Unfriendly Classmate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, OP. My daughter is like the child you are describing and she is very shy/has social anxiety. We have been working really, really hard on getting her to wave back to people who say hi to her, to look at people when they talk to her, etc., but it has been really, really hard. One thing I tell her is that unfortunately, other kids are going to think she's rude for not saying hello back to them, but she's not TRYING to be mean or TRYING to be rude, she just really has a hard time in social situations.

Fortunately for my daughter, the kids in her grade ARE very kind and have a lot of empathy towards her. There are several whose parents have clearly explained to them that my daughter is not mean, she's just very shy, and they keep saying hi, and she has finally started looking up and saying hi back to them.

I'm glad to live in an area with people who are kind and have empathy and not around people like you who just automatically assume the worst of people.

For every kid with a story like this there are dozens of kids who are just rude. I've seen it with my own eyes. They are perfectly capable of greeting others when it suits them and then rude some of the time.

It's not assuming the worst, it's assuming what's likely going on which is what we all do every day in countless situations.

Sure, so some kinds are rude and some kids aren't. You can either decide to assume they're rude, which is what OP has done, and be upset about it, or you could assume the best about them and decide there is something else going on that isn't your problem or your business nd let it go.

OP and her daughter should let it go IRRESPECTIVE of what's going on with the other girl! The percentage of kids who are so cripplingly shy or anxious that they can't muster a wave from the top of their driveway is very tiny. Such extreme shyness or anxiety would have also surely manifested itself in other ways at school that OP or her DD would have noticed, but OP says the girl has plenty of friends. So, really, in all likelihood this girl doesn't want to talk to OP's DD and is accomplishing that by being rude and ignoring her.

Here's my personal take -- and it is based on the fact that the DD is still "visibly upset" about this after eight months... the DD is one of those people who offends very easily and moans and groans and creates drama over every small slight, perceived or real. Even kind and inclusive-minded kids can't help but understandably get annoyed and frustrated by that personality type, so they distance themselves from them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just a note to say not ALL children are on the spectrum, spectrum adjacent, have an anxiety disorder, or some other excuse as a reason to be rude to others. Seriously some people are just rude.

23489237493 people have already said this. OP is agreeing with all of them, why do you need to post this?

I tell my socially awkward girl that people may think she's rude.. I guess I'm right. People suck

You certainly do. Stop lashing out at people for your failure to parent your child.

Or sincerely, get them help. There are therapists that can role play all of this stuff. Help your child. This is extreme anxiety and is affecting their life. My kid had something kind of like this going on that was affecting his life and we got him help.

Is there a therapist who can role play "what to do when someone doesn't return your greeting?" Because it sounds like some kids (or, more likely, their moms) are absolutely melting down about the horrifying "rudeness" in a way that makes me think there's something else going on there.

No one is melting down and way to deflect. People notice when people are rude and then eventually they stop bothering to engage with the person. It's just reality. Do whatever you want but if it was me I'd get my kid help.

I agree with this, and it would be great if OP would teach her daughter that. But instead, she is insisting that her daughter say hi every single morning, when the other kid has made clear (albeit in a rude way) that she would prefer not to interact with OP's daughter. In my book, continuing to initiate an unwanted interaction is equally rude.

I'm not insisting on anything. If she were going up to her to chat her ear off, when she's not into it, I'd 100% tell her to back off. But DD just says a quick "good morning" and if the girl doesn't engage (which is pretty much always), she turns to face the street to watch for the bus to come. It never occurred to me to tell her to not do that.

OP, you are so tiresome. Stop insisting that you get to decide what people have to do. You sound like the kind of person who gets mad because people can't just do what you think is easy. You don't get to set the bar for what kind of interactions people must have to not be rude. You are not in charge of drawing those lines.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a note to say not ALL children are on the spectrum, spectrum adjacent, have an anxiety disorder, or some other excuse as a reason to be rude to others. Seriously some people are just rude.

23489237493 people have already said this. OP is agreeing with all of them, why do you need to post this?

I tell my socially awkward girl that people may think she's rude.. I guess I'm right. People suck

You certainly do. Stop lashing out at people for your failure to parent your child.

