UVA President resigns under pressure

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DEI is not just about admissions. All students learn from the diverse experiences of their classmates, roommates, professors. I grew up overseas, and had never met a Jewish person until I went to college here in the States. Both of us learned about our experiences. Being exposed to diverse populations makes you into a better professional.



No doubt, but the issue isn't whether a diverse student population has some benefits, but whether it takes an unethically and illegal discriminatory thumb on the admission scale to achieve it. A Jewish person with a suitable GPA and test scores should be admitted without their Jewishness being an enhancing or detracting factor, and someone who is not Jewish but with the same credentials should not be denied admission for failing to be Jewish.


Sure, then most prestigious universities will be majority Asian and female. I am ok with that.


They would not be majority asian. They would be about 40%-50% asian. Probably about the even with whites.

And top schools would have fewer women. At the far right hand side of the curve, there are a lot more men than women.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


We are not other countries, we are this country.


If you only care about merit, then nothing beyond performance on a standardized exam required of all students and/or GPA should matter.


WTF! So dumb. I’m sure the felon score a cool 1600. Why is there such a logic fail with MAGA?


He almost certainly did not. What's the point?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:Mediocre white students, especially males, hate being around excellence.


Huh? How does giving a boost to someone purely because of the color of their skin make them "excellent"? Removing DEI means that no one gets in based on their race, but ONLY due to their qualifications. Of course, Democrats are dead set against merit ONLY admissions. Makes sense.


People, people! How many times does this have to be explained?! White women have statistically been the biggest beneficiaries of DEI policies. Yes, shocking and sad. That means that DEI includes everyone in the US except for cis, able-bodied white men.

It was created because that small minority of Americans had (and in most cases) have an outsized representation in all facets of academia, business, government, etc. it was created BECAUSE merit didn’t exist, and we’re seeing with this admin, who cut all the women generals and fired people of color that they hate women and POC and LGBTQ and veterans and people with any kind of disability.

This is petty, vindictive, and an overreach of state’s rights. Stand up or watch your own rights be eroded, unless you are a cis, able bodied white man (and there are fortunately a decent amount of them finally speaking up).


Women benefitted from affirmative action (as it was originally conceived), not DEI.

Women were admitted into all male schools DEPITE being women, not BECAUSE they were women.
Underqualified white women were not admitted over more qualified men.
Women were allowed to compete in areas where they were not previously allowed.

I ask no favor for my sex, all I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks. - RBG


Now that women are outnumbering men on most campuses, many less qualified men are being admitted BECAUSE they’re men to keep the balance somewhat in check.


I don't know where people are getting this idea that there is some pronounced preference for male students. Especially at the top end. The harvard lawsuit provided a lot of data and which gender do you think had the higher standardized test scores? I'll give you a hint:

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

There's about 10% more women applying yo college than there are men and this is causing a mismatch in the applicant pool as you get further down the rankings but it's not happening at the top. You probably dont see any effect within Ivy+


“But the easiest way for many competitive schools to fix their gender ratios lies in the selection process, at which point admissions officers often informally privilege male applicants, a tendency that critics say amounts to affirmative action for men.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/magazine/men-college-enrollment.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


What about oversea Asian students? They have way better test score vs white America men(and Asian Americans).


You mean that one that takes all of the tests. I've heard their English. It's not that good.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm an Asian female and despise DEI. That being said, I despise Trump and his admin even more!

To me, DEI as a concept is wrong. Merit has to come first. Always. A person will succeed but it has to be on their efforts not because they are white or black or yellow or whatever. DEI is an insult to anyone who has any self respect and most people who are condoning it are white who think they know why it's important. I've never met a self respecting minority who wholly embraces DEI because they would not be judged on their merits but many of course love that they don't need to be and that's why it can exist.

I don't agree either with Miller's ilk pushing this in a manner that's strong arming those in leadership. It ought to be a debated policy change. I don't think it hurts whites as much as it's unfair to them and unfair to anyone who cares about merit. But taking down this policy isn't about ordering it, rather needs to be a process that isn't based on fear tactics.



