Why is there such a racial/ethnic disconnect with TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

^ good try Mr. Lee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wrong. FCPS has asked participating jurisdictions to pay a corresponding share of the renovation costs over 30 years and the surrounding jurisdictions all agreed to pay this over this period. Therefore, fcps has committed to operating TJ as a regional governor's school for at least next 30 years and it is collecting these costs each year. Therefore, no, fcps cannot unilaterally terminate TJ as a regional governor's school. Sorry to bust your bubble.

In addition, TJ's renovation plan was specifically designed by architects as a science and technology governor's school with special facilities, features and equipments for regional students with STEM aptitude and base school kids will not even know what these equipments are used for anyway let alone actually use them. Furthermore, fcps will never let go of their crown jewel and lose all of their top students to another jurisdiction many of which are eager to develop full time STEM magnet school and they would love to take over TJ in the highly unlikely event fcps decided not to operate TJ. FCPS in general will certainly go down in stature, test scores etc. in addition to losing the best high school in the country so that ain't happening. Above posting is not very factual and not very well-informed response.

FCPS wanted other jurisdictions to pay more money, and sooner, too. The other jurisdictions refused because they know TJ is ultimately Fairfax's school and they want to preserve the ability to pull out of TJ without having tied their own hands through capital commitments. Staggering support payments over a 30-year period is more of a "pay as you go" model that preserves everyone's options, including those of FCPS.

Your suggestion that base school kids could never know how to use equipment that was specially designed for TJ is precisely the type of tone-deaf arrogance that may seal TJ's fate. The current TJ crowd is arrogant, unabashedly elitist, and increasingly despised by others in the county. Calling TJ the "crown jewel" in FCPS is similarly tone-deaf. FCPS is not a state-wide university system, and TJ is not Berkeley. Other secondary school systems do fine treating all their schools as important and not singling out one school as their "crown jewels."

Similarly, the claim that FCPS would lose "all of their top students" without TJ is ridiculous on its face. TJ doesn't have all of FCPS's top students today, so the county certainly wouldn't lose those students if TJ ceased to be a magnet. Of course, without TJ as a magnet, some of educational carpetbaggers might return to other jurisdictions or go back to their home countries, but most of TJ's students would return to their base schools. There are plenty of high achievers at schools in MCPS like Whitman and Wootton.

As to whether returning TJ to neighborhood status would reduce FCPS's "stature," perhaps in the eyes of some, but not others. Some families might move to other jurisdictions. Others might be more likely to move to, or remain in, Fairfax if they saw that FCPS was moving away from a model where there is a huge emphasis on AAP programs starting early in elementary school, progressing to middle-school students anxiously worrying about getting into TJ and arrogant TJ families claiming that students at other schools don't function on anything approaching the same level as TJ kids. They might also conclude that, without a "crown jewel" to serve as a PR crutch, FCPS would be forced to address the needs of all its students.

All the options should be on the table when it comes to TJ's future.

+3

What I find most shocking from TJ discussion is the level of arrogance from TJ students and the parents. It is undoubtedly off the chart.

How dare those Asians at TJ act like they are smarter than us whites. Only whites are entitled to act smart and entitled.

I think your analogies are missing the mark.

However, since you apparently want to go there, please provide examples from the 1980s or 1990s where TJ parents and students spoke about themselves and others in language similar to the PP (base school kids wouldn't have a clue what to do with our fancy equipment; we're the "crown jewel" of FCPS; if we don't get what we want, we'll pick up our marbles and leave; without us, you're nothing, etc.). This does appear to be a recent, and not particularly welcome, phenomenon.

I have no qualms about coming to the conclusion that, if that's the mindset of those associated with TJ, I am in favor of defunding their playground and returning TJ's to its original purpose. Just imagine the boost it would be for that part of the county to have a renovated neighborhood high school.

[Anonymous]

The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

In fact, this argument - and the companion argument that any opposition to TJ's continued operation as a magnet is a blow to academic excellence - have been around for a long time. Just hint that you might prefer that TJ function as a neighborhood school and you will be called anti-Asian, anti-Semitic, and anti-education by the FCAG crowd and their appointed leaders.

TJHSST is not Harvard, nor is it a Chevy Chase country club. It was an experiment at its inception, and it has been around for less than 30 years. It is entirely appropriate for FCPS parents and taxpayers to periodically reassess the impact that a magnet school like TJ has on FCPS as a whole, and to feel free to do so without being intimidated by a powerful lobby that has no qualms about putting its own interests first and telling others how lazy and unmotivated they are, all while curling up into a ball and crying racism when it is convenient to do so.

