CYA and SYA merger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This epic merger of two mediocre clubs will take mediocrity to all new levels. Valor will be valiant at providing easy wins for the myriad better clubs , and the larger player pool will create many more opportunities for them to lose players to those clubs the second they show any symptom of above average ability

People seem to get so butt hurt by what other clubs do. I just don’t understand this mentality.

Serious question, you obviously have your kid in a club where you are happy. Exactly what does mocking or running another club down do for you? If your kid plays for a competing club I have news that may surprise you, your kid is at the same “mediocre” level as CYA/SYA.

I don't think he's butt hurt - at least he didn't come across that way to me. I don't know much about SYA, but I do know that CYA is a failing club. CYA is struggling because it has lost a lot of players. It lacks this base not for some fundamental reason tied to location or accessible market - it was a perfectly healthy club only four or five years ago - but because it does a lot of things wrong. I presume from some of the comments that SYA also has some problems. What this poster is saying is that merging two failing clubs doesn't magically create a successful club unless you also do something to solve the issues. I don't think CYA has even got to the stage where it can acknowledge what its issues are, so unless this is actually a takeover rather than a merger I see little hope of things getting better and suspect that the PP is correct - merging two failing clubs will just produce a larger club which will also fail for the same reasons the current ones do.

I don't agree. Will CYA/SYA ever be an elite club? No, but it doesn't have to be one either to be successful. There are lots of kids who just want to play competitively but who also have no ambition beyond local/regional leagues and playing in High School. A club that focuses on a tight geographic area can become a very successful club as long as it knows what it is and is not.

This is nice in theory, but I don't hink the new club will bill itself as that. That kind of thinking doesn't go far in Northern Virgina

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This epic merger of two mediocre clubs will take mediocrity to all new levels. Valor will be valiant at providing easy wins for the myriad better clubs , and the larger player pool will create many more opportunities for them to lose players to those clubs the second they show any symptom of above average ability

People seem to get so butt hurt by what other clubs do. I just don’t understand this mentality.

Serious question, you obviously have your kid in a club where you are happy. Exactly what does mocking or running another club down do for you? If your kid plays for a competing club I have news that may surprise you, your kid is at the same “mediocre” level as CYA/SYA.

I don't think he's butt hurt - at least he didn't come across that way to me. I don't know much about SYA, but I do know that CYA is a failing club. CYA is struggling because it has lost a lot of players. It lacks this base not for some fundamental reason tied to location or accessible market - it was a perfectly healthy club only four or five years ago - but because it does a lot of things wrong. I presume from some of the comments that SYA also has some problems. What this poster is saying is that merging two failing clubs doesn't magically create a successful club unless you also do something to solve the issues. I don't think CYA has even got to the stage where it can acknowledge what its issues are, so unless this is actually a takeover rather than a merger I see little hope of things getting better and suspect that the PP is correct - merging two failing clubs will just produce a larger club which will also fail for the same reasons the current ones do.

I don't agree. Will CYA/SYA ever be an elite club? No, but it doesn't have to be one either to be successful. There are lots of kids who just want to play competitively but who also have no ambition beyond local/regional leagues and playing in High School. A club that focuses on a tight geographic area can become a very successful club as long as it knows what it is and is not.

Well it is possible we don't agree - but your stated reason for disagreement was with something I didn't say.

I agree it is perfectly possible for a club to be successful without having an ambition to be elite. I didn't say that CYA is failing because it is not elite. CYA is failing it has substantial overheads and more customers are leaving than joining. More customers are leaving than joining because it is not providing a good customer experience.

I agree that it is perfectly possible to design a good customer experience around non-elite soccer. However CYA cannot just be a rec club - something it was (and maybe still is) actually quite good at - because it has a lot of debt which requires more revenue than the rec teams can generate. And so it must have quite a large travel program in order to distribute the cost of the debt across teams. And right now they are caught in a vicous circle. As the size of the travel program shrinks, the price goes up to cover the debt service which is spread among fewer and fewer players, and more people leave.

Unfortunately price is not the only reason people leave. The coaching is poor (not every coach and team of course, but on average it is not good), and the teams are frequently uncompetitive in the leagues they play in and in some cases they struggle to get eleven players on the field - often having to resort to letting players play for free in order to keep enough kids on the roster.

