If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

2021-22 Cal Tech CDS says 75 Asian first year students out of a class of 270. Would you like to do the math on that?

Total undergraduate Asian enrollment is 341 out of 987.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

2021-22 Cal Tech CDS says 75 Asian first year students out of a class of 270. Would you like to do the math on that?

Total undergraduate Asian enrollment is 341 out of 987.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

those numbers include multi-racial students added to each category, so the total percentages exceed 100%. You can't compare that to Harvard which doesn't break out multi-racial students in their number. If you are comparing apple to apples, the 341 out of 987 from the CDS is the same measurement (35%).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

2021-22 Cal Tech CDS says 75 Asian first year students out of a class of 270. Would you like to do the math on that?

Total undergraduate Asian enrollment is 341 out of 987.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

those numbers include multi-racial students added to each category, so the total percentages exceed 100%. You can't compare that to Harvard which doesn't break out multi-racial students in their number. If you are comparing apple to apples, the 341 out of 987 from the CDS is the same measurement (35%).

Good point, I didn’t notice that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

This was one of the reasons I stopped interviewing for my Ivy Alma Mater. I put a lot of time into my interview reports and felt like they didn’t matter. The one student who got admitted went to a top private and was very well-connected. He had good stats and was nice, but didn’t stand out compared to others I had to interview (who were rejected). I was just done volunteering after that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

This was one of the reasons I stopped interviewing for my Ivy Alma Mater. I put a lot of time into my interview reports and felt like they didn’t matter. The one student who got admitted went to a top private and was very well-connected. He had good stats and was nice, but didn’t stand out compared to others I had to interview (who were rejected). I was just done volunteering after that.

Exactly. Thanks for confirming. I totally agree these interviews are a waste of everyone's time. They give false hope to kids, waste alumni's time and the end result is the same. Hooks are admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

This was one of the reasons I stopped interviewing for my Ivy Alma Mater. I put a lot of time into my interview reports and felt like they didn’t matter. The one student who got admitted went to a top private and was very well-connected. He had good stats and was nice, but didn’t stand out compared to others I had to interview (who were rejected). I was just done volunteering after that.

Exactly. Thanks for confirming. I totally agree these interviews are a waste of everyone's time. They give false hope to kids, waste alumni's time and the end result is the same. Hooks are admitted.

Agree. The false hope is so sad. DCs interviewer was so nice, I appreciate his time and I’m sorry it feels wasted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

It’s insane that 16 year olds are supposed to do all, be all, and “make an impact”. They’re full of hormones and their brains are still developing. They need sleep to grow. I hate this culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

even at the extreme, only 40% or so of white admits at Harvard are hooked. I mean, tell yourself that it's all about the hooks so you can sleep at night, but deep down you know it isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

Thank you for sharing this, super helpful!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

Thank you for posting this.

Interesting enough my DD was in a similar position when she graduated - top 2% - 1550 - etc.

Was similarly shut out and elected to attend our State Flagship.

I remember move in day - she was in the honors cohort - and the other students were similarly academically credentialed.

My own observations regarding college admissions have been:

student athletes punch way above their weight. On the performance scale - academics vs athletics - ie both 99 percentile - the athlete has a much better shot at a top tier admit.

students from elite privates (Dalton, etc) - very strong placement.

Students whose parents are well placed in business and full pay - very strong placement.

I think there is a reality to admissions that we have to acknowledge.

If you are wealthy and/or influential your DC is going to have an advantage.

If you are full pay your DC will have an advantage.

I am ok with the above - but then perhaps colleges should not be not-for-profit and they should be paying their fair share in taxes on their RE holdings and endowments. If Harvard is the bastion of the ultra wealthy then it really shouldn't be non profit.

I will admit the upper tier rejections were hard on my DD and while my DD had very nice offers from the tier below it was hard to say no to the offer from our state flagship. It basically worked out that DD was paying for room and board. Not a bad deal these days.

And I tell her - sometimes it takes a little longer - but cream rises.

Thank you, also, for posting this, super helpful as well!!

So many people have opinions about what is best and where to go, but imho making the best of what is, is ___________________. Finish that statement how ever you wish. I hope my DC will continue to feel pride in the work and effort that they have committed, and equally to feel appreciation and respect for the work and commitment that other students have made. It's been a tough couple of years and now it is time to begin a new chapter.

Best wishes to the class of 2022 !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the kids I know it was usually one of the two:

1. ECs were not that strong and/or couldn't convey the drive behind the ECs.
2. Put lots of effort into preparing the app for their top choice, got rejected or deferred in the early round, were blindsided by that and spread themselves too thin preparing apps for another 20 top schools.

Please. The core period of these kids' high school experience was during the pandemic. Strong EC opportunities were not even available to most of them, especially in this area.

I feel like schools forgot this. The pandemic killed my kid’s 40 hour a week EC and changed their career path. Starting all new ECs in the middle of high school online during a pandemic is unrealistic.

Changed their career path? Really?

[Anonymous]

Transferring is always an option

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the kids I know it was usually one of the two:

1. ECs were not that strong and/or couldn't convey the drive behind the ECs.
2. Put lots of effort into preparing the app for their top choice, got rejected or deferred in the early round, were blindsided by that and spread themselves too thin preparing apps for another 20 top schools.

Please. The core period of these kids' high school experience was during the pandemic. Strong EC opportunities were not even available to most of them, especially in this area.

This is not true. DC did four activities virtually all through virtual school--FCPS. DC even had virtual statewide events for two of the activities.

Yeah, but a lot of stuff didn’t happen, and even this year was impacted. My kid was in 9th last year and did a few activities that did have some virtual component but not everything did. He plays an instrument and that continues to an extent last year but very minimally with few of the related activities.

If your kid couldn’t figure out how to make a ton of music over the pandemic, then clearly it wasn’t their passion. The kids the T20 schools are looking for are the ones who could have figured it out.

Yes, there are kids whose extracurriculars were impacted heavily, but music was easy to do.

— Parent of a musician

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

That’s because Caltech mostly offers technical degrees. Asians seem to prefer those. In contrast, Harvard is mostly a liberal arts school.