with the option to send to either SH or EH.

Not lying at all. The numbers going from Maury (27 last year) and bigger 5th grade classes tell the story. Yes many will still do the lottery and take the spots, but there are people (raise hand!) who don’t even try for Basis. It’s changing. People want to send their kids to the school down the street if they can.

(And of course my point was about all charters not just Basis. Unlike just a few years ago, EH is more appealing than ITS or TR.)

Is it?

Sincerely,
ITS parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like people are trying to assert that kids with rights to (not the same as IB for) Deal, Hardy, JR, and Stuart-Hobson are a significant proportion of BASIS' enrollment. And that may be true, I'm really not sure. Ok, yay for BASIS.

But at the same time, it's also the case that a lot of kids who have access to a high-quality middle school are not choosing BASIS. And that's why you see zero kids from Janney going to BASIS, for example. This data doesn't tell us how many kids wanted to go to BASIS but didn't get in, but it also doesn't tell us how many kids are at BASIS only because they didn't get anything they like better, and how many kids wouldn't have gone to BASIS even if they had applied and matched. But it strikes me as notable when people choose Stuart-Hobson over BASIS even though Eastern isn't an appealing high school. And it seems in this data that a lot of people are choosing Stuart-Hobson.

100% of the kids in my household attend JR, but that doesn't mean I think JR is really that great. And it doesn't make them a significant proportion of JR's enrollment.

The boundary data that has been used is for in boundary. Further, as has now been explained 10 times, as a 100% lottery school no one school could or should make up a significant proportion. No one suggested those schools make up a significant proportion. What was said was that those middle schools represent a greater proportion than some of the "lessor middle schools", in opposition to what some dimwit said. An idea you have now inexplicably repeated while inserting some inane IB vs OOB right concept.

If by "kids who have access to a high quality middle school" you mean Deal and Hardy, YOU ARE WRONG. There are more kids IB for those schools at BASIS than all but one non-CH middle school. Of course it isn't most of those schools' kids; BASIS has only 135 5th grade seats and it is a pure lottery. No one said it was most of those IB kids. Let me repeat: What was said was that available data shows us that (contrary to you repeating your unfounded beliefs) Deal and Hardy IB kids are sending more kids to BASIS than everyone except the 3 CH middle schools and MacFarland. Which debunks the idea that kids who have a "good" (Deal/Hardy) MS path don't attend.

Oh brother. If you’re a Basis parent, I’m glad we didn’t get in.

The point is: a very small proportion of strong IB MS choose Basis. Nobody ever said NONE.

Best for all concerned. Your match and analytic skills would not have permitted you to effectively support your kid's BASIS education as evidenced by the fact that you don't see to grasp that the number of kids in a school is limited by overall enrollment. Or did you think a school with only 650 kids across 8 grades was enrolling a couple hundred per grade?

All you seem to be doing is repeating a logical fallacy: the fact that more Deal parents than Kelly Miller parents send their kids to Basis means that on the whole parents do not prefer a strong IB DCPS.

For the last time, no one asserted anything to the contrary. The only references to that on this thread are people like you claiming that was said; it wasn't. Go back and look where this started. Someone said kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't choose BASIS and that it is used by kids from lousy MS. The data showed demand was actually strong from those schools (in fact highest demand from SH). You and others have tried to gaslight by suggesting anyone, anywhere claimed demand from those schools was higher at BASIS than IB. No. One. Said. That.

fin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like people are trying to assert that kids with rights to (not the same as IB for) Deal, Hardy, JR, and Stuart-Hobson are a significant proportion of BASIS' enrollment. And that may be true, I'm really not sure. Ok, yay for BASIS.

But at the same time, it's also the case that a lot of kids who have access to a high-quality middle school are not choosing BASIS. And that's why you see zero kids from Janney going to BASIS, for example. This data doesn't tell us how many kids wanted to go to BASIS but didn't get in, but it also doesn't tell us how many kids are at BASIS only because they didn't get anything they like better, and how many kids wouldn't have gone to BASIS even if they had applied and matched. But it strikes me as notable when people choose Stuart-Hobson over BASIS even though Eastern isn't an appealing high school. And it seems in this data that a lot of people are choosing Stuart-Hobson.