So I think my original point is still valid. If CYA does not address the problems it has with organization and coaching then this merger will not help. I agree the solution does not have to be becoming an "elite" club
and attracting the best players. But it does need to provide a good travel soccer product to its target market - whatever that is - something it currently fails to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This epic merger of two mediocre clubs will take mediocrity to all new levels. Valor will be valiant at providing easy wins for the myriad better clubs , and the larger player pool will create many more opportunities for them to lose players to those clubs the second they show any symptom of above average ability

People seem to get so butt hurt by what other clubs do. I just don’t understand this mentality.

Serious question, you obviously have your kid in a club where you are happy. Exactly what does mocking or running another club down do for you? If your kid plays for a competing club I have news that may surprise you, your kid is at the same “mediocre” level as CYA/SYA.

I don't think he's butt hurt - at least he didn't come across that way to me. I don't know much about SYA, but I do know that CYA is a failing club. CYA is struggling because it has lost a lot of players. It lacks this base not for some fundamental reason tied to location or accessible market - it was a perfectly healthy club only four or five years ago - but because it does a lot of things wrong. I presume from some of the comments that SYA also has some problems. What this poster is saying is that merging two failing clubs doesn't magically create a successful club unless you also do something to solve the issues. I don't think CYA has even got to the stage where it can acknowledge what its issues are, so unless this is actually a takeover rather than a merger I see little hope of things getting better and suspect that the PP is correct - merging two failing clubs will just produce a larger club which will also fail for the same reasons the current ones do.

I don't agree. Will CYA/SYA ever be an elite club? No, but it doesn't have to be one either to be successful. There are lots of kids who just want to play competitively but who also have no ambition beyond local/regional leagues and playing in High School. A club that focuses on a tight geographic area can become a very successful club as long as it knows what it is and is not.

Well it is possible we don't agree - but your stated reason for disagreement was with something I didn't say.

I agree it is perfectly possible for a club to be successful without having an ambition to be elite. I didn't say that CYA is failing because it is not elite. CYA is failing it has substantial overheads and more customers are leaving than joining. More customers are leaving than joining because it is not providing a good customer experience.

I agree that it is perfectly possible to design a good customer experience around non-elite soccer. However CYA cannot just be a rec club - something it was (and maybe still is) actually quite good at - because it has a lot of debt which requires more revenue than the rec teams can generate. And so it must have quite a large travel program in order to distribute the cost of the debt across teams. And right now they are caught in a vicous circle. As the size of the travel program shrinks, the price goes up to cover the debt service which is spread among fewer and fewer players, and more people leave.

Unfortunately price is not the only reason people leave. The coaching is poor (not every coach and team of course, but on average it is not good), and the teams are frequently uncompetitive in the leagues they play in and in some cases they struggle to get eleven players on the field - often having to resort to letting players play for free in order to keep enough kids on the roster.

So I think my original point is still valid. If CYA does not address the problems it has with organization and coaching then this merger will not help. I agree the solution does not have to be becoming an "elite" club
and attracting the best players. But it does need to provide a good travel soccer product to its target market - whatever that is - something it currently fails to do.

You keep saying CYA needs to address problems when the club has fundamentally changed. Isn't a merger with SYA an attempt at addressing both club weaknesses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This epic merger of two mediocre clubs will take mediocrity to all new levels. Valor will be valiant at providing easy wins for the myriad better clubs , and the larger player pool will create many more opportunities for them to lose players to those clubs the second they show any symptom of above average ability

People seem to get so butt hurt by what other clubs do. I just don’t understand this mentality.

Serious question, you obviously have your kid in a club where you are happy. Exactly what does mocking or running another club down do for you? If your kid plays for a competing club I have news that may surprise you, your kid is at the same “mediocre” level as CYA/SYA.

I don't think he's butt hurt - at least he didn't come across that way to me. I don't know much about SYA, but I do know that CYA is a failing club. CYA is struggling because it has lost a lot of players. It lacks this base not for some fundamental reason tied to location or accessible market - it was a perfectly healthy club only four or five years ago - but because it does a lot of things wrong. I presume from some of the comments that SYA also has some problems. What this poster is saying is that merging two failing clubs doesn't magically create a successful club unless you also do something to solve the issues. I don't think CYA has even got to the stage where it can acknowledge what its issues are, so unless this is actually a takeover rather than a merger I see little hope of things getting better and suspect that the PP is correct - merging two failing clubs will just produce a larger club which will also fail for the same reasons the current ones do.

