Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

No, it's not. The Christian religious holiday is celebrated using the supposedly "secular" elements. Unless there's some way you can inform kids: we're making Christmas tree ornaments, but this has nothing to do with Christ's birth AT ALL! there's no way to distinguish the impact in schools.

Your education has failed you if you think that red nosed reindeers and magical elves are in any way Christian

What are they used to celebrate? Christmas. Not Elf Day. Not Reindeer Day. Not even Santa Day. They celebrate **CHRISTMAS**. Which has a specific religious meaning, even if an individual celebrator may not be Christian. And in any event, I call shenanigans on everyone claiming that "Christmas is secular." Although it is to some, not to the majority. http://www.pewforum.org/2017/12/12/americans-say-religious-aspects-of-christmas-are-declining-in-public-life/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. If a Christmas tree, Santa, and the elf’s are all secular, then why do the Chanukah presents not get put around the tree? Why does Santa not bring Hanukkah presents? Why isn’t there wrapping paper showing Santa lighting the menorah? I’m jewish so I know my holiday but I also don’t see Santa associated with Kwanza.

I

[Anonymous]

Where is this? And, who planned the activities?

It sucks to always have to do the work yourself, but I know when I am room mom I really take care to make all the activities really winter as opposed to "secular" Christmas.

I think some people mean well and they just are really blinded and honestly think Ruloph, etc. is not religious even though it is really Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is that scary? Many of the elements of the celebration of “Christmas” have been in around since before Christianity existed. The secular winter holiday celebration was incorporated into the celebration of the birth of Jesus, but did not have anything to do with Christianity. Lots of non Christians celebrate a secular Christmas, and have lots of fun doing so.

Christmas is only a religious celebration to those who are religious.

There may be secular aspects of how Christmas is celebrated and certain people may choose to celebrate it in a secular way, but it remains a fundamentally Christian holiday. And what happened 2,000 years ago is irrelevant at this point as the meaning of various activities can shift overtime. If something has come to be associated with a religious event, it is a religious symbol even if it may have had secular roots millenniums ago. Do you really think everything is static and imeaning and interpretation can't change over time, particularly such a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. If a Christmas tree, Santa, and the elf’s are all secular, then why do the Chanukah presents not get put around the tree? Why does Santa not bring Hanukkah presents? Why isn’t there wrapping paper showing Santa lighting the menorah? I’m jewish so I know my holiday but I also don’t see Santa associated with Kwanza.

I

Those are funny, and likely cater to interfaith families. But do you really think finding some random kitsch for sale online refutes or responds to PP's points?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. If a Christmas tree, Santa, and the elf’s are all secular, then why do the Chanukah presents not get put around the tree? Why does Santa not bring Hanukkah presents? Why isn’t there wrapping paper showing Santa lighting the menorah? I’m jewish so I know my holiday but I also don’t see Santa associated with Kwanza.

I

Those are funny, and likely cater to interfaith families. But do you really think finding some random kitsch for sale online refutes or responds to PP's points?

I do not believe your read her post that I quoted

[Anonymous]

It's secular if you want it to be.

It can be. You can choose not to have your panties in a wad over it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. If a Christmas tree, Santa, and the elf’s are all secular, then why do the Chanukah presents not get put around the tree? Why does Santa not bring Hanukkah presents? Why isn’t there wrapping paper showing Santa lighting the menorah? I’m jewish so I know my holiday but I also don’t see Santa associated with Kwanza.

I

Those are funny, and likely cater to interfaith families. But do you really think finding some random kitsch for sale online refutes or responds to PP's points?

I do not believe your read her post that I quoted

I did. Mazel Tov, you found some random Santa/Hanukkah smashup somewhere on line. You can find almost anything for sale online; that doesn't mean the concept is remotely prevelant. Santa still is not associated with Hanukkah presents, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. If a Christmas tree, Santa, and the elf’s are all secular, then why do the Chanukah presents not get put around the tree? Why does Santa not bring Hanukkah presents? Why isn’t there wrapping paper showing Santa lighting the menorah? I’m jewish so I know my holiday but I also don’t see Santa associated with Kwanza.

For the same reason ghosts and goblins and witches don't bring presents. Different holidays have different trappings.

Kwanza is a separate observance from Christmas. The families I know who celebrate Kwanza also celebrate Christmas, but they are distinct holidays. St. Nick fills shoes with stuff on Saint Nicholas Day, not Santa. And they're even theoretically the same person-symbol-idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

+1

It’s secular to everyone in my family and to many of our friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's secular if you want it to be.

It can be. You can choose not to have your panties in a wad over it

Whether or not it's secular is besides the point. It's a tradition closely associated with one cultural group.

To spend a month celebrating one group, and a minute on the other, is offensive. It would be offensive if public schools had a policy of only reading books about, and giving math problems that featured boys with no mention of girls. And it's offensive to celebrate the cultural traditions (secular OR religious) of one group, and not others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

Well, OP never said her daughter's school was telling every Christian story and doing constant Christmas activities. She listed about a half dozen activities, and all but the Nativity were secular and not Christian.

Hannukah is 8 nights. I would be perfectly fine with the schools doing an activity for each of those days to teach the kids about the history of Hanukah, maybe science lessons about candles vs the different oils that can be used for light, decorating a Menorah coloring sheet, learning about the driedel, etc. Most Christians would be fine with this. After all, Jesus was a Jew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is a cultural American holiday separate from being a Christian religious holiday.

It is really scary to me how many people seem to believe this.

Why is it scary?

I'm not religious. My family and I celebrate Christmas. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, talk about Wisemen. We don't have an advent calendar or candles, which are religious. We don't go to Christmas mass. We have a tree and give presents. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Just like at Halloween, we are celebrating a cultural holiday. We are not pagan, we are not observing Smahain.

Do you think when we're celebrating Halloween we're also celebrating a religious holiday?

But you are still celebrating a holiday that's associated with one ethnic group over another.

There are families who celebrate Hanukkah secularly. They light candles, and give presents, and eat gelt and jelly donuts, and don't talk about the miracle etc . . . Would it be OK if the school decorated every worksheet, and read every story about Hanukkah, and got the kids all excited about it for a month, and skipped Christmas altogether? No, because it would be valuing one culture over another.

I believe that families celebrate Hanukkah secularly.

I don't find it scary.

I want "It is really scary" pp to explain why it's scary that people celebrate certain things secularly. That's what I posted about. I, and other people, have addressed prioritizing one celebration over another in other posts.

So, "It is really scary" pp, please answer. Hanukkah PP above might also be interested in you weighing in if it's scary that people believe they celebrate secular Hanukkah.