100% of the kids in my household attend JR, but that doesn't mean I think JR is really that great. And it doesn't make them a significant proportion of JR's enrollment.

The boundary data that has been used is for in boundary. Further, as has now been explained 10 times, as a 100% lottery school no one school could or should make up a significant proportion. No one suggested those schools make up a significant proportion. What was said was that those middle schools represent a greater proportion than some of the "lessor middle schools", in opposition to what some dimwit said. An idea you have now inexplicably repeated while inserting some inane IB vs OOB right concept.

If by "kids who have access to a high quality middle school" you mean Deal and Hardy, YOU ARE WRONG. There are more kids IB for those schools at BASIS than all but one non-CH middle school. Of course it isn't most of those schools' kids; BASIS has only 135 5th grade seats and it is a pure lottery. No one said it was most of those IB kids. Let me repeat: What was said was that available data shows us that (contrary to you repeating your unfounded beliefs) Deal and Hardy IB kids are sending more kids to BASIS than everyone except the 3 CH middle schools and MacFarland. Which debunks the idea that kids who have a "good" (Deal/Hardy) MS path don't attend.

Oh brother. If you’re a Basis parent, I’m glad we didn’t get in.

The point is: a very small proportion of strong IB MS choose Basis. Nobody ever said NONE.

Best for all concerned. Your match and analytic skills would not have permitted you to effectively support your kid's BASIS education as evidenced by the fact that you don't see to grasp that the number of kids in a school is limited by overall enrollment. Or did you think a school with only 650 kids across 8 grades was enrolling a couple hundred per grade?

All you seem to be doing is repeating a logical fallacy: the fact that more Deal parents than Kelly Miller parents send their kids to Basis means that on the whole parents do not prefer a strong IB DCPS.

For the last time, no one asserted anything to the contrary. The only references to that on this thread are people like you claiming that was said; it wasn't. Go back and look where this started. Someone said kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't choose BASIS and that it is used by kids from lousy MS. The data showed demand was actually strong from those schools (in fact highest demand from SH). You and others have tried to gaslight by suggesting anyone, anywhere claimed demand from those schools was higher at BASIS than IB. No. One. Said. That.

fin

OMG. Yes, Stuart-Hobson-eligible kids are a large proportion of the BASIS class. For now. But they are not a large proportion of the kids who have rights to Stuart-Hobson. As evidenced by the number of students choosing Stuart-Hobson. If BASIS were really that great, it would be taking a bigger share from the most desirable middle schools. It isn't.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow, interesting that the folks who say Maury is increasingly sending kids to E-H appear to be right! 27 kids went from Maury to E-H last year?? Only 12 from Payne though, which is interesting...

S-H has decent buy-in from across its feeders, if still quite Watkins slanted (27 L-T, 29 JOW, 56 Watkins). That's definitely a foundation to grow from though.

Jefferson... all the people claiming Brent families were going there in any kind of numbers? Not even a little. Sub-10. Wow.

Current Payne 3rd and 5th grade parent here - class of 2022 at Payne was only maybe 17 kids - not because of exodus to charters, just a small grade. In general, Payne is a smaller school - only two classes per grade (except for ECE w/ 3 classes per grade) Current 5th grade class is over 40 kids and a good number of us will be at EH next year.

Maury 5th parent here. Your 5th is the same size as ours! So you think at least 30 will go? I’m actually getting a little excited.

Ah, interesting the 5th grades are the same size. Last year I think we had one 4th grade student leave for a charter, I am not sure if that will continue to be the trend or if we will start seeing the 4th/5th drop at Payne that other schools see. I don't know all of the parents well enough to ask them about next year, but so far I have only heard of one child who will not be at EH next year.
Either way, there is a lot of positive talk about the school, definitely more than a few years ago. And like somebody else said, I think part of that is due to the Principal and the strong community they seem to be building. In the past few weeks we have been at the school for their Basketball Fever feeder event and their production of Moana, and our kids really enjoyed them.

