UVA President resigns under pressure

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


We are not other countries, we are this country.


If you only care about merit, then nothing beyond performance on a standardized exam required of all students and/or GPA should matter.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DEI is not just about admissions. All students learn from the diverse experiences of their classmates, roommates, professors. I grew up overseas, and had never met a Jewish person until I went to college here in the States. Both of us learned about our experiences. Being exposed to diverse populations makes you into a better professional.



No doubt, but the issue isn't whether a diverse student population has some benefits, but whether it takes an unethically and illegal discriminatory thumb on the admission scale to achieve it. A Jewish person with a suitable GPA and test scores should be admitted without their Jewishness being an enhancing or detracting factor, and someone who is not Jewish but with the same credentials should not be denied admission for failing to be Jewish.


Sure, then most prestigious universities will be majority Asian and female. I am ok with that.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:UVA overall is a very conservative school. I didn't find anything this president did to be "woke" or "liberal" at all?


You're wrong though. It's not considered a conservative school, much less "very conservative." It's considered centrist. It's really telling that a balanced school is now considered exactly the same as Hillsdale or Liberty.


I went there. Did you?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


We are not other countries, we are this country.


If you only care about merit, then nothing beyond performance on a standardized exam required of all students and/or GPA should matter.


WTF! So dumb. I’m sure the felon score a cool 1600. Why is there such a logic fail with MAGA?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


We are not other countries, we are this country.


If you only care about merit, then nothing beyond performance on a standardized exam required of all students and/or GPA should matter.


I’m okay with this. And I say this as someone who has one kid with Cs and even a D from freshman year. I think the made up volunteer hours and EC fluff has gotten out of control too.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:DEI is not just about admissions. All students learn from the diverse experiences of their classmates, roommates, professors. I grew up overseas, and had never met a Jewish person until I went to college here in the States. Both of us learned about our experiences. Being exposed to diverse populations makes you into a better professional.

When affirmative action came up at the Supreme Court, universities provided no evidence backing up that statement.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Stop lying. You are scared that if a TRUE merit system is in place, white people won't have the only seats at the table. Oh you poor, poor, unqualified white people.


So many in this thread live in bizarro world.

DEI is not based on merit.
Correct. This is what DEI means: we will not hire primarily based upon merit, experience, or education but by gender (female), sexuality (LGBTQ), and ethnicity (non-White). This is because of our perceived injustices in the past; therefore, in our wisdom, two wrongs actually do make a right.



DEI is actually the exact opposite, that’s why Rs oppose it. Rs prefer a system of legacy admits and preferences for white males.


And why would asians want a preference for white males? Or legacies?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The white leftist profs at UVA Law School, where Ryan and his ex provost graduated in early/mid 90’s, would defend affirmative action by saying if there were no such policy, there would be less than 3 blacks a year in the law school class and they didn’t believe that was “fair.” (They didn’t even mention Latino back then - the only reason they started to use it in the last 15 years was to give cover to the blacks who were the only intended beneficiaries of the policy.) Today, most people are just fine with less than 3 blacks (or even, gasp, 0) in the graduating class of UVA Law, including me.


This white lady is not fine with that.

You're not most people white lady.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


Because they can be a very distinguishing factor. A kid with an unweighted 4.0. Who does nothing but study is very different than a kid with an unweighted 4.0 who worked 20 hours a week to make money for the family or a kid who trained for an Olympic sport 40+ hours a week and still got the 4.0. Or maybe a kid had a very relevant EC or an exceptional EC. It also helps the schools get a feel for the kids and how they might participate in the school community and whether they are a fit. My decidedly unintellectual kid would hate Chicago, whereas my intellectually curious one would thrive there, but their grades and scores may not make that obvious.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DEI is not just about admissions. All students learn from the diverse experiences of their classmates, roommates, professors. I grew up overseas, and had never met a Jewish person until I went to college here in the States. Both of us learned about our experiences. Being exposed to diverse populations makes you into a better professional.

When affirmative action came up at the Supreme Court, universities provided no evidence backing up that statement.


Grok disagrees with you:

The claim that universities “provided no evidence” to support the claim that exposure to diverse populations makes one a better professional is inaccurate. In the Students for Fair Admissions (SFFA) cases, universities presented evidence, including social science research, amicus briefs from business and military leaders, and institutional data, to argue that diversity in education yields benefits, including professional ones. While the Supreme Court ruled against race-based admissions, it did so on the grounds that the policies were not narrowly tailored and used overly broad racial categories, not because no evidence was provided.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mediocre white students, especially males, hate being around excellence.


Huh? How does giving a boost to someone purely because of the color of their skin make them "excellent"? Removing DEI means that no one gets in based on their race, but ONLY due to their qualifications. Of course, Democrats are dead set against merit ONLY admissions. Makes sense.


People, people! How many times does this have to be explained?! White women have statistically been the biggest beneficiaries of DEI policies. Yes, shocking and sad. That means that DEI includes everyone in the US except for cis, able-bodied white men.

It was created because that small minority of Americans had (and in most cases) have an outsized representation in all facets of academia, business, government, etc. it was created BECAUSE merit didn’t exist, and we’re seeing with this admin, who cut all the women generals and fired people of color that they hate women and POC and LGBTQ and veterans and people with any kind of disability.

This is petty, vindictive, and an overreach of state’s rights. Stand up or watch your own rights be eroded, unless you are a cis, able bodied white man (and there are fortunately a decent amount of them finally speaking up).


