Why is there such a racial/ethnic disconnect with TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Here is the way to actually increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ:

Eliminate essays, teacher recommendations and SIS. Only people with money and SAHM will benefit from having these.

Essay: There are expensive programs that teach either one on one or in small groups exactly how to ace the essay. These are quite expensive (run by whites not the ones run by Chinese or Koreans which are mostly ineffective) and only benefit ones with lot of money. Certainly will not help most blacks or Hispanic. It is unfair for these groups.

Teacher recommendations: Those with money and families with SAHM will benefit. Teachers tend to be close and appreciative of SAHM coming to school to volunteer regularly and give presents on a regular basis. Definitely does not help blacks or Hispanics.

SIS: Family needs SAHM to give rides to various places and spend money to go to programs, prepare for competitions and contests etc. Definite disadvantage to those that lack money or do not have SAHM. Eliminating this will help blacks, Hispanics.

Eliminating the above will level the playing field and increase blacks and Hispanics into TJ and also reduce the chance of admitting weak students and also reduce the chance of rejecting strong students just because the family lacked funds or SAHM to build up SIS resume, build relationships with teachers (for recommendation letters) or attend elite and expensive essay prep program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the way to actually increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ:

Eliminate essays, teacher recommendations and SIS. Only people with money and SAHM will benefit from having these.

Essay: There are expensive programs that teach either one on one or in small groups exactly how to ace the essay. These are quite expensive (run by whites not the ones run by Chinese or Koreans which are mostly ineffective) and only benefit ones with lot of money. Certainly will not help most blacks or Hispanic. It is unfair for these groups.

Teacher recommendations: Those with money and families with SAHM will benefit. Teachers tend to be close and appreciative of SAHM coming to school to volunteer regularly and give presents on a regular basis. Definitely does not help blacks or Hispanics.

SIS: Family needs SAHM to give rides to various places and spend money to go to programs, prepare for competitions and contests etc. Definite disadvantage to those that lack money or do not have SAHM. Eliminating this will help blacks, Hispanics.

Eliminating the above will level the playing field and increase blacks and Hispanics into TJ and also reduce the chance of admitting weak students and also reduce the chance of rejecting strong students just because the family lacked funds or SAHM to build up SIS resume, build relationships with teachers (for recommendation letters) or attend elite and expensive essay prep program.

I'm pretty sure all those things you want eliminated were added to help black and Hispanic admissions. If they just went on test scores and grades the admission rates for those groups would like be even lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the way to actually increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ:

Eliminate essays, teacher recommendations and SIS. Only people with money and SAHM will benefit from having these.

Essay: There are expensive programs that teach either one on one or in small groups exactly how to ace the essay. These are quite expensive (run by whites not the ones run by Chinese or Koreans which are mostly ineffective) and only benefit ones with lot of money. Certainly will not help most blacks or Hispanic. It is unfair for these groups.

Teacher recommendations: Those with money and families with SAHM will benefit. Teachers tend to be close and appreciative of SAHM coming to school to volunteer regularly and give presents on a regular basis. Definitely does not help blacks or Hispanics.

SIS: Family needs SAHM to give rides to various places and spend money to go to programs, prepare for competitions and contests etc. Definite disadvantage to those that lack money or do not have SAHM. Eliminating this will help blacks, Hispanics.

Eliminating the above will level the playing field and increase blacks and Hispanics into TJ and also reduce the chance of admitting weak students and also reduce the chance of rejecting strong students just because the family lacked funds or SAHM to build up SIS resume, build relationships with teachers (for recommendation letters) or attend elite and expensive essay prep program.

I'm pretty sure all those things you want eliminated were added to help black and Hispanic admissions. If they just went on test scores and grades the admission rates for those groups would like be even lower.

likely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

But it is illegal to turn away qualified students to make an ethnic mix that does not match that of the county where the school is located.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

Non-Asians can't compete against Asian students based on criteria that were established by predominantly non-Asians and so they now complain about the tests and other criteria being unfair and rigged![/quote]

Actually, not true. I see the cauc kids standing back waiting for the Asians to catch up.

[Anonymous]

It really ought to be up to county residents as a whole to decide if we want to continue to operate TJ in its current form. Whether the current admissions standards are "fair" assumes TJ should remain a magnet and the only question is who goes there. In fact, it's outlived its original purpose and can be put to alternative, superior uses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe so, but 99+% of white people would not be part of this category either. The majority of people of any race are earning a living through hard work, not wealth and connections.