LOL. I can name at least five students in our charter who left Maury after fourth grade.

Oh, sorry, are you saying you're at Payne. If so, I take that back.

More Maury families will start to stay through 5th and EH. Probably most will jump for Latin, but Basis is not broadly appealing, and at this point, most will chose EH over the other charters like TR, ITS.

BASIS is not broadly appealing? What are you talking about? BASIS is basically a who's who of Capitol Hill elementary schools.

I have no issue with Basis and am happy for families who like it. But no, it is not broadly appealing. Many parents don't want it and would much prefer a solid DCPS MS.

Well the data says otherwise, but ok…

Ask yourself how many people with a good middle school option go to BASIS. The biggest feeders are Watkins (17 kids) and Brent (a whopping 10). People with rights to Deal and Hardy and Stuart-Hobson, and feeders for DCI, don't choose BASIS in significant numbers. It's N<10 for CMI and TR despite really low performance middle schools. Is BASIS more appealing than Jefferson and EH? Sure, to some people. But from (for example) Maury's 4th grade class, <10 went to BASIS and 40 stuck with Maury, despite BASIS making offers to 65% of its applicants. Similar for Ludlow-Taylor. So call me unimpressed. But you're outclassing Jefferson and Cardozo, wowie wow wow!

Wow. Where to start.

Watkins is a SH feeder, so you've effectively undermined your entire premise all by yourself.

For SY 21-22 (last available data) there are more kids from the SH boundary enrolled at BASIS than any other MS in DC

There are more kids in the Deal and Hardy boundaries (respectively) at BASIS than from the following boundaries: Ida B. Wells Middle School
Hart Middle School
Kelly Miller Middle School
Sousa Middle School
Brookland Middle School
McKinley Middle School

After Eastern, there are more kids at BASIS from the JR boundary than from any other DC HS boundaries

Does your opinion change when you are faced with "data" and not your baseless and unfounded beliefs?

Now control for sibling preference.

I assume you are PPP who just had their ignorance put on full display and this was the best you could do? My reply using ACTUAL DATA was in response you your idiotic post (incorrectly) concluding that families from SH, Deal, Hardy and JR don't send their kids to BASIS. The data illustrates very much the opposite and makes you look every bit the fool you are. Sibling preference would in no way undermine how wrong you were. You believed that people from those schools don't send their kids to BASIS - you were wrong.

Why don't you go ahead and explain to us how sibling preference makes it any less so that kids from those school boundaries attend BASIS. We'll wait...

P.S. BASIS also enrolled kids from DCB, LAMB, MV and Yu Ying this year. So you were wrong on that part too.

I never understand why BASIS fans get so angry. It's true that some families with SH, Deal, Hardy and JR rights do send their kids to BASIS. But not as many as I would expect, which shows that BASIS is appealing only to some of them. If you got a kid or two from a DCI feeder, yay, but the numbers are so tiny it doesn't mean much. I asserted that DCI feeder kids don't attend BASIS *in significant numbers*, and I believe that's what the data show. For example, at Yu Ying, n<10 went to BASIS and 52 stayed at Yu Ying. Is that really so impressive?

I am annoyed not on behalf of BASIS, but because we live in a world where people like you just make sh*t up and don't have the decency to go away when called out on it. The poster said straight up that kids form Deal, Hardy and SH don't enroll at BASIS, only kids from poor MS. The data disproves it. Do you think you are cute introducing some BS concept of "not as many as I would have expected"? What does that mean? If you are the poster who just got exposed, it is by definition more than you expected. You were given the data.

Or are you denying having typed: "People with rights to Deal and Hardy and Stuart-Hobson, and feeders for DCI, don't choose BASIS in significant numbers"? Because they do, as a percentage of all kids enrolled. And since the school is pure lottery, if they didn't apply in higher numbers they would not be admitted in higher numbers.

