If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's simple math, 30,000 HS in the US, 20,000 ivy seats, so even if only the val's are considered there are still 1/3 rejected.

Add in all the sal's, athletes, and other types of applicants and you realize evenas the top student at your HS, admission to a top 20 school is incredibly good fortune (assuming you want that).

There is no shame in a top student not getting admitted, no flaw in application, nothing other than bad luck of a sort (even though painful).

Top students who have been rejected are still top students, with much to be proud of, and as every study shows, highly likely to remain successful in life regardless of their alma mater!

My kid was very disappointed in not getting into HYPSM. I tried to foam the runways, but there was no way to prevent the profound disappointment. The kids from my kid's high school who got into HYPSM are all minorities with excellent stats, ECs. Sorry if that sounds racist, it's just a fact, like it or not. DC is going to a terrific school, not as elite as desired, but that's life. DC's older sibling went to a HYPSM college, and DC has even better grades, etc. than older DC. BUT older DC is 10 years older, and that decade really changed things in college admissions.

My kid is at an independent and we know kids at various independents. Being a legacy or the offspring of a public figure helped. I think if you are a smart kid with great grades, scores, essays, etc. and you don’t have a hook or prominent parent, you need to be class president, editor of the newspaper, head of model UN where you organized a conference, etc. Strong extra curriculars for an unhooked kid just doesn’t cut it. That’s life. Also, not all kids tell their friends they are a legacy but the parents know because of linked in, bios, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

I don’t get this. You do the interview as one single part of your application, to try to bolster your application. When did the expectation become that if you interview, you’re in?

You are all over this board accusing parents of having feelings and opinions they haven’t expressed. Why do you assume the worst of parents? PP who interviews said most were denied even with great interview feedback. Another person said it seems like a waste of time. No one has said they thought that was the ticket.

Not every feeling parents have is entitlement. Learn nuance of human thought and emotion and stop making assumptions so you can snap back with a snarky response.

And you’re talking about *me* being in my feelings? LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

Goodness gracious. Which HS is this?

I can almost -- almost understand kids "sharing this information freely." Almost. But "parents getting this information without even trying?" Nope. Certainly not to the point of remembering it all to the degree that this poster did. That takes effort. Unhealthy effort. Obsessive effort. Insane effort.

No one cares what you think. You have had your smug "I'm winning at life" moment to tell yourself tonight. Now go away.

You’re not the hall monitor. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

I don’t get this. You do the interview as one single part of your application, to try to bolster your application. When did the expectation become that if you interview, you’re in?

You are all over this board accusing parents of having feelings and opinions they haven’t expressed. Why do you assume the worst of parents? PP who interviews said most were denied even with great interview feedback. Another person said it seems like a waste of time. No one has said they thought that was the ticket.

Not every feeling parents have is entitlement. Learn nuance of human thought and emotion and stop making assumptions so you can snap back with a snarky response.

And you’re talking about *me* being in my feelings? LOL!

No. I’m saying you’re an a$$ just here for snark. You proved my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

So Jews are 2% nationwide but 20-25% at every top 20 college…..are you suggesting they are over-represented? Or does the admissions office have a harder time identifying Jews vs. Asians. Anybody that thinks elite schools don’t have quotas is kidding themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

Goodness gracious. Which HS is this?

I can almost -- almost understand kids "sharing this information freely." Almost. But "parents getting this information without even trying?" Nope. Certainly not to the point of remembering it all to the degree that this poster did. That takes effort. Unhealthy effort. Obsessive effort. Insane effort.

I believe it. I did not know the details but I know the day certain schools came out my dc was on a text thread and they all texted yes or no at same time. I only knew because he mentioned it in passing like “ x,x, x going to Y.” Z is not and sad so I’m going over. Something like that. They are a group of 7-8 all bffs from elementary - hs. My dc was the only one who wanted different experience so no need to be involved but these kids are close and they share a lot. They have had a group thread for years so this was no different. Will say none of the parents talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

So Jews are 2% nationwide but 20-25% at every top 20 college…..are you suggesting they are over-represented? Or does the admissions office have a harder time identifying Jews vs. Asians. Anybody that thinks elite schools don’t have quotas is kidding themselves.

as a factual matter, yes, they are over represented. I'm not casting a value judgment on that. However, pointing to Cal Tech and, especially, UCs and saying that Asian over representation is solely to the presence or lack of discrimination is reducing a complex issue with multiple factors at play to a simple single cause and effect. But sure, I'm the one who's kidding myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

2021-22 Cal Tech CDS says 75 Asian first year students out of a class of 270. Would you like to do the math on that?

Total undergraduate Asian enrollment is 341 out of 987.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

So Jews are 2% nationwide but 20-25% at every top 20 college…..are you suggesting they are over-represented? Or does the admissions office have a harder time identifying Jews vs. Asians. Anybody that thinks elite schools don’t have quotas is kidding themselves.

The current holistic admissions process was designed to keep the number of Jews down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

So Jews are 2% nationwide but 20-25% at every top 20 college…..are you suggesting they are over-represented? Or does the admissions office have a harder time identifying Jews vs. Asians. Anybody that thinks elite schools don’t have quotas is kidding themselves.

Just to correct the record the percentage of Jewish students is not 20-25% at every top 20 school. It is at a few but not all. It’s 10% at Princeton and JHU for example. 5% at Rice. And how many do you think attend Notre Dame?

There is a long and ugly history of overestimating Jewish presence and influence in society and culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

Actually Harvard wouldn’t be 50+% or else Asian Americans start majoring in significant numbers in the humanities/ social sciences. Caltech is STEM focused and the number of Asian American students in the UCs are spread out across the schools but concentrated in the STEM focused majors. Harvard is a liberal arts university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Kid was born into an Asian family could be the answer.

This^. There is a lot of bias for Asian/SouthAsian applicants.

And they end up at Duke instead of Harvard.

No they end up at Caltech and UCs which don’t discriminate against Asians. Numbers don’t lie. Caltech is 40% Asian, UCs are 30+. If Harvard gave Asians a fair shake it would probably have over 50% Asians.

This^.

You are right. It is not the class of 2025. But fall 2021-2022 enrolment for undergrads is still 44%.

https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics

And those numbers aren’t in any way influenced by the fact that California is 15% Asian vs 6% for the country as a whole. If anything UC and Cal Tech (36.6%) don’t overrepresent Asian to the same degree that Harvard (25%) does.

Class of 2025, Harvard 26%, Caltech 44%

2021-22 Cal Tech CDS says 75 Asian first year students out of a class of 270. Would you like to do the math on that?

Total undergraduate Asian enrollment is 341 out of 987.