Or sincerely, get them help. There are therapists that can role play all of this stuff. Help your child. This is extreme anxiety and is affecting their life. My kid had something kind of like this going on that was affecting his life and we got him help.

Is there a therapist who can role play "what to do when someone doesn't return your greeting?" Because it sounds like some kids (or, more likely, their moms) are absolutely melting down about the horrifying "rudeness" in a way that makes me think there's something else going on there.

No one is melting down and way to deflect. People notice when people are rude and then eventually they stop bothering to engage with the person. It's just reality. Do whatever you want but if it was me I'd get my kid help.

I agree with this, and it would be great if OP would teach her daughter that. But instead, she is insisting that her daughter say hi every single morning, when the other kid has made clear (albeit in a rude way) that she would prefer not to interact with OP's daughter. In my book, continuing to initiate an unwanted interaction is equally rude.

I'm not insisting on anything. If she were going up to her to chat her ear off, when she's not into it, I'd 100% tell her to back off. But DD just says a quick "good morning" and if the girl doesn't engage (which is pretty much always), she turns to face the street to watch for the bus to come. It never occurred to me to tell her to not do that.

YOU ARE INSISTING THAT THIS CHILD SAY HI TO YOURS EVERY MORNING. You are. You're calling her rude for not doing so.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

OP, it's monday and the bored moms here have to take their snark out on us which they always do in very typical fashion. Ignore them. You can see it when they are saying the girl saying Hi is mean girling the freak who can't say hi back. Don't come here for real advice.

Op here. I was pretty taken aback to hear that saying good morning while still respecting the boundaries this other girl is putting in place is somehow “mean girl” behavior.

Once when DD was a bit younger, I said hi to a neighbor I didn’t know on a walk and she said “do you know them? Why did you say hi?” I told her that was the polite, kind thing to do.

Im still at a loss at how saying hello or good morning could ever be received in a negative way.

You're missing the point, which at this point is not at all surprising. I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out that your daughter actually had been mean to this girl at some point. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out how some of the people in your neighborhood feel about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

OP, it's monday and the bored moms here have to take their snark out on us which they always do in very typical fashion. Ignore them. You can see it when they are saying the girl saying Hi is mean girling the freak who can't say hi back. Don't come here for real advice.

Op here. I was pretty taken aback to hear that saying good morning while still respecting the boundaries this other girl is putting in place is somehow “mean girl” behavior.

Once when DD was a bit younger, I said hi to a neighbor I didn’t know on a walk and she said “do you know them? Why did you say hi?” I told her that was the polite, kind thing to do.

Im still at a loss at how saying hello or good morning could ever be received in a negative way.

No one said your DD was being a mean girl; some folks thought she wasn't reading the room and her continued attempts to engage the other girl were rude. I disagree -- I don't think your DD is being rude. But really, no one said she was being a mean girl.

To the PP -- calling an 8 yr old a "freak" over this is not a good look.

Op here. Maybe it was that I was a mean girl somehow? Regardless, insinuating that she’s in the wrong by engaging in societal norms… she has read the room and has backed off quite a bit. We are literally down to “good morning” or “hi Larla” and that’s it.

OMG this just keeps getting better and better! Now OP's kid has had to dial it down to "just" saying good morning or hello? Leave this other kid alone.

[Anonymous]

OP what are you doing with your DD to help her work on her over-reaction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

OP, it's monday and the bored moms here have to take their snark out on us which they always do in very typical fashion. Ignore them. You can see it when they are saying the girl saying Hi is mean girling the freak who can't say hi back. Don't come here for real advice.

Op here. I was pretty taken aback to hear that saying good morning while still respecting the boundaries this other girl is putting in place is somehow “mean girl” behavior.

Once when DD was a bit younger, I said hi to a neighbor I didn’t know on a walk and she said “do you know them? Why did you say hi?” I told her that was the polite, kind thing to do.

Im still at a loss at how saying hello or good morning could ever be received in a negative way.

No one said your DD was being a mean girl; some folks thought she wasn't reading the room and her continued attempts to engage the other girl were rude. I disagree -- I don't think your DD is being rude. But really, no one said she was being a mean girl.

To the PP -- calling an 8 yr old a "freak" over this is not a good look.