Keep typing. You look dumber each time.

I said they don't enroll "in significant numbers", and I stand by it. And I really don't know how you calculate them as a total of all kids enrolled in BASIS. Care to explain?

Cute turn of phrase, but nonsense. As has been explained to you several times, because BASIS is a pure lottery the enrollment is a relative concept. You are now hiding behind that parsing because you're starting to understand that your supposition that kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't enroll at BASIS is wrong.

And, yes, happy to explain. DC publishes enrollment data by boundary. The fact that you don't know this explains how your impressions could have been so wrong. Heck, I could have lived with your ignorance before you were shown the data. What I have a harder time with is that after you were shown data you kept plugging away based only on your own misplaced self confidence. And it only occurs to you 4 responses in to inquire about the data?

Cite the data?

It's not just about boundary residence, it's about kids having middle school feeder rights due to graduating from an elementary school for which they are OOB.

In boundary schools for basis students:

SY21-22 DCPS Boundary SY21-22 Count of Grade-Specific Students Living in the DCPS Boundary that Attend the School
Anacostia High School 12
Brent Elementary School 11
Brookland Middle School 10
Cardozo Education Campus 45
Deal Middle School 25
Dunbar High School 31
Eastern High School 80
Eliot-Hine Middle School 36
Hardy Middle School 17
Hart Middle School 11
Ida B. Wells Middle School 14
Jefferson Middle School Academy 47
Kelly Miller Middle School 11
MacFarland Middle School 28
Maury Elementary School 11
McKinley Middle School 10
Peabody Elementary School/Watkins Elementary School Capitol Hill Cluster 14
Roosevelt High School 14
School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens 15
Sousa Middle School 11
Stuart-Hobson Middle School 54
Wilson High School 33


https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/page_content/attachments/SY2122_Public%20School%20Enrollments%20per%20DCPS%20Boundary_0.xlsx

Seriously. TWENTY-FIVE kids IB for Deal attend BASIS. How many kids go to Deal? 1396. So less than one percent attend BASIS! I guess they're all lottery losers, or maybe just not smart enough for BASIS? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same dumb person is posting over and over again and somehow still doesn’t understand that the number of enrolled kids from a particular IB school does not equal the number of families who were attracted to BASIS and would have gone if they had gotten in. Because it’s a lottery school, we will never know.

But also, WHO CARES???

It’s almost like they’re IB for Elliot Hine, didn’t get into BASIS, and are trying to justify their butthurt…

We don’t have the application data. But based on my numerous conversations with parents, those that affirmatively prefer Basis are few. Good for them. More prefer their IB if they feel confident in it, and as EH improves, more feel confident in it. And this goes for other charters (TR etc). I do think more would pick Latin over EH mainly due to the HS still.

First of all, you’re either lying or people know you’re a wacky EH evangelist so they’re telling you what you want to hear. Second, my kids are at a school that feeds to EH and I can’t think of a single person who didn’t try to lottery into Latin/BASIS. We lost an entire class (of 2) to Latin and BASIS after 4th last year. Even the one mom who loudly talked about supporting neighborhood schools ended up sending her kid to BASIS. And she was IB for Stuart Hobson with the option to send to either SH or EH.

Not lying at all. The numbers going from Maury (27 last year) and bigger 5th grade classes tell the story. Yes many will still do the lottery and take the spots, but there are people (raise hand!) who don’t even try for Basis. It’s changing. People want to send their kids to the school down the street if they can.

(And of course my point was about all charters not just Basis. Unlike just a few years ago, EH is more appealing than ITS or TR.)

Is it?

Sincerely,
ITS parent.

Yes it is. The benefit of kid walking to school with friends, the after-school activities, nice new building - all in favor of EH. I don’t think the ITS scores are much better.

Sincerely,
EH parent who turned down TR and ITS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow, interesting that the folks who say Maury is increasingly sending kids to E-H appear to be right! 27 kids went from Maury to E-H last year?? Only 12 from Payne though, which is interesting...