My assumption is that PP knows how damning posts like 00:55's are, in terms of conveying a negative image of TJ parents as arrogant and out-of-touch, so he's tried to reframe the debate. It's a nice try, but it's right out of a very familiar playbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

In fact, this argument - and the companion argument that any opposition to TJ's continued operation as a magnet is a blow to academic excellence - have been around for a long time. Just hint that you might prefer that TJ function as a neighborhood school and you will be called anti-Asian, anti-Semitic, and anti-education by the FCAG crowd and their appointed leaders.

TJHSST is not Harvard, nor is it a Chevy Chase country club. It was an experiment at its inception, and it has been around for less than 30 years. It is entirely appropriate for FCPS parents and taxpayers to periodically reassess the impact that a magnet school like TJ has on FCPS as a whole, and to feel free to do so without being intimidated by a powerful lobby that has no qualms about putting its own interests first and telling others how lazy and unmotivated they are, all while curling up into a ball and crying racism when it is convenient to do so.

My assumption is that PP knows how damning posts like 00:55's are, in terms of conveying a negative image of TJ parents as arrogant and out-of-touch, so he's tried to reframe the debate. It's a nice try, but it's right out of a very familiar playbook.

You can wish for TJ to close all you want but it will not be closed for decades. Dream on racist.

[Anonymous]

There are too many DC biglaw partners' kids that have either graduated from TJ in the past or are attending TJ so it will be almost impossible to close TJ. Don't forget that TJ was 50% white not too long ago and it is still about 27% whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

In fact, this argument - and the companion argument that any opposition to TJ's continued operation as a magnet is a blow to academic excellence - have been around for a long time. Just hint that you might prefer that TJ function as a neighborhood school and you will be called anti-Asian, anti-Semitic, and anti-education by the FCAG crowd and their appointed leaders.

TJHSST is not Harvard, nor is it a Chevy Chase country club. It was an experiment at its inception, and it has been around for less than 30 years. It is entirely appropriate for FCPS parents and taxpayers to periodically reassess the impact that a magnet school like TJ has on FCPS as a whole, and to feel free to do so without being intimidated by a powerful lobby that has no qualms about putting its own interests first and telling others how lazy and unmotivated they are, all while curling up into a ball and crying racism when it is convenient to do so.

My assumption is that PP knows how damning posts like 00:55's are, in terms of conveying a negative image of TJ parents as arrogant and out-of-touch, so he's tried to reframe the debate. It's a nice try, but it's right out of a very familiar playbook.

Few observations:

1. This accusation of alleged "arrogance" of TJ kids is similar to accusations of AAP kids being "arrogant" or thinking they are smarter than general ed students. Nothing new here and this shouldn't be limited to Asians.

2. Nothing wrong with assessing or re-assessing educational services but your sour grapes attitude is not going to fly since there is a growing demand for even more of a magnet high school like TJ in Fairfax for "Humanities". People want more magnet high school not less so your smoke screen argument of let's try to elevate all schools (by shutting down TJ since it's you know too Asian) is actually not that pervasive except for a relatively few racist plebeians like you.

3. Nothing damning about saying typical high school students would not know what all the fancy equipments are or know how to use them since that is true. It's not demeaning, it's just a fact. Even TJ students may not know what they are or properly operate them without having taken various Post-AP courses to prepare them to work with these machines and equipments. However, how many in the base school would be willing to take biology, AP biology, AP chemistry, neuroscience, DNA science, organic chemistry in order to go into biotech lab and conduct research by end of junior year? That is just one example. How many base school students would be willing to take computer science, AP computer science, Artificial Intelligence, Parallel Computing, Multivariable calculus, Linear Algebra by junior year in order to go into computer systems lab to conduct research using computers in the computer lab? Not many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

In fact, this argument - and the companion argument that any opposition to TJ's continued operation as a magnet is a blow to academic excellence - have been around for a long time. Just hint that you might prefer that TJ function as a neighborhood school and you will be called anti-Asian, anti-Semitic, and anti-education by the FCAG crowd and their appointed leaders.

TJHSST is not Harvard, nor is it a Chevy Chase country club. It was an experiment at its inception, and it has been around for less than 30 years. It is entirely appropriate for FCPS parents and taxpayers to periodically reassess the impact that a magnet school like TJ has on FCPS as a whole, and to feel free to do so without being intimidated by a powerful lobby that has no qualms about putting its own interests first and telling others how lazy and unmotivated they are, all while curling up into a ball and crying racism when it is convenient to do so.