I don't agree. Will CYA/SYA ever be an elite club? No, but it doesn't have to be one either to be successful. There are lots of kids who just want to play competitively but who also have no ambition beyond local/regional leagues and playing in High School. A club that focuses on a tight geographic area can become a very successful club as long as it knows what it is and is not.

Well it is possible we don't agree - but your stated reason for disagreement was with something I didn't say.

I agree it is perfectly possible for a club to be successful without having an ambition to be elite. I didn't say that CYA is failing because it is not elite. CYA is failing it has substantial overheads and more customers are leaving than joining. More customers are leaving than joining because it is not providing a good customer experience.

I agree that it is perfectly possible to design a good customer experience around non-elite soccer. However CYA cannot just be a rec club - something it was (and maybe still is) actually quite good at - because it has a lot of debt which requires more revenue than the rec teams can generate. And so it must have quite a large travel program in order to distribute the cost of the debt across teams. And right now they are caught in a vicous circle. As the size of the travel program shrinks, the price goes up to cover the debt service which is spread among fewer and fewer players, and more people leave.

Unfortunately price is not the only reason people leave. The coaching is poor (not every coach and team of course, but on average it is not good), and the teams are frequently uncompetitive in the leagues they play in and in some cases they struggle to get eleven players on the field - often having to resort to letting players play for free in order to keep enough kids on the roster.

So I think my original point is still valid. If CYA does not address the problems it has with organization and coaching then this merger will not help. I agree the solution does not have to be becoming an "elite" club
and attracting the best players. But it does need to provide a good travel soccer product to its target market - whatever that is - something it currently fails to do.

You keep saying CYA needs to address problems when the club has fundamentally changed. Isn't a merger with SYA an attempt at addressing both club weaknesses?

It appears to me more like an attempt to address the symptoms (not enough players) without addressing the causes of those symptoms. If I am correct then the combined club will continue to lose more customers than it gains. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

[Anonymous]

How many teams are they expecting to have in each age group?

[Anonymous]

Well it is possible we don't agree - but your stated reason for disagreement was with something I didn't say.

I agree it is perfectly possible for a club to be successful without having an ambition to be elite. I didn't say that CYA is failing because it is not elite. CYA is failing it has substantial overheads and more customers are leaving than joining. More customers are leaving than joining because it is not providing a good customer experience.

I agree that it is perfectly possible to design a good customer experience around non-elite soccer. However CYA cannot just be a rec club - something it was (and maybe still is) actually quite good at - because it has a lot of debt which requires more revenue than the rec teams can generate. And so it must have quite a large travel program in order to distribute the cost of the debt across teams. And right now they are caught in a vicous circle. As the size of the travel program shrinks, the price goes up to cover the debt service which is spread among fewer and fewer players, and more people leave.

Unfortunately price is not the only reason people leave. The coaching is poor (not every coach and team of course, but on average it is not good), and the teams are frequently uncompetitive in the leagues they play in and in some cases they struggle to get eleven players on the field - often having to resort to letting players play for free in order to keep enough kids on the roster.

So I think my original point is still valid. If CYA does not address the problems it has with organization and coaching then this merger will not help. I agree the solution does not have to be becoming an "elite" club
and attracting the best players. But it does need to provide a good travel soccer product to its target market - whatever that is - something it currently fails to do.


You keep saying CYA needs to address problems when the club has fundamentally changed. Isn't a merger with SYA an attempt at addressing both club weaknesses?

It appears to me more like an attempt to address the symptoms (not enough players) without addressing the causes of those symptoms. If I am correct then the combined club will continue to lose more customers than it gains. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

What's going on with the debt issue with CYA? Why do they as a travel soccer program carry more/less debt than any other travel program - I assume they permit fields and purchase uniforms etc. around the same level as other programs. Or is it the purchase of that fieldhouse that is really the problem? I thought that was more basketball than soccer but maybe they're spreading it across all sports?...

[Anonymous]

Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

Maybe because the person who decimated a strong soccer program is still holding a director position rendering the new valor thingy clinically dead before its inception?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

This is true - but travel soccer generates most of the revenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

This is true - but travel soccer generates most of the revenue.

This is not true in the big youth sports clubs. The rec programs are more profitable. 1000 kids playing rec soccer at $200/kid using volunteer coaches and practicing on school fields is a huge money-maker.

