Elite universities, Ivy Plus/Equivalents...

[Anonymous]

Penn is considered prestigious? When I was applying to schools it was considered a commuter school on the brink of insolvency. And it had terrible name recognition, maybe the worst in the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Penn is considered prestigious? When I was applying to schools it was considered a commuter school on the brink of insolvency. And it had terrible name recognition, maybe the worst in the Ivy League.

Eh, you’re thinking of non-Wharton Penn. Wharton has always been very prestigious. People used to jokingly say they should just spin off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

For the millionth time: Dartmouth is a university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College

If you are uninformed about facts how can your opinion be informed?

If it needs additional explanation, its prestige is already in question.

Either that or the person just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Which do you think is more likely?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

For the millionth time: Dartmouth is a university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College

If you are uninformed about facts how can your opinion be informed?

If it needs additional explanation, its prestige is already in question.

Either that or the person just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Which do you think is more likely?

Let me first preface that I have no affiliation with any of the schools in the OP or with the Ivy League. I’m also not the PP who mentioned Dartmouth. I keep a close eye on higher education because I have quite a few friends in academia and working in university administration. Here’s my take...

It’s no secret that Dartmouth administration has been flailing for the last couple of decades due to its late-onset realization that it’s being left in the dust by its peers that are much more robust research universities. It’s always sort of had one foot in the “university” door and one foot in the “small liberal arts college” door, and it has caused a lot of shuffling, infighting and angst among administrators and alumni. This kind of soul-searching will not be resolved any time soon. Coupled with the college’s enduring reputation as a haven for douchey fratty types; the wider, growing trend in preferences for urban/suburban schools; and a relatively small endowment, Dartmouth is not in an enviable place. I’m not bullish on the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

Eh methinks thou doth protest too much. The Ivies are falling out of fashion. Give it another 10 years or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

IS this about general population or HR and hiring managers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

IS this about general population or HR and hiring managers?

It's neither. This is literally delusions of grandeur manifested as deep-seated insecurity. One can't diss Chicago, of all places, and seriously think Providence, Philadelphia or New Haven are possibly superior locales. And that's just scratching the surface of what's wrong about this dimwitted tirade.

HR and hiring managers know the value of a degree, Ivy or not, and perceptions from the general population vary depending on geography, vocation, and preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

Eh methinks thou doth protest too much. The Ivies are falling out of fashion. Give it another 10 years or so.

both posts are equally asinine. Ivy League schools aren't going anywhere AND other schools are just as good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

Eh methinks thou doth protest too much. The Ivies are falling out of fashion. Give it another 10 years or so.

both posts are equally asinine. Ivy League schools aren't going anywhere AND other schools are just as good.

Uh... one post is significantly more asinine than the other one. Namely, the one that's bragging about parents asking him/her "how they did it." Gag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, only strivers on the outside looking in think or pretend tier twos are on the cusp of elite. The truly elite have history, traditions, patina, they offer status, a tightknit network, they have a distinct vibe and ethos that can not be replicated at the inferior wannabes, and their alums aren't ever confused for nitwit state school grads. When parents hear your child is at an Ivy, Stanford or MIT they're intrigued, they wanna know how you did it, who they're dating, what they're studying, who they're rubbing elbows with. Nobody freakin' cares about your kid tailgating in Nashville or dodging snowstorms in a purple hoodie in boring suburban Cook County or dodging armed robberies in dreary south side Chicago or dusting off Newt Gingrich's dissertation in Atlanta. The tier twos are full of smart kids, sure, but smart workerbees are a dime a dozen. Truly impressive difference makers go to truly impressive schools – they and their families won't settle for anything less. Maybe they don't get into Harvard but they do get into Penn or MIT or Brown, of course. The more you desperate strivers keep this up the more pathetic and insecure you look. Look, your child got into a good school – be proud, but please cease this whole pretending you know anything about the Ivy League charade. You don't know what you don't know, you do not comprehend what your child is missing out on. And the reality is no hiring committee has ever said "we must hire that Emory/UChicago/Rice/Northwestern/Vandy candidate!" It's actually laughable to think those schools pop off any CV. Most people haven't even heard of the tier twos, and if they have, they don't really care about them. Just the honest truth.

Eh methinks thou doth protest too much. The Ivies are falling out of fashion. Give it another 10 years or so.

both posts are equally asinine. Ivy League schools aren't going anywhere AND other schools are just as good.

Uh... one post is significantly more asinine than the other one. Namely, the one that's bragging about parents asking him/her "how they did it." Gag.

Really, Ivy League schools being out of fashion in 10 years isn't asinine? They're both stupid.

[Anonymous]

NP. Strange thing is that the list of schools in the OP are not even novel. Everyone knows these are schools that go head to head with the Ivy League. Not sure why posters are getting so twisted up about it.

[Anonymous]

These are widely-regarded tiers for undergraduate prestige.

AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Columbia
AAA- : UChicago, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, Caltech
AAA : Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, Hopkins
AAA- : Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UNC, Rice, WashU

...and many more! Enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These are widely-regarded tiers for undergraduate prestige.

AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Columbia
AAA- : UChicago, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, Caltech
AAA : Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, Hopkins
AAA- : Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UNC, Rice, WashU

...and many more! Enjoy.

Copying and pasting you own post doesn't make it widely regarded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are widely-regarded tiers for undergraduate prestige.

AAA+: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Columbia
AAA- : UChicago, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, Caltech
AAA : Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, Hopkins
AAA- : Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UNC, Rice, WashU

...and many more! Enjoy.

Copying and pasting you own post doesn't make it widely regarded.

Haha howdy there, good seeing you from the JHU thread! Enjoy, and have a nice day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

For the millionth time: Dartmouth is a university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College

If you are uninformed about facts how can your opinion be informed?

If it needs additional explanation, its prestige is already in question.

Either that or the person just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Which do you think is more likely?

Let me first preface that I have no affiliation with any of the schools in the OP or with the Ivy League. I’m also not the PP who mentioned Dartmouth. I keep a close eye on higher education because I have quite a few friends in academia and working in university administration. Here’s my take...

It’s no secret that Dartmouth administration has been flailing for the last couple of decades due to its late-onset realization that it’s being left in the dust by its peers that are much more robust research universities. It’s always sort of had one foot in the “university” door and one foot in the “small liberal arts college” door, and it has caused a lot of shuffling, infighting and angst among administrators and alumni. This kind of soul-searching will not be resolved any time soon. Coupled with the college’s enduring reputation as a haven for douchey fratty types; the wider, growing trend in preferences for urban/suburban schools; and a relatively small endowment, Dartmouth is not in an enviable place. I’m not bullish on the school.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. Dartmouth could call itself "Dartmouth International Space Station for Wayward Girls" if it wanted to. It uses the name "college" as its primary to communicate its position as a place that focuses on undergraduate teaching. It doesn't change the fact that it is again an R1 research university, one of a very small percentage meeting that 3rd-party qualification.

As for Dartmouth and other Ivy League Schools "falling out of favor" (different poster): you are also entitled to your own opinion, but the data certainly indicates the exact opposite. I'll go by the data as I form my opinion on the topic.