I think the very very tone deaf thing that you are doing is refusing to accept that this girl could just not like your daughter without being a “mean girl “ or something like that. They are forced into proximity to even though she’s signaling clearly that she wants to not interact with your daughter and she’s not handling it ideally. I’m a parent who requires my kids to acknowledge a greeting and they are able to do so and I agree that would be generally polite. But it’s really strange that it’s April and this is still an issue- how has your child not made peace with it? If I were you I would probably encourage my child to switch to a wave or a smile or something a little more subtle if she doesn’t like saying hi into the air. And I would really really really not get worked up about it myself - it’s virtually certain she’s feeding off you and your feedback that this is very mean behavior and that is why this is still an issue

If the other girl doesn't like OP's DD and that is specifically the reason she did not respond by saying "hi" or waving back or whatever, is actually the definition of mean girl behavior. You can not like someone and still extend them basic respect by saying hello when they say it to you.

Silent treatment and ignoring are very common mean girl tactics (I prefer the term "relational aggression" which is a lot more descriptive, plus boys do sometimes participate in this behavior).

Op here. I’ve NEVER said anything to DD except when she has mentioned it to me … the most I’ve EVER said is “I understand it’s frustrating, but don’t worry about it too much”

Reminder that the only reason I brought any of this up is because the mom of the other girl acts like all of the other kids are unkind, without maybe knowing her kid could potentially be seen the same way.

I strongly dislike someone at work but still can muster a “good morning”. I also work in an urban area and almost always nod or say hello/good morning when I’m walking to work and the sidewalk isn’t as busy.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Anonymous]

I don't think this girl is rude.

If anything, OP and her daughter are not reading non-verbal cues correctly, which is in itself a bit rude.

The non-verbal cue is that this girl is using physical distance to indicate she's not ready to talk in the morning.

Any psychologist or therapist would tell you that this is a valid construct others need to respect. OP and her daughter need to respect it. The other girl has her reasons for not being willing to engage in the morning. That's perfectly fine. When she's an adult, she'll have to go to work, and say hi to her boss when she comes in. She won't need to say hi to anyone else on her way to work. Let's not put any additional pressure on a child than we would put on an adult.

And I can well believe the OP and her daughter are anxious types. Only someone with social anxiety would make such a mountain out of a molehill!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think this girl is rude.

If anything, OP and her daughter are not reading non-verbal cues correctly, which is in itself a bit rude.

The non-verbal cue is that this girl is using physical distance to indicate she's not ready to talk in the morning.

Any psychologist or therapist would tell you that this is a valid construct others need to respect. OP and her daughter need to respect it. The other girl has her reasons for not being willing to engage in the morning. That's perfectly fine. When she's an adult, she'll have to go to work, and say hi to her boss when she comes in. She won't need to say hi to anyone else on her way to work. Let's not put any additional pressure on a child than we would put on an adult.

And I can well believe the OP and her daughter are anxious types. Only someone with social anxiety would make such a mountain out of a molehill!

+1000 - the girl does not want to talk to OP's daughter. OP's daughter is the one not reading the social cues. OP - please apply this rule next time you are on an airplane too. Not everybody wants to talk.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

We can turn this around though.

Your daughter also needs to learn that if someone is putting out social clues that they want to be left alone, then you should leave them alone.

Standing alone at the top of the driveway (or as my DD does: in the garage) is a pretty clear signal that they want to be left alone.

It's actually kind of rude to try to engage in conversation with a person who is making it clear that they don't want to be engaged.

Its like the guys at the gyms that keep try to talk to women, even when the women have headphones on. Your daughter has to learn to read the room

+1. Do I think the girls behavior is ideal? No. Do I think OP’s kid needs to learn to read the room? Yes.

The reality is my husband isn’t a morning person. Me telling him a bright “hello” at 7am isn’t going to get me the response I want. I’ve learned to read the room.

+1

OP isn't going to like this, but her DD is being just as rude (or honestly, imo, ruder) than the other little girl. You don't have some god-given right to conversation. This kid made it perfectly clear by standing at the top of the driveway that she did not want to engage. OP, and her daughter, should have respected that

"Hi" or even polite wave and smile, is not conversation.

