Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is MVHS?

Mount Vernon High School way down in south Alexandria - the Fairfax County part, not the City of Alexandria. It is widely regarded as one of the poorest, lowest-performing high schools in FCPS. Very transient population and serves a lot of military families on Fort Belvoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

If opportunity is given to a kid ( rich, poor, or equity), there is possibility they'll squander it. But when opportunity is pursued through hardwork, and not given, there is greater possibility that that kid (rich, poor or equity) would make the best use of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

If opportunity is given to a kid ( rich, poor, or equity), there is possibility they'll squander it. But when opportunity is pursued through hardwork, and not given, there is greater possibility that that kid (rich, poor or equity) would make the best use of it.

Total privileged bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

You can make it work if you are willing to dynamite the rest of your schedule and completely drop activities. That hour of commuting on top of class time has to come from somewhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

If opportunity is given to a kid ( rich, poor, or equity), there is possibility they'll squander it. But when opportunity is pursued through hardwork, and not given, there is greater possibility that that kid (rich, poor or equity) would make the best use of it.

Total privileged bs.

Anything not equity bs, sounds privileged?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

What proper mathematics courses are offered at the base school for kids taking AP Calc in 9th or 10th grade? Take this case: kid arrives in 9th grade with an A recorded for the last year in honors precalc. What classes at the base school comprise a proper mathematics sequence for this child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

What proper mathematics courses are offered at the base school for kids taking AP Calc in 9th or 10th grade? Take this case: kid arrives in 9th grade with an A recorded for the last year in honors precalc. What classes at the base school comprise a proper mathematics sequence for this child?

Would FCPS even take that "A" in precalc if it wasn't a FCPS course? Suppose the kid took precalc in 8th at Basis? would FCPS say ok, an "A" at Basis is good enough, or would they test the kid, or just put the kid in an FCPS track? What is it wasn't Basis, but "Phoenix Home School" or some other nonaccredited school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

What proper mathematics courses are offered at the base school for kids taking AP Calc in 9th or 10th grade? Take this case: kid arrives in 9th grade with an A recorded for the last year in honors precalc. What classes at the base school comprise a proper mathematics sequence for this child?

Would FCPS even take that "A" in precalc if it wasn't a FCPS course? Suppose the kid took precalc in 8th at Basis? would FCPS say ok, an "A" at Basis is good enough, or would they test the kid, or just put the kid in an FCPS track? What is it wasn't Basis, but "Phoenix Home School" or some other nonaccredited school?

What if it was from FCPS. FCPS has kids taking pre-calc or even calc in 8th grade that FCPS bumped up in math back in elementary school. If they aren't admitted to TJ, what is the plan for them? Do they just stop taking math after 9th grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

What proper mathematics courses are offered at the base school for kids taking AP Calc in 9th or 10th grade? Take this case: kid arrives in 9th grade with an A recorded for the last year in honors precalc. What classes at the base school comprise a proper mathematics sequence for this child?

Would FCPS even take that "A" in precalc if it wasn't a FCPS course? Suppose the kid took precalc in 8th at Basis? would FCPS say ok, an "A" at Basis is good enough, or would they test the kid, or just put the kid in an FCPS track? What is it wasn't Basis, but "Phoenix Home School" or some other nonaccredited school?

FCPS or any school in general should place a transfer kid in a class appropriate to their skill/knowledge level so that they can be successful. They compare the two syllabus or conduct some sort of placement test to determine the appropriate class. I am not sure if that's what FCPS does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

"proper mathematics courses" are available at base school. No one is denying access. Attendance is necessary though.

What proper mathematics courses are offered at the base school for kids taking AP Calc in 9th or 10th grade? Take this case: kid arrives in 9th grade with an A recorded for the last year in honors precalc. What classes at the base school comprise a proper mathematics sequence for this child?

Would FCPS even take that "A" in precalc if it wasn't a FCPS course? Suppose the kid took precalc in 8th at Basis? would FCPS say ok, an "A" at Basis is good enough, or would they test the kid, or just put the kid in an FCPS track? What is it wasn't Basis, but "Phoenix Home School" or some other nonaccredited school?

What if it was from FCPS. FCPS has kids taking pre-calc or even calc in 8th grade that FCPS bumped up in math back in elementary school. If they aren't admitted to TJ, what is the plan for them? Do they just stop taking math after 9th grade?

It would be nice if FCPS base schools offered some sort of dual enrollment TJ courses, so that the needs of advanced students outside TJ are met. The base school teachers get trained at TJ, and use their syllabus and grading policy, to teach the class.

[Anonymous]

The VA DOE Governor's school page specifically states that the mission is as follows: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers."

In light of this, FCPS needs to pick a lane. Either the kids who are very accelerated in math have learning levels remarkably different from their age level peers, and thus belong at TJ, or they don't have learning levels remarkably different from their peers, and thus can be accommodated by appropriately advanced courses offered in their base schools or in nearby academy programs.

FCPS can't have it both ways, where it decides that some kids aren't advanced enough to need TJ, but are too advanced to be accommodated otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The VA DOE Governor's school page specifically states that the mission is as follows: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers."

In light of this, FCPS needs to pick a lane. Either the kids who are very accelerated in math have learning levels remarkably different from their age level peers, and thus belong at TJ, or they don't have learning levels remarkably different from their peers, and thus can be accommodated by appropriately advanced courses offered in their base schools or in nearby academy programs.

