Why is there such a racial/ethnic disconnect with TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

TJ is an educational market rigged in favor of high-frequency testers. The funny thing is that even the Tiger kids are losing interest in the place, with fewer applications every year.

True, but what that has to do with the racial/ethnic "disconnect" in TJ admissions is unclear to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the Asians are more "qualified" to get into TJ as currently constituted. Let's take a look at the damaging impact that operating TJ as a magnet has on minority students in overcrowded schools in eastern Fairfax, the record of denying admission to qualified non-Asian minorities, the subjectivity at work in the current admissions process that favors Asians who are familiar with gaming the system in other countries, and the advantages that TJ provides its students over those at other schools. The discrimination must end, and the school should be returned to its original use as a neighborhood school ASAP.

mega bullshit. The minorities don't even apply. You can't admit people who don't apply.

You're pretty stupid. The non-Asian minority kids in TJ's old neighborhood get bounced around from one overcrowded school to another, so that other children can attend a school that's getting a multi-million dollar renovation to look like a faux U. Va. Of course, there aren't many applications from non-Asian minorities. They see who gets in. After a while banging your head against the brick wall stops being fun.

you're still flogging that dead horse? If they want in they can apply -- nothing is stopping them. Again, case dismissed.

Not your decision, asshat.

who are you talking to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

if they felt they had 20 million in assets and personally knew at least dozen people in "positions of power" to hire their kids for internships/gain admission to elite college as "developmental case"/offer cushy jobs after college etc.

You know that very few people of any race or background have these advantages?

The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white.

Maybe so, but 99+% of white people would not be part of this category either. The majority of people of any race are earning a living through hard work, not wealth and connections.

[Anonymous]

Endless rationalizations about why there is a predominance of Asians at TJ.

The reasons are simple: Asian kids take their studies seriously and seek to excel so that they can get ahead. Their parents are very involved in the whole process and have the same goal - that their children should excel. The same holds true when it comes to college. Academic excellence is emphasized by Asian parents and it does not matter what socio-economic group they belong because they know the key to achieving success is through academic performance.

So you have Asians who came here with literally nothing whose children do very well even though their parents may work at jobs that are menial labor.

Schools like TJ are viewed as extraordinary opportunities to achieve those academic goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Endless rationalizations about why there is a predominance of Asians at TJ.

The reasons are simple: Asian kids take their studies seriously and seek to excel so that they can get ahead.

...At any cost, including gaming the system and cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Endless rationalizations about why there is a predominance of Asians at TJ.

The reasons are simple: Asian kids take their studies seriously and seek to excel so that they can get ahead. Their parents are very involved in the whole process and have the same goal - that their children should excel. The same holds true when it comes to college. Academic excellence is emphasized by Asian parents and it does not matter what socio-economic group they belong because they know the key to achieving success is through academic performance.

So you have Asians who came here with literally nothing whose children do very well even though their parents may work at jobs that are menial labor.

Schools like TJ are viewed as extraordinary opportunities to achieve those academic goals.

+1
That's also hold true for the working class incomes in the US. Asian averagely have higher education, and making more money.
On the other hand, if you look at the top private schools in DC or NYC or Boston, that's totally different story. In this country, white forks still control the wealth

[Anonymous]

folks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

Non-Asians can't compete against Asian students based on criteria that were established by predominantly non-Asians and so they now complain about the tests and other criteria being unfair and rigged!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is illegal to discriminate in employment.
It is illegal to discriminate in housing.
It is not illegal to discriminate in admission to a special advanced academic program within the public school system. It's based on merit. Yes that will discriminate against the less advanced. Not illegal.

That is why what is happening with TJ admission is illegal. Many of the Asain students there are not really qualified for TJ. They just crammed the test. Also HUGE number of mixed race kids. The students talk about it all the time : Blaision, Wasain, Fasion, Haole you name it.

it is not illegal to cram for a test or admit students with high test scores.

Non-Asians can't compete against Asian students based on criteria that were established by predominantly non-Asians and so they now complain about the tests and other criteria being unfair and rigged!

sad to say but true. That's about the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

This from PP is very true and sad:

" The non-Asian minority kids in TJ's old neighborhood get bounced around from one overcrowded school to another, so that other children can attend a school that's getting a multi-million dollar renovation to look like a faux U. Va. Of course, there aren't many applications from non-Asian minorities. They see who gets in. After a while banging your head against the brick wall stops being fun."

Unfortunately, I don't know what the answer is.

