If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

Was this a MoCo private school? Guessing MD w/ all the UMDs and curious b/c MCPS doesn't rank and kids don't share test scores or grades at my kid's magnet. They have all been together 4 years as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

Thank you for sharing this, super helpful!!

Montgomery county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

Thank you for sharing this, super helpful!!

Montgomery county?

But it would have to be private. MCPS doesn't rank. Also, in what school do kids all know each others test scores and grades? Not my kid's school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The reverse of the bold is that top schools including ivy pluses are watering down their degrees with diversities, e.g., legacies, athletes, with their micky mouse majors. Employers aren't too impressed.

[Anonymous]

If your kid is an academic superstar, they may not get into every top 20 but they will still get into few top 20 privates and their state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

This is not accurate. Being a female is not a hook for Ivies. The "tippy" top students are not getting rejected overall. Many of the "tippy" top students in her school went to T20 schools, and many went to UMD, but that was mostly for financial reasons. Some chose T30 schools because they got great scholarships. But, I also think it's great that there are lots of bright kids at a variety of schools. Just stop trying to make humble brag Asian boys by making them the victim. Maybe if they can't get into the schools they want because they are only STEM focused, they should diversify their interests and skillset. Or, if they are truly tippy top and STEM focused, they should be able to get into a niche focused school like MIT, GT or CalTech. My kid's friends did. What you're spinning here is just drama (which, BTW, would be a GREAT area for Asian males to stand out).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

So the racist gatekeeping that impacted what I presume was your Asian American male resulted in him being accepted to two T10 schools. That's pretty ineffective gatekeeping.

And why would you hope they reject Asian American students? That doesn't seem very sporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing “went wrong.” If a school has a 5% acceptance rate, that means 95% of kids are rejected and many (most?) of those are going to be “top students.”

This, 100%.

What do people not get about this very simple math?

They think their kids are special. And they *are*. To them. Compared to the application cohort they are literally average.

I notice nothing in OP’s question mentions doing something to stand out. If you blend in with a crowd, don’t be shocked if you aren’t selected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

So the racist gatekeeping that impacted what I presume was your Asian American male resulted in him being accepted to two T10 schools. That's pretty ineffective gatekeeping.

And why would you hope they reject Asian American students? That doesn't seem very sporting.

The two T10 schools were public flagships, rather than private Ivies. They actually prove my point.

Asian-Americans are very welcome in colleges, in k-12 schools - when the institutions need to improve their academic stats, accomplishments, performance and prestige. But, then when it comes to race, all these institutions want the Asian-Americans students to actually be White (or some other race) - especially in the Ivies.

The top Ivies reject the Asian-American male students with impeccable academic, ECs etc. Students who are also won national recognitions, have started businesses, are multi-faceted, athletes etc, etc - and eventually these same kids are snapped up by public state colleges with generous merit scholarships and rigorous program offerings. These students then end up improving the stats for these public colleges and the prestige and opportunities at these colleges rise and percolate down to the entire student body.

So the racist gatekeeping by ivies etc, may help the hooked students in the short run, but they are helping the public schools in the long run by diverting exceptional Asian-American students there. A vast majority of Asian-American students are now getting a significant leg up by not having crushing student debt and high paying jobs out of college - something that they did not think of when the rejection letters rolled in.

I think, it is very sporting and farsighted of me to hope that racist gatekeeping at top Ivies continues because the state colleges that are providing an equally good education and opportunities, start getting star students. The one way to break the monopoly of Ivies is to provide the best students to public colleges. The Ivies are the playing ground for the rich White connected folks and if America continues to change than the non-Whites and non-priviledged students need other institutions that can give them the best education for the industries of today. It would help if the star Asian American students boycotted Ivies, unfortunately, that is not happening.

Asian-American students have improved the statistics, performance, prestige of the educational institutions they go to. Be is the public K-12 schools or the colleges. The difference in going to a K-12 school and a college for an Asian-American is, that at K-12 school level, they are prevented from aiming too high by admins just so that the achievement gap is not widened. In a college, at least for now, Asian-Americans can reach as high as they want to without worrying about the achievement gap.

The same argument cannot be made for K-12 Public Schools like magnet programs in MCPS, TJ etc - because other schools do not provide and equally rigorous education, intellectual cohort, program structure and opportunities as these programs. However, at college level, many good public colleges are able to match the education of the Ivies.

I have never been more hopeful for the future of Asian-Americans than at present because of globalization and the fact that they are shining in all areas, regardless of the colleges they are going to. We are quickly reaching the resilience of other affluent and influential groups in USA, and even at work the bamboo ceiling is splintering somewhat.