Expecting people to acknowledge our existence is actually sort of the bare minimum of what we CAN expect from other people. Except I guess not anymore, because we're all going to claim spectrum disorders to get us out of doing even the most minor possible thing to sustain some kind of social ties?

We need to teach our kids that saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and you're welcome are not burdensome. No, not even for people with social anxiety or spectrum disorders. They might have to work harder to do this, but it's still not a burden. That's like saying "well my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I don't make her brush her teeth." Or "my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I've decided it's okay for her to stick her tongue out at the teacher and roll her eyes when he asks her to turn in her work." Like yes, some people do have to work harder to do basic things, but that doesn't suddenly mean that those things are suddenly too much to ask.

It's not too much to ask. I agree with PPs that OP should take the opportunity to help her DD figure out how to deal with it when people are rude. Absolutely, that's going to be a good skill to have. But the other girl is being rude even if there is a reason why saying hello in response to someone greeting you is harder for her than it might be for the average person.

Also, hey, being rude is not the end of the world. But we should at least be able to acknowledge when something is rude. Standing there not responding when someone you know says hello to you is rude. No matter why you are doing it.

The PPs explaining that the girl might be shy, introverted, anxious etc. were (for the most part) not denying that the behavior is rude. They were just responding to the OP's assumption that the girl was mean and intending to signal to her DD that she doesn't like her. They were explaining why that might not be the case. Most of these PPs expressed that they are working on the issues with their kids, but it's a slow process, and they (the parents) try to be extra friendly to compensate for their kid. Eight isn't 4, but it's still young.

Multiple posters have said “it’s not rudeness, it’s (insert presumed diagnosis with no evidence here).”

My DD is the most extroverted person you’ve ever met. She says hello to everyone. And sometimes it’s not returned. Oh well! We have lots of conversations about well maybe so and so is shy, maybe she wants some space. I have no idea if this little girl has something else going on (and neither does OP, she doesn’t sound like she’s someone anyone would confide in) but I do think at 8 this is so minor and attributable to so many other things (and the mom is working on it!!!) that it boggles the mind that this thread exists. Yes, she should acknowledge another girl in her social group in some way. Is it mean or anything that requires a second thought at 8? No not even close.

But OP’s daughter is hurt by it so instead of continuing to work on the over reaction with her daughter it she came on here to whip up a reaction so a bunch of other moms could talk sh*t about an 8 year old. If your daughter wasn’t upset you would have let this go right? It’s not something that on its face is really that bad at all. And so you self righteously want to make her mom feel bad and recognize her “hypocrisy” even though you have no idea if this girl is being seriously bullied at school or something like that. While totally seriously writing that you are convinced there’s no way your daughter has done anything ever unkind or that could have hurt her feelings. You have to parent your kid, OP, and trying to snowplow over these tiny tiny problems doesn’t do her any favors.

OP didn’t do any of the dramatic sh!t you wrote above, but you got to feel important for a couple of paragraphs so she certainly helped you out.

DP. Yeah she did.

OP harped about the "hypocrisy" in her first post. She accused this girl of engaging in mean girl behavior, since that's what the other mom had talked about.

Also, she did completely ignore any possibility that her daughter could have ever done anything wrong. Which is obnoxious. I have two girls and while I generally think they're good people, if something like this happened I would for sure be open to the possibility that they might be responsible for this girls' behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

We can turn this around though.

Your daughter also needs to learn that if someone is putting out social clues that they want to be left alone, then you should leave them alone.

Standing alone at the top of the driveway (or as my DD does: in the garage) is a pretty clear signal that they want to be left alone.

It's actually kind of rude to try to engage in conversation with a person who is making it clear that they don't want to be engaged.

Its like the guys at the gyms that keep try to talk to women, even when the women have headphones on. Your daughter has to learn to read the room

+1. Do I think the girls behavior is ideal? No. Do I think OP’s kid needs to learn to read the room? Yes.

The reality is my husband isn’t a morning person. Me telling him a bright “hello” at 7am isn’t going to get me the response I want. I’ve learned to read the room.