S-H has decent buy-in from across its feeders, if still quite Watkins slanted (27 L-T, 29 JOW, 56 Watkins). That's definitely a foundation to grow from though.

Jefferson... all the people claiming Brent families were going there in any kind of numbers? Not even a little. Sub-10. Wow.

Current Payne 3rd and 5th grade parent here - class of 2022 at Payne was only maybe 17 kids - not because of exodus to charters, just a small grade. In general, Payne is a smaller school - only two classes per grade (except for ECE w/ 3 classes per grade) Current 5th grade class is over 40 kids and a good number of us will be at EH next year.

Maury 5th parent here. Your 5th is the same size as ours! So you think at least 30 will go? I’m actually getting a little excited.

Ah, interesting the 5th grades are the same size. Last year I think we had one 4th grade student leave for a charter, I am not sure if that will continue to be the trend or if we will start seeing the 4th/5th drop at Payne that other schools see. I don't know all of the parents well enough to ask them about next year, but so far I have only heard of one child who will not be at EH next year.
Either way, there is a lot of positive talk about the school, definitely more than a few years ago. And like somebody else said, I think part of that is due to the Principal and the strong community they seem to be building. In the past few weeks we have been at the school for their Basketball Fever feeder event and their production of Moana, and our kids really enjoyed them.

LOL. I can name at least five students in our charter who left Maury after fourth grade.

Oh, sorry, are you saying you're at Payne. If so, I take that back.

More Maury families will start to stay through 5th and EH. Probably most will jump for Latin, but Basis is not broadly appealing, and at this point, most will chose EH over the other charters like TR, ITS.

BASIS is not broadly appealing? What are you talking about? BASIS is basically a who's who of Capitol Hill elementary schools.

I have no issue with Basis and am happy for families who like it. But no, it is not broadly appealing. Many parents don't want it and would much prefer a solid DCPS MS.

Well the data says otherwise, but ok…

Ask yourself how many people with a good middle school option go to BASIS. The biggest feeders are Watkins (17 kids) and Brent (a whopping 10). People with rights to Deal and Hardy and Stuart-Hobson, and feeders for DCI, don't choose BASIS in significant numbers. It's N<10 for CMI and TR despite really low performance middle schools. Is BASIS more appealing than Jefferson and EH? Sure, to some people. But from (for example) Maury's 4th grade class, <10 went to BASIS and 40 stuck with Maury, despite BASIS making offers to 65% of its applicants. Similar for Ludlow-Taylor. So call me unimpressed. But you're outclassing Jefferson and Cardozo, wowie wow wow!

Wow. Where to start.

Watkins is a SH feeder, so you've effectively undermined your entire premise all by yourself.

For SY 21-22 (last available data) there are more kids from the SH boundary enrolled at BASIS than any other MS in DC

There are more kids in the Deal and Hardy boundaries (respectively) at BASIS than from the following boundaries: Ida B. Wells Middle School
Hart Middle School
Kelly Miller Middle School
Sousa Middle School
Brookland Middle School
McKinley Middle School

After Eastern, there are more kids at BASIS from the JR boundary than from any other DC HS boundaries

Does your opinion change when you are faced with "data" and not your baseless and unfounded beliefs?

Now control for sibling preference.

I assume you are PPP who just had their ignorance put on full display and this was the best you could do? My reply using ACTUAL DATA was in response you your idiotic post (incorrectly) concluding that families from SH, Deal, Hardy and JR don't send their kids to BASIS. The data illustrates very much the opposite and makes you look every bit the fool you are. Sibling preference would in no way undermine how wrong you were. You believed that people from those schools don't send their kids to BASIS - you were wrong.

Why don't you go ahead and explain to us how sibling preference makes it any less so that kids from those school boundaries attend BASIS. We'll wait...

P.S. BASIS also enrolled kids from DCB, LAMB, MV and Yu Ying this year. So you were wrong on that part too.