I do think whether it's TJ or perhaps AAP, a lawsuit that would open up the entire screening process to the public -- who gets in and who doesn't -- is long overdue. Frankly, I suspect TJ would come out fine. In AAP, however, FCPS might have problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This from PP is very true and sad:

" The non-Asian minority kids in TJ's old neighborhood get bounced around from one overcrowded school to another, so that other children can attend a school that's getting a multi-million dollar renovation to look like a faux U. Va. Of course, there aren't many applications from non-Asian minorities. They see who gets in. After a while banging your head against the brick wall stops being fun."

Unfortunately, I don't know what the answer is.

I do think whether it's TJ or perhaps AAP, a lawsuit that would open up the entire screening process to the public -- who gets in and who doesn't -- is long overdue. Frankly, I suspect TJ would come out fine. In AAP, however, FCPS might have problems.

sorry but you are wrong. A student is entitled to an appropriate level of education, the are not entitled to inclusion in the gifted class. AAP would come out fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

if they felt they had 20 million in assets and personally knew at least dozen people in "positions of power" to hire their kids for internships/gain admission to elite college as "developmental case"/offer cushy jobs after college etc.

You know that very few people of any race or background have these advantages?

The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white. Since people love to cite disproportionately small % of blacks/Hispanics at TJ compared to their % of population, what about disproportionately small % of Asians who qualify for this criteria of upper class with money and connections despite hard work and study for decades? Work hard, study hard and you can achieve anything in America. Isn't that the American dream? Why is low numbers of blacks/Hispanic in magnet schools such a dire problem discussed almost at every chance with lawsuits and complaints being filed and politicians tripping over themselves to appear politically correct while myriad of discrimination against Asians are ignored? They are not just ignored they are almost condemned if they even dare to raise the issues such as reverse discrimination of Asian Americans in college Admissions, employment discrimination of Asian Americans, almost universal negative portrayal of Asian Americans in pop culture (Movies, TV etc.) and media, discrimination against Asians in Hollywood, entertainment industry etc. Basically, Asian Americans are forced into technical field such as STEM since there is less discrimination in those fields and there are less blacks/Hispanic who are coveted and less whites since many whites prefer more diverse jobs. It is not necessarily because Asians are born with some sort of STEM genes and love to study calculus and physics more than other races. I suspect vast majority of whites screaming about lack of blacks/Hispanics at TJ will qualify as the upper class whites comfortable enough so that they have many options in life; they can send their children to privates if they wanted so no need to sweat for TJ, no problem with college tuition since full pay is no issue etc. etc. You really don't know how it is until you actually experience something yourself. At least blacks.Hispanics have sufficient political clout to have their issues out in public. Asians don't even have that. Society will be judged by how they treat their weakest.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just politicians and judges and teachers at TJ. What about police officers, they should be 16% Asians. I think it's about 1 or 2% Asian. What about the county employees, they should be representative of the Asian population of the county and be 16% not 2 or 3%. What about all the employees that work at the Gatehouse? They should be 16% Asians. It's outrageous there is such a disproportionate gap in virtually everything except for a place where semi-meritocracy is practiced. If this is not a demonstrable evidence of disparate impact I don't know what is. There should be an immediate Complaint filed with the Civil Rights Division of the US Justice Department alleging racial discrimination alleging wide spread and pervasive discrimination.

Why is discrimination against Asian Americans ok and acceptable. Why shouldn't there be proportional representation of Asians in all facets of life? Why is over presentation of Asian (magnet school) always a problem (especially if Asians have no say in the matter and 0 influence in policy making) but under presentation is never a problem? Why the double standard?

In fact, the admission process was changed several times to increase blacks/Hispanics at TJ:

It was originally purely based on test scores and GPA from the beginning to 2006
In 2007, the process changed to "holistic" review with essays, teacher recs and SIS (subjective components) added to make the process subjective and allow admissions office wiggle room to admit more blacks/Hispanics. (This led to weaker math/science students being admitted and ultimately led to the 2011-2012 teacher protest regarding weak math students being admitted and remediation issue)
It was changed again and the different components were given designated weight in 2010 with subjective components making up 65-75% depending on how you derive the weight to further increase blacks/Hispanics
It was changed again in 2013 to make the process "holistic review" once again since ALL the tinkering to reduce Asians and increase blacks/Hispanic were not working adequately. Also, non-math/science grades were considered in the final selection (change from before) to further try to reduce Asians and increase non-Asians.

Guess what would happen if we went back to the ORIGINAL admissions process of only using test scores and GPAs. We would have more stronger students but we would also have more Asians. That's the problem.