+1

OP isn't going to like this, but her DD is being just as rude (or honestly, imo, ruder) than the other little girl. You don't have some god-given right to conversation. This kid made it perfectly clear by standing at the top of the driveway that she did not want to engage. OP, and her daughter, should have respected that

"Hi" or even polite wave and smile, is not conversation.

Expecting people to acknowledge our existence is actually sort of the bare minimum of what we CAN expect from other people. Except I guess not anymore, because we're all going to claim spectrum disorders to get us out of doing even the most minor possible thing to sustain some kind of social ties?

We need to teach our kids that saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and you're welcome are not burdensome. No, not even for people with social anxiety or spectrum disorders. They might have to work harder to do this, but it's still not a burden. That's like saying "well my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I don't make her brush her teeth." Or "my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I've decided it's okay for her to stick her tongue out at the teacher and roll her eyes when he asks her to turn in her work." Like yes, some people do have to work harder to do basic things, but that doesn't suddenly mean that those things are suddenly too much to ask.

It's not too much to ask. I agree with PPs that OP should take the opportunity to help her DD figure out how to deal with it when people are rude. Absolutely, that's going to be a good skill to have. But the other girl is being rude even if there is a reason why saying hello in response to someone greeting you is harder for her than it might be for the average person.

Also, hey, being rude is not the end of the world. But we should at least be able to acknowledge when something is rude. Standing there not responding when someone you know says hello to you is rude. No matter why you are doing it.

The PPs explaining that the girl might be shy, introverted, anxious etc. were (for the most part) not denying that the behavior is rude. They were just responding to the OP's assumption that the girl was mean and intending to signal to her DD that she doesn't like her. They were explaining why that might not be the case. Most of these PPs expressed that they are working on the issues with their kids, but it's a slow process, and they (the parents) try to be extra friendly to compensate for their kid. Eight isn't 4, but it's still young.

Multiple posters have said “it’s not rudeness, it’s (insert presumed diagnosis with no evidence here).”

My DD is the most extroverted person you’ve ever met. She says hello to everyone. And sometimes it’s not returned. Oh well! We have lots of conversations about well maybe so and so is shy, maybe she wants some space. I have no idea if this little girl has something else going on (and neither does OP, she doesn’t sound like she’s someone anyone would confide in) but I do think at 8 this is so minor and attributable to so many other things (and the mom is working on it!!!) that it boggles the mind that this thread exists. Yes, she should acknowledge another girl in her social group in some way. Is it mean or anything that requires a second thought at 8? No not even close.

But OP’s daughter is hurt by it so instead of continuing to work on the over reaction with her daughter it she came on here to whip up a reaction so a bunch of other moms could talk sh*t about an 8 year old. If your daughter wasn’t upset you would have let this go right? It’s not something that on its face is really that bad at all. And so you self righteously want to make her mom feel bad and recognize her “hypocrisy” even though you have no idea if this girl is being seriously bullied at school or something like that. While totally seriously writing that you are convinced there’s no way your daughter has done anything ever unkind or that could have hurt her feelings. You have to parent your kid, OP, and trying to snowplow over these tiny tiny problems doesn’t do her any favors.

OP didn’t do any of the dramatic sh!t you wrote above, but you got to feel important for a couple of paragraphs so she certainly helped you out.

She’s on here going over and over isn’t this bad? How is this too much to ask? My child is upset!!!! Please re-iterate that you are on MY side and this child should say hi to my daughter. It’s insane to suggest that I consider there could be other things going on. This is a mean girl with a hypocritical mom PERIOD.


It’s a REALLY strong and odd reaction for a grown woman.

Op here… um, NO. You need to read the whole thread.

Yowza this thread is getting out of control

Not the PP but I have read the whole thread and you sound crazier and crazier every time you post, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

We can turn this around though.

Your daughter also needs to learn that if someone is putting out social clues that they want to be left alone, then you should leave them alone.

Standing alone at the top of the driveway (or as my DD does: in the garage) is a pretty clear signal that they want to be left alone.

It's actually kind of rude to try to engage in conversation with a person who is making it clear that they don't want to be engaged.

Its like the guys at the gyms that keep try to talk to women, even when the women have headphones on. Your daughter has to learn to read the room

+1. Do I think the girls behavior is ideal? No. Do I think OP’s kid needs to learn to read the room? Yes.