I agree with the bolded. The precedent that has been set in terms of government overreach and use of fear tactics is what bothers me the most about this case.

On the DEI issue, if you are Asian then at some point in time someone in your family line came from a largely homogenous Asian country. My roots are in a super homogenous European country where university admission is entirely based on performance on a single annual university entry exam--and nothing else. That's probably also the case in the Asian country(its) your relatives came from. But the US's experience is very different. It is a country of immigrants and has a history of forced migration (slavery), so it is very different than more homogenous countries that haven't had this experience. Can you understand why the approach here might be different and why addressing differences in access to employment, college admission, etc. may be necessary in such a heterogenous society?


It has been over 150 years since the emancipation of slaves.
It has been over 50 years since the civil rights movement.
Immigrants frequently come to this country with little to nothing and achieve success.
I don't know of many other places in this world where this is true.
So, no I do not understand why there have to be racial preferences that mostly help african and Caribbean immigrants over the descendants of slaves and help hispanics more frequently than the asians they used to lynch.


Why, then, does the following wage gap exist between WHITE MEN and the following categories of people?

Women (overall): 83 cents (17% gap)

White women: 83 cents (17% gap)

Black women: 70 cents (30% gap)

Hispanic women: 65 cents (35% gap)

Asian women: 93 cents (7% gap)

Black men: 73 cents (27% gap)

Hispanic men: 69 cents (31% gap)



Do Asian men exist in your world?

When comparing like to like there is a small but real pay gap but let's not pretend that women who mostly major in things that won't earn money should make as much as men that major in things specifically because they make money should somehow end up being paid the same amount of money.

Also lets not pretend that populations with higher college graduation rates from rigorous majors should be making as much as populations with lower college graduation rates from rigorous majors.


Oh you fool Asian men make more than white men. That's why they weren't listed in the above post. And a wage Gap you utter tool of a human is when you're comparing two people who do the same work.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I guarantee you that regardless of how poor or how limited resources you have, a person ambitious for success will find a way to achieve it. DEI or not I say this as someone who is a minority with immigrant parents who owns her own business. What we should do in the education front is find a way to take out the demographic piece altogether and simply judge on merit. If it's 90% non minorities who are the top 10% of the class so be it. You simply can't let someone else in just because they aren't white if they couldn't find a way to be up there. This is why this country really is failing. You can't limit anyone - not minorities but why would you limit white kids either? Simply because they are white? You have to work. Doesn't matter about anything else - you find a path for success. It's 100% doable if you commit. My whole childhood was a nightmare and I did it and I know many more who did too. The old boys network exists because it's a cultural decision. I worked in a field dominated by this and DEI doesn't make it better. You change it from the inside out. If the guys won't let me in as a female telling them they have to does not change their minds. Only I can impress them by my talents. And if I can't, I can't. Better to find another world where my efforts are appreciated. But allowing me entrance into a male dominated field doesn't do it - me breaking in and changing their minds so they see why it's right and better to let women in - that is effective and the right kind of change. That's called buy-in and there's many ways of achieving that over DEI policies which essentially is reverse discrimination. It's to rid people of guilt and take an easier path to change. Great in the beginning maybe but ultimately it's not lasting.


So you are saying meritocracy doesn't really exist... If it truly does, then you wouldn't need to go out of your way to "impress".

As a fellow immigrant, I will have to say this is an incredibly naive take. The avoidance approach makes you part of the systemic effort to exclude and oppress based on whatever criteria the power at be choose. This unfortunately is how the model immigrants have learned to cope and survive in this country. We first try to work hard to prove our worth, then to try hard to impress, when we are told we simply are cut out for the C-suites or whatever, we kowtow and retreat to carve a space in the corner where it doesn't pose a threat.

One thing you said I agree, the old boys network is a culture decision. Then we need to break that, not allow it to fester and continue onwards. DEI, while not perfectly executed all the time everywhere, is an attempt. Now that attempt is being forcefully ended. So will the world be better with or without it? or do you rather continue to be ignored and dismissed by the way the old boys network?

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