Women benefitted from affirmative action (as it was originally conceived), not DEI.

Women were admitted into all male schools DEPITE being women, not BECAUSE they were women.
Underqualified white women were not admitted over more qualified men.
Women were allowed to compete in areas where they were not previously allowed.

I ask no favor for my sex, all I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks. - RBG


Now that women are outnumbering men on most campuses, many less qualified men are being admitted BECAUSE they’re men to keep the balance somewhat in check.


I don't know where people are getting this idea that there is some pronounced preference for male students. Especially at the top end. The harvard lawsuit provided a lot of data and which gender do you think had the higher standardized test scores? I'll give you a hint:

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

There's about 10% more women applying yo college than there are men and this is causing a mismatch in the applicant pool as you get further down the rankings but it's not happening at the top. You probably dont see any effect within Ivy+
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm an Asian female and despise DEI. That being said, I despise Trump and his admin even more!

To me, DEI as a concept is wrong. Merit has to come first. Always. A person will succeed but it has to be on their efforts not because they are white or black or yellow or whatever. DEI is an insult to anyone who has any self respect and most people who are condoning it are white who think they know why it's important. I've never met a self respecting minority who wholly embraces DEI because they would not be judged on their merits but many of course love that they don't need to be and that's why it can exist.

I don't agree either with Miller's ilk pushing this in a manner that's strong arming those in leadership. It ought to be a debated policy change. I don't think it hurts whites as much as it's unfair to them and unfair to anyone who cares about merit. But taking down this policy isn't about ordering it, rather needs to be a process that isn't based on fear tactics.



I agree with the bolded. The precedent that has been set in terms of government overreach and use of fear tactics is what bothers me the most about this case.

On the DEI issue, if you are Asian then at some point in time someone in your family line came from a largely homogenous Asian country. My roots are in a super homogenous European country where university admission is entirely based on performance on a single annual university entry exam--and nothing else. That's probably also the case in the Asian country(its) your relatives came from. But the US's experience is very different. It is a country of immigrants and has a history of forced migration (slavery), so it is very different than more homogenous countries that haven't had this experience. Can you understand why the approach here might be different and why addressing differences in access to employment, college admission, etc. may be necessary in such a heterogenous society?


It has been over 150 years since the emancipation of slaves.
It has been over 50 years since the civil rights movement.
Immigrants frequently come to this country with little to nothing and achieve success.
I don't know of many other places in this world where this is true.
So, no I do not understand why there have to be racial preferences that mostly help african and Caribbean immigrants over the descendants of slaves and help hispanics more frequently than the asians they used to lynch.


Why, then, does the following wage gap exist between WHITE MEN and the following categories of people?

Women (overall): 83 cents (17% gap)

White women: 83 cents (17% gap)

Black women: 70 cents (30% gap)

Hispanic women: 65 cents (35% gap)

Asian women: 93 cents (7% gap)

Black men: 73 cents (27% gap)

Hispanic men: 69 cents (31% gap)



Do Asian men exist in your world?

When comparing like to like there is a small but real pay gap but let's not pretend that women who mostly major in things that won't earn money should make as much as men that major in things specifically because they make money should somehow end up being paid the same amount of money.

Also lets not pretend that populations with higher college graduation rates from rigorous majors should be making as much as populations with lower college graduation rates from rigorous majors.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:UVA is going to get an earful from me the next time they call asking for money.

Signed, an extremely disappointed alum.

It's usually some work study student. Just send a letter.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:DEI is not just about admissions. All students learn from the diverse experiences of their classmates, roommates, professors. I grew up overseas, and had never met a Jewish person until I went to college here in the States. Both of us learned about our experiences. Being exposed to diverse populations makes you into a better professional.



Generations of students at the top colleges have noticed what research has confirmed. The students at the bottom of the class are are more likely to be URM. Sure there are URM kids at spread throughout the class but there is a high concentration of URM kids at the bottom of the class.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From trump because of DEI. Bastards! Why do they hate this much?

https://apnews.com/article/university-of-virginia-dei-james-ryan-6f8cfc43738944ca8164ab20814c5695


Because its a violation of our civil rights laws. Omg, why can't you guys get it? We arent going to make it legal to discriminate against white people and Asians. Okay? Give it up.


Its because of discrimination and the abundance of medicore white guys that making the process fair was needed. But I guess MAGA wants to return to the days when people like JD Vance and Clarence Thomas would never be accepted to elite universities.


If white men have an average SAT score and GPA that is higher than black men, but the white men are “mediocre white guys” in your mind, then what does that make black men? Logically it’s not good.


A higher SAT average doesn't make the white men any smarter, or worthier to attend these institutions than the POCs who have the brains but no access to the resources (legacy being one of the resources) those "mediocre white guys" are born into.

As for us Asians, the revenge of the mediocre white guys is just a matter of time.


DP. You're aware that UVA (and most other schools) have done away with legacy admissions too, right? Why are you against merit-based admissions?


Fear of rejection based on merit.


DP. Just as DEI has no agreed upon definition, merit increasingly doesn’t either.


Grades, rigor of classes taken, standardized test scores, extra curricular activities, work history


Go back to this. Weight work and extra curricular evenly. Stop the essays unless they're proctored.


Why not just drop the extra-curricular and work history as well? They are not required in other countries.


We are not other countries, we are this country.


Do you feel this way about universal health care and gun control as well?
Who cares what the rest fo the worlds does, we do it the American way!
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