FCPS can't have it both ways, where it decides that some kids aren't advanced enough to need TJ, but are too advanced to be accommodated otherwise.

Studies have shown that offering too many advanced courses at base school only furthers the achievement gap between slow and aspiring learners. The unintended consequence of implementing equitable education in public schools is access to advanced courses gets limited.

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Anonymous wrote:There are many courses at TJ not available online or through dual enrollment at other FCPS schools. At all other FCPS schools, kids can take 1 year of DE post AP math. After that, there’s nothing. TJ has several extra DE options and post AP courses.

Supplementing costs money. Every kid in FCPS should have access to an education that is free and appropriate for their level of advancement

Here's the reality - for whatever reason, there have always been kids at schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly who have run out of math because they either didn't get into or didn't apply for TJ. That becomes far less likely under the current admissions process as advanced math students are dispersed back into their base school environments. Before too long, you will see Complex Analysis, Discrete Math, and other advanced topics become commonplace at base schools, which is a good thing for everyone as the population becomes more and more accelerated. It might only be one section at first, but it will exist.

McLean already has a large number of kids who have run out of math and need more advanced classes. McLean also has some of the highest achieving STEM kids in the state - Mclean's It's academic team and Math team are arguably on par with TJ's and a McLean Sr. has been the best or one of the best math students in the state the last 6 years. Yet, McLean hasn't adopted the complex analysis, etc... it's not due to lack of demand... I don't think FCPS has the supply of teachers to teach those courses. That's why TJ exists. And the former and present admissions process has/will denied many deserving McLean kids of these opportunities.

This. I don't necessarily feel that FCPS is obligated to place the most hyperaccelerated kids into TJ. They do, however, have an obligation to provide those kids with appropriate math courses. Admitting them to TJ would be the cheapest and logistically cheapest way to provide multiple years of post-AP math to the kids who need it. But, if instead FCPS wants to provide all of the post AP courses at McLean and Langley, as well as pay for any student to take courses at GMU if their school doesn't have appropriate offerings, that would be fine. Instead, FCPS seems to be rejecting kids like this from TJ, and then failing to provide appropriate math courses at the base school.

They have an obligation to provide an appropriate public education. They do not have an obligation to indulge parents who pushed their kids to take calc as sophomores.

Why are you so threatened by kids who are smarter and more motivated than your kid? That’s the only reason any rational person would oppose providing appropriate coursework for all students.

Rational people would realize that resources are finite and wouldn't support special classes for a couple of kids

The entire context here is that McLean and Langley now have a sufficient cohort to offer the classes. It's not for a couple kids. Rationally speaking, FCPS needs to provide 4 years of appropriate level high school math to all high school students. If the cohort at the base school is insufficient, then the kids should be admitted to TJ. If the cohort at the base school is sufficient, then the kids can receive services there.

That's guaranteed admission to TJ for anyone zoned to MVHS and even taking Algebra in 7th

Guaranteed admission to TJ isn't necessary. It is, however, necessary for FCPS to have some reasonable plan for the kids who will exceed the classes offered at their base school. For the kids who lack sufficient cohort, admission to TJ would be the cheapest and easiest plan. FCPS certainly could come up with alternate plans, like maybe extra academy programs or paying for university classes. For the schools that have a sufficient cohort, the additional classes should be offered there.

If you look at the number of kids taking post calculus math at MVHS, anyone on that track would lack a cohort at their base school. There are no universities near the eastern part of the county and there are no academies, so that leaves TJ

Wouldn't anyone on that track be in the IB program taking the IB math courses?

If there is a need for post AP math courses in the eastern part of the county and an insufficient cohort at each school, then it would make sense to open an academy program there. All kids should receive appropriate math instruction.

So you want to open an academy for less than 10 kids each year at MVHS? Talk about extraordinary lengths to keep kids out of TJ

No. I'm simply stating that FCPS needs to have a reasonable solution to provide appropriate math coursework to all students. Again, this was all in the context that FCPS is not admitting very advanced kids to TJ from McLean and Langley, and then not providing ample post-AP classes, even though they have enough qualified kids at the base school for the classes.

In the case of MVHS, if there are kids who need advanced coursework, but not enough to support a class, then FCPS needs a reasonable answer for that. The answer might be TJ. It might be an academy program at a nearby high school. It might be college classes. The point is that FCPS can't just shrug its shoulders and decide not to offer math classes for these kids for 12th grade.

I have no idea why you're trying to pick a fight over this. You're coming across as pretty crazy.

It's easy really. Just take classes at GMU after CalcBC. That's what I did 30 years ago.

It's not easy for the kids who lack transportation and the money to pay for GMU classes.

I did it and we weren't rich. I paid for it myself from my summer job earnings. Also had a 10-year-old used car for transport. My point is if education is a priority there's a way to make this work.

Good for you. By that logic, there's no need to provide free public education at all, since kids can just make it work on their own. In the real world, where public education is a right, there's no reason to deny kids access to proper mathematics courses and instead make them figure it out.

Let's not forget that the Harry Jacksons of the world are fairly explicitly trying to defund public schools in the name of using taxpayer dollars for "school choice".

It's a pretty efficient system:

1) Suck money away from public schools
2) Watch them suffer as a result
3) Claim that they're "ineffective"
4) Use that claim to justify further defunding
5) Pour taxpayer dollars into the pockets of businesses seeking to deliver education for profit
6) Lather, rinse, repeat