I never understand why BASIS fans get so angry. It's true that some families with SH, Deal, Hardy and JR rights do send their kids to BASIS. But not as many as I would expect, which shows that BASIS is appealing only to some of them. If you got a kid or two from a DCI feeder, yay, but the numbers are so tiny it doesn't mean much. I asserted that DCI feeder kids don't attend BASIS *in significant numbers*, and I believe that's what the data show. For example, at Yu Ying, n<10 went to BASIS and 52 stayed at Yu Ying. Is that really so impressive?

I am annoyed not on behalf of BASIS, but because we live in a world where people like you just make sh*t up and don't have the decency to go away when called out on it. The poster said straight up that kids form Deal, Hardy and SH don't enroll at BASIS, only kids from poor MS. The data disproves it. Do you think you are cute introducing some BS concept of "not as many as I would have expected"? What does that mean? If you are the poster who just got exposed, it is by definition more than you expected. You were given the data.

Or are you denying having typed: "People with rights to Deal and Hardy and Stuart-Hobson, and feeders for DCI, don't choose BASIS in significant numbers"? Because they do, as a percentage of all kids enrolled. And since the school is pure lottery, if they didn't apply in higher numbers they would not be admitted in higher numbers.

Keep typing. You look dumber each time.

I said they don't enroll "in significant numbers", and I stand by it. And I really don't know how you calculate them as a total of all kids enrolled in BASIS. Care to explain?

Cute turn of phrase, but nonsense. As has been explained to you several times, because BASIS is a pure lottery the enrollment is a relative concept. You are now hiding behind that parsing because you're starting to understand that your supposition that kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't enroll at BASIS is wrong.

And, yes, happy to explain. DC publishes enrollment data by boundary. The fact that you don't know this explains how your impressions could have been so wrong. Heck, I could have lived with your ignorance before you were shown the data. What I have a harder time with is that after you were shown data you kept plugging away based only on your own misplaced self confidence. And it only occurs to you 4 responses in to inquire about the data?

Cite the data?

It's not just about boundary residence, it's about kids having middle school feeder rights due to graduating from an elementary school for which they are OOB.

In boundary schools for basis students:

SY21-22 DCPS Boundary SY21-22 Count of Grade-Specific Students Living in the DCPS Boundary that Attend the School
Anacostia High School 12
Brent Elementary School 11
Brookland Middle School 10
Cardozo Education Campus 45
Deal Middle School 25
Dunbar High School 31
Eastern High School 80
Eliot-Hine Middle School 36
Hardy Middle School 17
Hart Middle School 11
Ida B. Wells Middle School 14
Jefferson Middle School Academy 47
Kelly Miller Middle School 11
MacFarland Middle School 28
Maury Elementary School 11
McKinley Middle School 10
Peabody Elementary School/Watkins Elementary School Capitol Hill Cluster 14
Roosevelt High School 14
School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens 15
Sousa Middle School 11
Stuart-Hobson Middle School 54
Wilson High School 33


https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/page_content/attachments/SY2122_Public%20School%20Enrollments%20per%20DCPS%20Boundary_0.xlsx

Seriously. TWENTY-FIVE kids IB for Deal attend BASIS. How many kids go to Deal? 1396. So less than one percent attend BASIS! I guess they're all lottery losers, or maybe just not smart enough for BASIS? Come on.

*less than two percent. 25/(1396+25)=0.01759

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like people are trying to assert that kids with rights to (not the same as IB for) Deal, Hardy, JR, and Stuart-Hobson are a significant proportion of BASIS' enrollment. And that may be true, I'm really not sure. Ok, yay for BASIS.

But at the same time, it's also the case that a lot of kids who have access to a high-quality middle school are not choosing BASIS. And that's why you see zero kids from Janney going to BASIS, for example. This data doesn't tell us how many kids wanted to go to BASIS but didn't get in, but it also doesn't tell us how many kids are at BASIS only because they didn't get anything they like better, and how many kids wouldn't have gone to BASIS even if they had applied and matched. But it strikes me as notable when people choose Stuart-Hobson over BASIS even though Eastern isn't an appealing high school. And it seems in this data that a lot of people are choosing Stuart-Hobson.