One of the issues that people tend to forget is that nationally the Asian minority is still only about 4% of the general population. 10% of the Asian population is still less then 1% of the white population. By raw numbers instead of percentages, there are still more Caucasians applying to TJ than Asians applying to TJ, but a greater percentage of Asians get accepted than Caucasians. By comparison a larger number of Caucasians total are being admitted than Asians. I just warn people to be cautious about throwing around percentages because sometimes when you look at percentages it skews the perceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

But it is illegal to turn away qualified students to make an ethnic mix that does not match that of the county where the school is located.

There is no requirement that the composition of a specialized academic program match the ethnicity of the county in which the school is located, any more than the basketball team has to have a certain percentage of Asians and Whites because of their proportion of the student body.

As for "turning away" qualified students, if they don't apply they can't get in. Nobody is stopping them from applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe so, but 99+% of white people would not be part of this category either. The majority of people of any race are earning a living through hard work, not wealth and connections.

One of the issues that people tend to forget is that nationally the Asian minority is still only about 4% of the general population. 10% of the Asian population is still less then 1% of the white population. By raw numbers instead of percentages, there are still more Caucasians applying to TJ than Asians applying to TJ, but a greater percentage of Asians get accepted than Caucasians. By comparison a larger number of Caucasians total are being admitted than Asians. I just warn people to be cautious about throwing around percentages because sometimes when you look at percentages it skews the perceptions.

That sounds great, but is completely incorrect. If you call Indians Asians, it is about 70%. 15% Caucasian in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe so, but 99+% of white people would not be part of this category either. The majority of people of any race are earning a living through hard work, not wealth and connections.

One of the issues that people tend to forget is that nationally the Asian minority is still only about 4% of the general population. 10% of the Asian population is still less then 1% of the white population. By raw numbers instead of percentages, there are still more Caucasians applying to TJ than Asians applying to TJ, but a greater percentage of Asians get accepted than Caucasians. By comparison a larger number of Caucasians total are being admitted than Asians. I just warn people to be cautious about throwing around percentages because sometimes when you look at percentages it skews the perceptions.

The point above was simply that very, very few people have over 20 million in assets and the connections to get their kids into any college or job, whether they are white, black, Asian, Hispanic, or purple, so I don't see that as a reason for one group as a whole to have to work harder to get into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because one group studies in their free time while the other watches TV or plays computer games.

in a nutshell, this is it.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

But it is illegal to turn away qualified students to make an ethnic mix that does not match that of the county where the school is located.

Do you want to cite the applicable law or regulation that requires an ethnic mix that matches the county where the school is located or are you just making up crap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because one group studies in their free time while the other watches TV or plays computer games.

in a nutshell, this is it.

+1000

You do realize that "groups" are not so easily generalized, right? Kids who study a lot also play computer games and, gasp, watch TV, and kids who play computer games also study. Kids are kids and they all need to do lots of different things. Any kid who only studies or only plays computer games will have a tough time in life. Kids who are involved in a variety of activities will have a better outlook on life and are likely to be more successful in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe so, but 99+% of white people would not be part of this category either. The majority of people of any race are earning a living through hard work, not wealth and connections.

One of the issues that people tend to forget is that nationally the Asian minority is still only about 4% of the general population. 10% of the Asian population is still less then 1% of the white population. By raw numbers instead of percentages, there are still more Caucasians applying to TJ than Asians applying to TJ, but a greater percentage of Asians get accepted than Caucasians. By comparison a larger number of Caucasians total are being admitted than Asians. I just warn people to be cautious about throwing around percentages because sometimes when you look at percentages it skews the perceptions.

No. There are more Asians both applying and getting admitted to TJ than whites, and the percentage of Asian applicants admitted is much higher. Interest among white students in TJ has declined quite rapidly in recent years. It's not that they are disinterested in math/science, but they simply don't want to play the TJ game, which is heavily stacked in favor of those whose parents come from countries where the parents demand that pre-teens channel all their energies into getting into the "right" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

But it is illegal to turn away qualified students to make an ethnic mix that does not match that of the county where the school is located.

There is no requirement that the composition of a specialized academic program match the ethnicity of the county in which the school is located, any more than the basketball team has to have a certain percentage of Asians and Whites because of their proportion of the student body.
As for "turning away" qualified students, if they don't apply they can't get in. Nobody is stopping them from applying.

Other than that it is illegal and discriminatory. Many students who are qualified do not get in.