I'm curious as to how the financials with this Valor organization shake out. CYA has the fieldhouse, owned by CYA. SYA has the debt on its sports park. What portion of "Valor" revenue will go towards servicing the CYA and SYA debt? Since "Valor" will most likely use the fieldhouse and outdoor sports park soccer fields.... Is Valor going to pay rent to use those back to the CYA and SYA? Both clubs are used to commingling their rec and travel revenue AND field permits. These clubs use their large rec numbers to get more field space from the county, which they they distribute in their club. If CYA gets 10 turf fields based on their REC numbers, technically "Valor" shouldn't be using any of those fields. "Valor" has to apply and get fields based on its own numbers. Fairfax doesn't give priority to a travel group over a rec group with the field permitting. In practice, the large clubs use the rec numbers to get fields that they then usually redistribute mostly to travel practices and games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

This is true - but travel soccer generates most of the revenue.

This is not true in the big youth sports clubs. The rec programs are more profitable. 1000 kids playing rec soccer at $200/kid using volunteer coaches and practicing on school fields is a huge money-maker.

I'm curious as to how the financials with this Valor organization shake out. CYA has the fieldhouse, owned by CYA. SYA has the debt on its sports park. What portion of "Valor" revenue will go towards servicing the CYA and SYA debt? Since "Valor" will most likely use the fieldhouse and outdoor sports park soccer fields.... Is Valor going to pay rent to use those back to the CYA and SYA? Both clubs are used to commingling their rec and travel revenue AND field permits. These clubs use their large rec numbers to get more field space from the county, which they they distribute in their club. If CYA gets 10 turf fields based on their REC numbers, technically "Valor" shouldn't be using any of those fields. "Valor" has to apply and get fields based on its own numbers. Fairfax doesn't give priority to a travel group over a rec group with the field permitting. In practice, the large clubs use the rec numbers to get fields that they then usually redistribute mostly to travel practices and games.

this. Our club keeps rec and travel finances separate. Rec is entirely financially self sufficient - and we charge a lot less than $200 a kid

[Anonymous]

I volunteered for another large club for awhile and they commingled the rec and travel funds. A large and expensive rec program (and SYA and CYA are both expensive) financially props up travel and at least in Fairfax can be used to get better field space for the travel teams. For instance, every rec registration paid a turf field fee to Fairfax, but hardly any of the rec kids played games or practices on turf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Field house off 28 was several million dollars.

Yes - it's a big debt. However the debt is not the fundamental problem here, but it does limit the possible solutions because it prevents CYA deciding to be primarily a rec club for example. They have to run a commercially successful travel soccer program to pay for it.

The field house is a CYA thing and not a CYA soccer thing. CYA is a huge youth sports club. They provide basketball, track, lacrosse and more. The field house generates revenue by renting it out and providing a indoor space to all their sports.

Soccer is just a piece of the pie at CYA and everyone seems to be hung up on the soccer part.

This is true - but travel soccer generates most of the revenue.

This is not true in the big youth sports clubs. The rec programs are more profitable. 1000 kids playing rec soccer at $200/kid using volunteer coaches and practicing on school fields is a huge money-maker.

I'm curious as to how the financials with this Valor organization shake out. CYA has the fieldhouse, owned by CYA. SYA has the debt on its sports park. What portion of "Valor" revenue will go towards servicing the CYA and SYA debt? Since "Valor" will most likely use the fieldhouse and outdoor sports park soccer fields.... Is Valor going to pay rent to use those back to the CYA and SYA? Both clubs are used to commingling their rec and travel revenue AND field permits. These clubs use their large rec numbers to get more field space from the county, which they they distribute in their club. If CYA gets 10 turf fields based on their REC numbers, technically "Valor" shouldn't be using any of those fields. "Valor" has to apply and get fields based on its own numbers. Fairfax doesn't give priority to a travel group over a rec group with the field permitting. In practice, the large clubs use the rec numbers to get fields that they then usually redistribute mostly to travel practices and games.

I'm neither the treasurer nor a board member of any youth soccer club - so you may well know more than me - but I was under the strong impression (gleaned from people in those positions) that travel was much more profitable than rec. I never asked too many detailed questions - so perhaps I misunderstood what I was being told...

On your second point - doesn't CYA have some kind of rights to Sully? I'm pretty sure that, although the land belongs to the county, they paid for some or all of the fields construction in return for usage rights....?