100% of the kids in my household attend JR, but that doesn't mean I think JR is really that great. And it doesn't make them a significant proportion of JR's enrollment.

The boundary data that has been used is for in boundary. Further, as has now been explained 10 times, as a 100% lottery school no one school could or should make up a significant proportion. No one suggested those schools make up a significant proportion. What was said was that those middle schools represent a greater proportion than some of the "lessor middle schools", in opposition to what some dimwit said. An idea you have now inexplicably repeated while inserting some inane IB vs OOB right concept.

If by "kids who have access to a high quality middle school" you mean Deal and Hardy, YOU ARE WRONG. There are more kids IB for those schools at BASIS than all but one non-CH middle school. Of course it isn't most of those schools' kids; BASIS has only 135 5th grade seats and it is a pure lottery. No one said it was most of those IB kids. Let me repeat: What was said was that available data shows us that (contrary to you repeating your unfounded beliefs) Deal and Hardy IB kids are sending more kids to BASIS than everyone except the 3 CH middle schools and MacFarland. Which debunks the idea that kids who have a "good" (Deal/Hardy) MS path don't attend.

Oh brother. If you’re a Basis parent, I’m glad we didn’t get in.

The point is: a very small proportion of strong IB MS choose Basis. Nobody ever said NONE.

Best for all concerned. Your match and analytic skills would not have permitted you to effectively support your kid's BASIS education as evidenced by the fact that you don't see to grasp that the number of kids in a school is limited by overall enrollment. Or did you think a school with only 650 kids across 8 grades was enrolling a couple hundred per grade?

All you seem to be doing is repeating a logical fallacy: the fact that more Deal parents than Kelly Miller parents send their kids to Basis means that on the whole parents do not prefer a strong IB DCPS.

For the last time, no one asserted anything to the contrary. The only references to that on this thread are people like you claiming that was said; it wasn't. Go back and look where this started. Someone said kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't choose BASIS and that it is used by kids from lousy MS. The data showed demand was actually strong from those schools (in fact highest demand from SH). You and others have tried to gaslight by suggesting anyone, anywhere claimed demand from those schools was higher at BASIS than IB. No. One. Said. That.

fin

25 kids from a 1500 kid MS means “demand is strong”? Ok. Very numerate of you.

Look - I have zero issue with Basis and think it is a good option for those kids/families for whom it fits. But you don’t need to be so defensive that you deny that most people don’t prefer it over a decent IB.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I'm no math wizard, but isn't the lottery the limiting factor? Can we see how many Deal-eligible families lotteried for BASIS? or how many matched families eschewed a BASIS spot for Deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like people are trying to assert that kids with rights to (not the same as IB for) Deal, Hardy, JR, and Stuart-Hobson are a significant proportion of BASIS' enrollment. And that may be true, I'm really not sure. Ok, yay for BASIS.

But at the same time, it's also the case that a lot of kids who have access to a high-quality middle school are not choosing BASIS. And that's why you see zero kids from Janney going to BASIS, for example. This data doesn't tell us how many kids wanted to go to BASIS but didn't get in, but it also doesn't tell us how many kids are at BASIS only because they didn't get anything they like better, and how many kids wouldn't have gone to BASIS even if they had applied and matched. But it strikes me as notable when people choose Stuart-Hobson over BASIS even though Eastern isn't an appealing high school. And it seems in this data that a lot of people are choosing Stuart-Hobson.

100% of the kids in my household attend JR, but that doesn't mean I think JR is really that great. And it doesn't make them a significant proportion of JR's enrollment.

The boundary data that has been used is for in boundary. Further, as has now been explained 10 times, as a 100% lottery school no one school could or should make up a significant proportion. No one suggested those schools make up a significant proportion. What was said was that those middle schools represent a greater proportion than some of the "lessor middle schools", in opposition to what some dimwit said. An idea you have now inexplicably repeated while inserting some inane IB vs OOB right concept.