[Anonymous]

Wow I had no idea there are zero Asian american men in the Ivy League. I learn so much here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

This is not accurate. Being a female is not a hook for Ivies. The "tippy" top students are not getting rejected overall. Many of the "tippy" top students in her school went to T20 schools, and many went to UMD, but that was mostly for financial reasons. Some chose T30 schools because they got great scholarships. But, I also think it's great that there are lots of bright kids at a variety of schools. Just stop trying to make humble brag Asian boys by making them the victim. Maybe if they can't get into the schools they want because they are only STEM focused, they should diversify their interests and skillset. Or, if they are truly tippy top and STEM focused, they should be able to get into a niche focused school like MIT, GT or CalTech. My kid's friends did. What you're spinning here is just drama (which, BTW, would be a GREAT area for Asian males to stand out).

The racist trope of Asian-Americans not being multi-faceted is something that makes parents of average kids feel better. Most of these kids are extremely diversified and excel in STEM, in Humanities, ECs, sports, theatre, community service. Unfortunately they are not chameleons who can change their skin color.

Yes, being a female is a hook for Ivies or Ivies+

BTW - for many majors, UMD is T10. And that is mainly because many tippy top students from public magnet schools from DMV have gone there for these majors.

The Asian-American kids in our circle who have gone to UMD, are all able to afford any college without any aid because their parents have high HHI and saving for college and grad/professional school is a priority. However, many more of these families are opting for UMD because UMD is ranked very high for the majors they want, and these families believe that a fantastic education is the panacea for many problems. These children are also clued into what needs to be done to get the plum job offers and they do not shirk from doing the internships, research, publishing papers, ECs, leadership opportunities etc at UMD.

It does not hurt that UMD showers these students with generous merit scholarships to the extent that sometimes it costs nothing or only several thousand dollars for 4 years of college for these kids. These UMC families are savvy enough to know that the $$$ saved can be utilized by their kids to get even more of a financial real leg-up in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

So the racist gatekeeping that impacted what I presume was your Asian American male resulted in him being accepted to two T10 schools. That's pretty ineffective gatekeeping.

And why would you hope they reject Asian American students? That doesn't seem very sporting.

The two T10 schools were public flagships, rather than private Ivies. They actually prove my point.

Asian-Americans are very welcome in colleges, in k-12 schools - when the institutions need to improve their academic stats, accomplishments, performance and prestige. But, then when it comes to race, all these institutions want the Asian-Americans students to actually be White (or some other race) - especially in the Ivies.

The top Ivies reject the Asian-American male students with impeccable academic, ECs etc. Students who are also won national recognitions, have started businesses, are multi-faceted, athletes etc, etc - and eventually these same kids are snapped up by public state colleges with generous merit scholarships and rigorous program offerings. These students then end up improving the stats for these public colleges and the prestige and opportunities at these colleges rise and percolate down to the entire student body.

So the racist gatekeeping by ivies etc, may help the hooked students in the short run, but they are helping the public schools in the long run by diverting exceptional Asian-American students there. A vast majority of Asian-American students are now getting a significant leg up by not having crushing student debt and high paying jobs out of college - something that they did not think of when the rejection letters rolled in.

I think, it is very sporting and farsighted of me to hope that racist gatekeeping at top Ivies continues because the state colleges that are providing an equally good education and opportunities, start getting star students. The one way to break the monopoly of Ivies is to provide the best students to public colleges. The Ivies are the playing ground for the rich White connected folks and if America continues to change than the non-Whites and non-priviledged students need other institutions that can give them the best education for the industries of today. It would help if the star Asian American students boycotted Ivies, unfortunately, that is not happening.

Asian-American students have improved the statistics, performance, prestige of the educational institutions they go to. Be is the public K-12 schools or the colleges. The difference in going to a K-12 school and a college for an Asian-American is, that at K-12 school level, they are prevented from aiming too high by admins just so that the achievement gap is not widened. In a college, at least for now, Asian-Americans can reach as high as they want to without worrying about the achievement gap.

The same argument cannot be made for K-12 Public Schools like magnet programs in MCPS, TJ etc - because other schools do not provide and equally rigorous education, intellectual cohort, program structure and opportunities as these programs. However, at college level, many good public colleges are able to match the education of the Ivies.

I have never been more hopeful for the future of Asian-Americans than at present because of globalization and the fact that they are shining in all areas, regardless of the colleges they are going to. We are quickly reaching the resilience of other affluent and influential groups in USA, and even at work the bamboo ceiling is splintering somewhat.

Again, because your kid didn't get in, all other Asian Americans should boycott Ivy League schools or, in the alternative, you hope they get rejected. This sounds like a very bad origin story for a Marvel villain. You need to let it go.