The reality is my husband isn’t a morning person. Me telling him a bright “hello” at 7am isn’t going to get me the response I want. I’ve learned to read the room.

+1

OP isn't going to like this, but her DD is being just as rude (or honestly, imo, ruder) than the other little girl. You don't have some god-given right to conversation. This kid made it perfectly clear by standing at the top of the driveway that she did not want to engage. OP, and her daughter, should have respected that

"Hi" or even polite wave and smile, is not conversation.

Expecting people to acknowledge our existence is actually sort of the bare minimum of what we CAN expect from other people. Except I guess not anymore, because we're all going to claim spectrum disorders to get us out of doing even the most minor possible thing to sustain some kind of social ties?

We need to teach our kids that saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and you're welcome are not burdensome. No, not even for people with social anxiety or spectrum disorders. They might have to work harder to do this, but it's still not a burden. That's like saying "well my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I don't make her brush her teeth." Or "my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I've decided it's okay for her to stick her tongue out at the teacher and roll her eyes when he asks her to turn in her work." Like yes, some people do have to work harder to do basic things, but that doesn't suddenly mean that those things are suddenly too much to ask.

It's not too much to ask. I agree with PPs that OP should take the opportunity to help her DD figure out how to deal with it when people are rude. Absolutely, that's going to be a good skill to have. But the other girl is being rude even if there is a reason why saying hello in response to someone greeting you is harder for her than it might be for the average person.

Also, hey, being rude is not the end of the world. But we should at least be able to acknowledge when something is rude. Standing there not responding when someone you know says hello to you is rude. No matter why you are doing it.

The PPs explaining that the girl might be shy, introverted, anxious etc. were (for the most part) not denying that the behavior is rude. They were just responding to the OP's assumption that the girl was mean and intending to signal to her DD that she doesn't like her. They were explaining why that might not be the case. Most of these PPs expressed that they are working on the issues with their kids, but it's a slow process, and they (the parents) try to be extra friendly to compensate for their kid. Eight isn't 4, but it's still young.

Multiple posters have said “it’s not rudeness, it’s (insert presumed diagnosis with no evidence here).”

My DD is the most extroverted person you’ve ever met. She says hello to everyone. And sometimes it’s not returned. Oh well! We have lots of conversations about well maybe so and so is shy, maybe she wants some space. I have no idea if this little girl has something else going on (and neither does OP, she doesn’t sound like she’s someone anyone would confide in) but I do think at 8 this is so minor and attributable to so many other things (and the mom is working on it!!!) that it boggles the mind that this thread exists. Yes, she should acknowledge another girl in her social group in some way. Is it mean or anything that requires a second thought at 8? No not even close.

But OP’s daughter is hurt by it so instead of continuing to work on the over reaction with her daughter it she came on here to whip up a reaction so a bunch of other moms could talk sh*t about an 8 year old. If your daughter wasn’t upset you would have let this go right? It’s not something that on its face is really that bad at all. And so you self righteously want to make her mom feel bad and recognize her “hypocrisy” even though you have no idea if this girl is being seriously bullied at school or something like that. While totally seriously writing that you are convinced there’s no way your daughter has done anything ever unkind or that could have hurt her feelings. You have to parent your kid, OP, and trying to snowplow over these tiny tiny problems doesn’t do her any favors.

OP didn’t do any of the dramatic sh!t you wrote above, but you got to feel important for a couple of paragraphs so she certainly helped you out.

DP. Yeah she did.

OP harped about the "hypocrisy" in her first post. She accused this girl of engaging in mean girl behavior, since that's what the other mom had talked about.

Also, she did completely ignore any possibility that her daughter could have ever done anything wrong. Which is obnoxious. I have two girls and while I generally think they're good people, if something like this happened I would for sure be open to the possibility that they might be responsible for this girls' behavior.

Different DP. Take note of the bolded, OP. I know you said your DD is not unkind, but at school could she be exhibiting immature, annoying, etc. behaviors that are off-putting to this girl?

And, yes, OP literally did every single thing described in that post pretty much to a T.