If by "kids who have access to a high quality middle school" you mean Deal and Hardy, YOU ARE WRONG. There are more kids IB for those schools at BASIS than all but one non-CH middle school. Of course it isn't most of those schools' kids; BASIS has only 135 5th grade seats and it is a pure lottery. No one said it was most of those IB kids. Let me repeat: What was said was that available data shows us that (contrary to you repeating your unfounded beliefs) Deal and Hardy IB kids are sending more kids to BASIS than everyone except the 3 CH middle schools and MacFarland. Which debunks the idea that kids who have a "good" (Deal/Hardy) MS path don't attend.

Oh brother. If you’re a Basis parent, I’m glad we didn’t get in.

The point is: a very small proportion of strong IB MS choose Basis. Nobody ever said NONE.

Best for all concerned. Your match and analytic skills would not have permitted you to effectively support your kid's BASIS education as evidenced by the fact that you don't see to grasp that the number of kids in a school is limited by overall enrollment. Or did you think a school with only 650 kids across 8 grades was enrolling a couple hundred per grade?

All you seem to be doing is repeating a logical fallacy: the fact that more Deal parents than Kelly Miller parents send their kids to Basis means that on the whole parents do not prefer a strong IB DCPS.

For the last time, no one asserted anything to the contrary. The only references to that on this thread are people like you claiming that was said; it wasn't. Go back and look where this started. Someone said kids from Deal, Hardy and SH don't choose BASIS and that it is used by kids from lousy MS. The data showed demand was actually strong from those schools (in fact highest demand from SH). You and others have tried to gaslight by suggesting anyone, anywhere claimed demand from those schools was higher at BASIS than IB. No. One. Said. That.

fin

OMG. Yes, Stuart-Hobson-eligible kids are a large proportion of the BASIS class. For now. But they are not a large proportion of the kids who have rights to Stuart-Hobson. As evidenced by the number of students choosing Stuart-Hobson. If BASIS were really that great, it would be taking a bigger share from the most desirable middle schools. It isn't.

There were 368 grade-specific kids in the SH boundary in 20/21. 39% were at SH, 15% were at BASIS, 11% at Latin.

Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster) 142 39%
BASIS DC PCS 54 15%
Washington Latin PCS - Middle School 42 11%
District of Columbia International School 24 7%
Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School 15 4%

[Anonymous]

Hardy: 327 right-grade kids living in the Hardy boundary. 531 kids attend Hardy total. Seventeen kids IB for Hardy attend BASIS. No matter how you slice it, that isn't much. 17/327=5.2%. Wow!

Stuart-Hobson: 368 right-grade kids live IB. 508 kids total attend Stuart-Hobson. 54 kids IB for Stuart-Hobson attend BASIS. So BASIS is capturing about 15% of kids IB for Stuart-Hobson, and a much smaller percentage of the kids who attend Stuart-Hobson.

Eliot-Hine: 483 kids live in the boundary. 317 kids attend Eliot-Hine. 36 kids IB for Eliot-Hine attend BASIS. So about 7.5%. BASIS is the fourth most popular middle school for kids IB for Eliot-Hine, after EH, Friendship Blow-Pierce, and Stuart-Hobson. Wow, I'm so impressed, BASIS boosters!

Jefferson: 492 kids live in the boundary. 375 kids attend Jefferson total. 47 kids IB for Jefferson attend BASIS. Good going, BASIS, you're almost at 10% of kids IB for Jefferson!

McKinley Middle: 650 kids live in the boundary (wow). 10 attend BASIS. That's amazing, I really thought it would be higher! Major congrats, BASIS, on being tied for 20th-most-popular middle school for the Bloomingdale, Eckington, Edgewood, and part of Brookland community! BASIS attracts fewer kids from this boundary than ITS, TRY, Howard, Deal(!), Hardy(!), Stuart-Hobson, and Jefferson. Tell me again, are allllll of these kids lottery losers or too dumb to survive at BASIS?