My assumption is that PP knows how damning posts like 00:55's are, in terms of conveying a negative image of TJ parents as arrogant and out-of-touch, so he's tried to reframe the debate. It's a nice try, but it's right out of a very familiar playbook.

You can wish for TJ to close all you want but it will not be closed for decades. Dream on racist.

Because you say so? I'm awed by the intellectual firepower you bring to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are too many DC biglaw partners' kids that have either graduated from TJ in the past or are attending TJ so it will be almost impossible to close TJ. Don't forget that TJ was 50% white not too long ago and it is still about 27% whites.

One non-sequitur followed by another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overt and covert animosity towards Asians by whites apparent in this discussion, in the context of TJ, is not a new phenomenon.

The US has had a long history of such discrimination against groups that don't fit the mold that is deemed acceptable to whites. Asians are now undergoing what the Jews did in the early part of the last century.

This article offers insight as to how whites changed the ground rules to limit the number of Jews getting into the best colleges and especially the Ivies. It was done under the guise of what is now called the holistic admissions process but the intention was to limit the number of Jews.

After affirmative action came into play the same holistic approach was used to justify admissions of certain minorities. Today it is used to limit the number of Asians who would make up a much larger portion of the student population at the Ivies and other select schools if admission were based purely on merit.

What we are seeing now with regard to ways to limit admission of Asians to TJ is just more of the same. Multiple rationalizations are used in the process but what it really boils down to is that some whites resent the number of Asians who are being admitted into TJ. So we see an attempt to change the ground rules ........ and if that won't achieve the objective, then let us just shut down TJ in its present form.

This article is a must read for how this is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection

In fact, this argument - and the companion argument that any opposition to TJ's continued operation as a magnet is a blow to academic excellence - have been around for a long time. Just hint that you might prefer that TJ function as a neighborhood school and you will be called anti-Asian, anti-Semitic, and anti-education by the FCAG crowd and their appointed leaders.

TJHSST is not Harvard, nor is it a Chevy Chase country club. It was an experiment at its inception, and it has been around for less than 30 years. It is entirely appropriate for FCPS parents and taxpayers to periodically reassess the impact that a magnet school like TJ has on FCPS as a whole, and to feel free to do so without being intimidated by a powerful lobby that has no qualms about putting its own interests first and telling others how lazy and unmotivated they are, all while curling up into a ball and crying racism when it is convenient to do so.

My assumption is that PP knows how damning posts like 00:55's are, in terms of conveying a negative image of TJ parents as arrogant and out-of-touch, so he's tried to reframe the debate. It's a nice try, but it's right out of a very familiar playbook.

You should advocate eliminating the AAP first before advocating for TJ. Where is your hostility towards AAP? Is your kid still in the AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Few observations:

1. This accusation of alleged "arrogance" of TJ kids is similar to accusations of AAP kids being "arrogant" or thinking they are smarter than general ed students. Nothing new here and this shouldn't be limited to Asians.

2. Nothing wrong with assessing or re-assessing educational services but your sour grapes attitude is not going to fly since there is a growing demand for even more of a magnet high school like TJ in Fairfax for "Humanities". People want more magnet high school not less so your smoke screen argument of let's try to elevate all schools (by shutting down TJ since it's you know too Asian) is actually not that pervasive except for a relatively few racist plebeians like you.

3. Nothing damning about saying typical high school students would not know what all the fancy equipments are or know how to use them since that is true. It's not demeaning, it's just a fact. Even TJ students may not know what they are or properly operate them without having taken various Post-AP courses to prepare them to work with these machines and equipments. However, how many in the base school would be willing to take biology, AP biology, AP chemistry, neuroscience, DNA science, organic chemistry in order to go into biotech lab and conduct research by end of junior year? That is just one example. How many base school students would be willing to take computer science, AP computer science, Artificial Intelligence, Parallel Computing, Multivariable calculus, Linear Algebra by junior year in order to go into computer systems lab to conduct research using computers in the computer lab? Not many.

1. I have not once ascribed the arrogance, which is not simply theoretical, but has been abundantly in display on these threads and in recent incidents, to Asians in my posts. All I can imagine here is that there is either some stereotyping on your part, or perhaps a guilty conscience.