[Anonymous]

There's a lady at work who uses even basic eye contact is an open door to have a 30 minute conversation. Our days I just cannot so I sit with my head down every time she comes near me. I have a feeling OP and her daughter are the same way..... Why won't That lady make eye contact with me. That's all I want..... Believe me, that's never all these types of people want. They want and demand attention at every turn and when they don't get the amount that they want, everyone else in the world is rude.
Listen I say hi to people all the time. Sometimes they say hi. Sometimes they don't. Do you know what? I don't do sit here and worry about it for 8 to 9 months after the interaction.

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

We can turn this around though.

Your daughter also needs to learn that if someone is putting out social clues that they want to be left alone, then you should leave them alone.

Standing alone at the top of the driveway (or as my DD does: in the garage) is a pretty clear signal that they want to be left alone.

It's actually kind of rude to try to engage in conversation with a person who is making it clear that they don't want to be engaged.

Its like the guys at the gyms that keep try to talk to women, even when the women have headphones on. Your daughter has to learn to read the room

+1. Do I think the girls behavior is ideal? No. Do I think OP’s kid needs to learn to read the room? Yes.

The reality is my husband isn’t a morning person. Me telling him a bright “hello” at 7am isn’t going to get me the response I want. I’ve learned to read the room.

+1

OP isn't going to like this, but her DD is being just as rude (or honestly, imo, ruder) than the other little girl. You don't have some god-given right to conversation. This kid made it perfectly clear by standing at the top of the driveway that she did not want to engage. OP, and her daughter, should have respected that

"Hi" or even polite wave and smile, is not conversation.

Expecting people to acknowledge our existence is actually sort of the bare minimum of what we CAN expect from other people. Except I guess not anymore, because we're all going to claim spectrum disorders to get us out of doing even the most minor possible thing to sustain some kind of social ties?

We need to teach our kids that saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and you're welcome are not burdensome. No, not even for people with social anxiety or spectrum disorders. They might have to work harder to do this, but it's still not a burden. That's like saying "well my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I don't make her brush her teeth." Or "my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I've decided it's okay for her to stick her tongue out at the teacher and roll her eyes when he asks her to turn in her work." Like yes, some people do have to work harder to do basic things, but that doesn't suddenly mean that those things are suddenly too much to ask.

It's not too much to ask. I agree with PPs that OP should take the opportunity to help her DD figure out how to deal with it when people are rude. Absolutely, that's going to be a good skill to have. But the other girl is being rude even if there is a reason why saying hello in response to someone greeting you is harder for her than it might be for the average person.

Also, hey, being rude is not the end of the world. But we should at least be able to acknowledge when something is rude. Standing there not responding when someone you know says hello to you is rude. No matter why you are doing it.

The PPs explaining that the girl might be shy, introverted, anxious etc. were (for the most part) not denying that the behavior is rude. They were just responding to the OP's assumption that the girl was mean and intending to signal to her DD that she doesn't like her. They were explaining why that might not be the case. Most of these PPs expressed that they are working on the issues with their kids, but it's a slow process, and they (the parents) try to be extra friendly to compensate for their kid. Eight isn't 4, but it's still young.

Multiple posters have said “it’s not rudeness, it’s (insert presumed diagnosis with no evidence here).”

That’s what I love so much about contemporary parenting. Mommies are just sooooo tired that they’d rather presume that their kid has a neurodivergence that requires delicate sensitive tip-toeing around and maybe fingers crossed a 1 on 1 and extra test time and a calligraphied IEP than actually attempt to parent their slightly struggling kid. It’s hilarious.

Op here… I’ve never felt like this… until
this thread.

Honestly the crazy thing I left out is that my DD has anxiety. But she’s also very friendly (both can exist together before you come at me)

OMG. it is not like we are running to get an IEP or a diagnosis. I have enough to do then spend hours or dollars with teachers and specialists to get them. We get them after all other avenues have been exhausted. you don't know unless you don't know. I WOULD LOVE for my son to say hello.

I hate that he doesn't have friends. I hate the $1,000's I have spent on therapy. I have tried everything I can think of. I know he looks rude - I am aware. I model as well and been to therapy myself. COME ON - we are trying. I am thankful the families on my street are much more understanding.

I am glad you have an easy kid. I have one of both and you have no idea how lucky you are.