2. Your comment here is another variation on the all-too-familiar tactic of trying to stifle any criticisms of TJ by bandying about terms like "sour grapes." It really is incredibly stale. As to the demand for a magnet humanities high school, it exists in certain quarters, but there are many more parents who are tired of the stratification that FCPS has been taking to new extremes. It starts with the mammoth AAP programs in elementary and middle schools and reaches its pinnacle with TJ. If you think that this is not a major factor in the decision of many parents to live in Arlington and Loudoun rather than Fairfax, you are very mistaken.

3. This is yet another indication as to how dismissive you are as to the academic abilities and aspirations of students who don't go to TJ. Please tell me how many TJ students have taken all these courses by the time they graduate from HS. There is no good reason why state-of-the-art equipment should not be available to every student in the county who might benefit from access to such resources. You imply that such equipment incentivizes TJ students to take courses that will enable them to conduct such resources, but what inducements are provided to the other 95% of the students in the county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Does anyone else NOT feel comfortable with the racism and hatred by Asians on this thread?

Why come here if you hate the whites so much? I could not imagine moving someplace, using them for their schools and jobs, and hating them in return. Who do you think will employ us Asians?

Why did come here if you hated American Indians (the real Americans) so much so that you had to murder them all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wrong. FCPS has asked participating jurisdictions to pay a corresponding share of the renovation costs over 30 years and the surrounding jurisdictions all agreed to pay this over this period. Therefore, fcps has committed to operating TJ as a regional governor's school for at least next 30 years and it is collecting these costs each year. Therefore, no, fcps cannot unilaterally terminate TJ as a regional governor's school. Sorry to bust your bubble.

In addition, TJ's renovation plan was specifically designed by architects as a science and technology governor's school with special facilities, features and equipments for regional students with STEM aptitude and base school kids will not even know what these equipments are used for anyway let alone actually use them. Furthermore, fcps will never let go of their crown jewel and lose all of their top students to another jurisdiction many of which are eager to develop full time STEM magnet school and they would love to take over TJ in the highly unlikely event fcps decided not to operate TJ. FCPS in general will certainly go down in stature, test scores etc. in addition to losing the best high school in the country so that ain't happening. Above posting is not very factual and not very well-informed response.

FCPS wanted other jurisdictions to pay more money, and sooner, too. The other jurisdictions refused because they know TJ is ultimately Fairfax's school and they want to preserve the ability to pull out of TJ without having tied their own hands through capital commitments. Staggering support payments over a 30-year period is more of a "pay as you go" model that preserves everyone's options, including those of FCPS.

Your suggestion that base school kids could never know how to use equipment that was specially designed for TJ is precisely the type of tone-deaf arrogance that may seal TJ's fate. The current TJ crowd is arrogant, unabashedly elitist, and increasingly despised by others in the county. Calling TJ the "crown jewel" in FCPS is similarly tone-deaf. FCPS is not a state-wide university system, and TJ is not Berkeley. Other secondary school systems do fine treating all their schools as important and not singling out one school as their "crown jewels."

Similarly, the claim that FCPS would lose "all of their top students" without TJ is ridiculous on its face. TJ doesn't have all of FCPS's top students today, so the county certainly wouldn't lose those students if TJ ceased to be a magnet. Of course, without TJ as a magnet, some of educational carpetbaggers might return to other jurisdictions or go back to their home countries, but most of TJ's students would return to their base schools. There are plenty of high achievers at schools in MCPS like Whitman and Wootton.

As to whether returning TJ to neighborhood status would reduce FCPS's "stature," perhaps in the eyes of some, but not others. Some families might move to other jurisdictions. Others might be more likely to move to, or remain in, Fairfax if they saw that FCPS was moving away from a model where there is a huge emphasis on AAP programs starting early in elementary school, progressing to middle-school students anxiously worrying about getting into TJ and arrogant TJ families claiming that students at other schools don't function on anything approaching the same level as TJ kids. They might also conclude that, without a "crown jewel" to serve as a PR crutch, FCPS would be forced to address the needs of all its students.

All the options should be on the table when it comes to TJ's future.

+3

What I find most shocking from TJ discussion is the level of arrogance from TJ students and the parents. It is undoubtedly off the chart.

How dare those Asians at TJ act like they are smarter than us whites. Only whites are entitled to act smart and entitled.

+1
The most arrogant people in this world are whites and they don't care if you are bothered or not.

[Anonymous]

^ I think this is the same TJ kid (I assume) who keeps posting the same stupid posts. Don't you have homework to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ I think this is the same TJ kid (I assume) who keeps posting the same stupid posts. Don't you have homework to do?

Answer my question!
Why did your ancestors come to this land if they hated American Indians so much? And why did they murder them all?